Choosing between these HK international schools

[NewFamilyInHK]

Hello!

We are moving to HK next year and after UK curriculum and I know school places are like gold dust. We have done so so so much research and poured through all available media, but ultimately I know it's a personal choice.

I roughly have a gut feel and know the overall pro and cons, but for those of you that know the school or have children that is there / have been there, can you help challenge my thought process?

This is such a huge decision so any extra points of views will be really really appreciated.

Thanks so much in advance!

ESF - it's cheap, but classes seem a bit bigger. The students appear very local so concern is that our child would feel the odd one out not knowing Cantonese.

Shrewsbury - brand new, great facilities including a pool, and in a relatively new area with new apartment blocks. The major concern is whether our boy might fall behind / not be as great in English if a large majority of students speak Cantonese at home (even if they do speak English and teachers are English, the playground is where language gets picked up).

French International School - we are not french but they have an international stream which seems pretty decent. No idea about the french way of teaching though so that will be the big unknown.

Kellett - this seems like a popular choice with expats. But feels like academically they are just like a normal UK state school? And no idea if the kids are well behaved or not or whether it's particularly rowdy compared to the other 3 schools

I can pm you if you wish to know more information about these schools.

Your child would probably be fine at all those schools. Do you have offers? All international schools are required to admit 70% overseas passport holders (more in some cases), but realistically most will be dual nationals. Even so, the playground language of all these schools is generally English, so you don't need to worry about your child not knowing Cantonese.

ESF: These schools follow the IB Primary Years Programme, not English national curriculum, which has its pros and cons. As you probably know, there is a large network of ESF schools and each one has its own character. Class sizes are larger than at most other international schools.

FIS: The primary school is strong academically and a similar price point to ESF (although it also has a debenture system). It follows the English National Curriculum for maths and English, plus IPC for science, history etc. Classes are smaller than ESF and have a good mix of nationalities. The French stream is entirely separate from the International Stream, except for weekly 'shared projects' (gardening, sports etc.), so your child won't experience the 'french way of teaching' except possibly in French language classes. A downside is that your child won't learn much Chinese, as the second language is French.

Shrewsbury and Kellett: I don't have any personal experience of these schools, but I haven't heard of any negatives, nor have I heard of poor behaviour. They tend to be widely praised by parents who send their children there. Shrewsbury doesn't have a secondary school at the moment, which is something to think about if you are planning on staying for a while.

You could also consider Nord Anglia.

Good luck making your decision.

Thank you so much! It's reassuring that there are generally no concerns about behaviours or languages in any of these schools, which is always a primary concern.

Behaviour is generally very good, certainly in comparison to the average English state primary school and arguably compared to some preps. In terms of academics, it depends what you are comparing these schools to. I can say confidently that there is no HK primary school that is as rigorous as a London prep school aiming to prepare children for St Pauls/ Westminster and similar - or rather there are but not UK curriculum and you'd have to commit to bilingual (English/Mandarin) and nightly homework (not just reading and times tables) in a major way. Most parents looking for 11+ London/ super selective grammars will need to use tutors/ prep centres to close either content or curriculum gaps whichever school they choose.

Otherwise, academically I'd say the ones you mention are on something of a par. Kellett is probably more academic than ESF at primary level, or rather there are fewer curriculum gaps if DC want to transfer back into UK curriculum- maths seems to be problematic under the IBPYP. When my DC started Kellett it was completely non selective (just went by waitlist). That is now not the case- they do assess, especially dc coming in at any point after reception, so it's likely to get more academic. The A level results used to suffer from a mass exodus to boarding school at Year 9 but that's less and less the case now. More academic dc are staying in HK to complete their education.

Kellett is definitely the most genuinely expat school but it is still pretty diverse- a lot of children where one parent is British, the other local or another nationality and quite a few British children of South Asian or East Asian descent. Socially, for you and the DC, that or ESF likely to be the best bets. Kellett fair and quiz nights are legendary.

Also kind of depends where you want to live. Shrewsbury is convenient for Clearwater Bay/Lohas Park, as is Kellett Kowloon Bay campus and ESF CWB. If you want to live on HK Island then Kellett PFL, FIS or ESF Bradbury/Peak/Kennedy are options.

In your shoes I'd choose Kellett every time but I am probably biased as my dc went there (PFL) for 6 years + and loved it.

This is great to hear! Definitely not looking or comparing to super academic hot houses that sent kids to st Paul's or Westminster. More to avoid schools where the kids just go wild which could be tough for a more timid or shy DC.

Thanks a ton for the insights and glad your DC enjoyed it! No offers yet, so it's all wishful thinking at this point. But thought I'd do some research first to understand the lay of the land. Fingers crossed we actually get some offers in the future!!!

Think carefully before you move to HK. The national security law and resulting overreach into education mean most smart money is leaving not arriving. I’d recommend getting familiar with this before you uproot your children.

All the schools you mention are fair to good but none are as good as you would have in a private English system (all schools you mention are private fee paying hence the comparison).
All have had a lot of expats leave so the true mix of locals (Cantonese speaking) / mainlander Chinese and English speaking expats has skewed significantly in the last 2 years. Meaning your children could run the risk of being the only / one of the only native English speakers in the class. That’s hard in the playground never mind the classroom.

Just to add to the above posts, FIS also has a new(ish) primary campus in Tseung Kwan O. There are lots of FIS families in TKO and Clearwater Bay.

I agree that the NSL is something to consider -- I'm always surprised at how many expats seem totally unconcerned by it. We recently moved our children from a China-oriented school (not on your list) partly for this reason. I also agree about maths being potentially problematic under the IBPYP - quite a few ESF parent friends have expressed concerns about this.

The language issue is complex. My children have always been the only native English speakers in their class - sometimes it was an issue and sometimes not. The problem comes when there is another majority language and when the school doesn't really assess the English proficiency of new students. So, if almost all of the other students speak Mandarin at home, that could cause issues academically and socially. On the other hand, if English is one among many first languages in the class then it doesn't matter so much, as all the children default to English and there is usually a high level of proficiency.

That's a great point @hyraxHK on new schools and curriculums. Hopefully we get a place at more established schools eventually.

@Cathaymum fair to good? My impression was these schools are all at least better than state schools in the UK even if not right up there with the top preps, but maybe I'm mistaken.

My 2 did 3 years of Primary school at an ESF. If we had to do it again I would probably make the same choice.

Pros: much less expensive than the international schools, which was definitely a consideration for us.

Very diverse student group - ours were about 50-50 split between local kids and true expats.

They are neighbourhood schools so their friends were all local.

Overall their experience was on par with an Ofsted outstanding school.

Cons: it's still HK, and there was more of a focus on rote learning than I was comfortable with. I suspect the private schools would have been better in this regard.

The schools are large - at our school each year had 5 classes if 30 students each, with 30 students each. My kids were neither at the top or the bottom of their group and were really getting lost in the shuffle. That said, with that many kids there was never a discipline issue - those kids were very well behaved!

I'm sure there is more but that's what comes to mind!

What's the shuffle - do they switch class groups every year rather than the same class throughout? I wonder if same across all schools.

The local nature of the ESF school sounds lovely. It's what happens with state schools in the UK too but we also missed that as we are in prep.

Do people generally stay to Alevels or go back to the UK at say 14/15 to get 3 years secondary prior to UK uni?

You would struggle to go back for 3 years secondary before uni as that would mean moving halfway through GCSEs, which is a terrible idea. You either need to be back in the UK by the end of Y9 at the latest, or come back for the beginning of A levels. If you haven’t been ordinarily resident in the UK (attending boarding school doesn’t count) for 3 years before university you pay international fees.

As with any school choice, its really down to your specific kids as to which one is right for them.

It's always interesting to see the different opinions come out on these threads; for example, I felt Kellet was too British, so I didn't send my kids. I did send them to FIS, and I absolutely loved the school. They were at Jardins and Chai Wan. The new TKO campus is a great facility and the bilingual system appears to be working well but be clear which campus you are allocated as there are slight differences. Classes were 25 or less and the year group is 50 in total (although this is changing at Secondary as the TKO kids come in) so even if they shuffle the kids each year, everyone knows everyone.

ESF watch the fees. Government subsidies are getting pulled back, and while fees are still low, they are increasing substantially year on year. They also vary in "culture" by campus, so again, be clear on which campus you're aiming for, not just ESF as a whole.

Older kids are more often staying; I think Covid changed that a bit given the challenges of online schooling either by staying in the UK or dealing with time zones if they returned to HK. I also think the schools have stepped up in recent years to stem the flow of kids back to home countries at 15/16. Again, it depends on your kids, smaller IB/A level classes can mean really good attention from teachers, or if can mean limited debate for example, in the Humanities. I think ESF are now offering more vocational choices as well which was always a challenge in HK in the past.

And yes, the big factor can be Uni fees - my experience is that it can hit or miss about paying international fees if you've not been a resident in the UK for 3 years. Obviously the safest option if thats an issue for you is to be planning a move back at that point.

As for HK yes its changing and I think for Expats who've lived through that change, its very difficult. If you're just arriving, I'd recommend treating it at face value and avoid going down the rabbit hole of what it use to be like. Being very honest if you're just there for a short term posting the politics of it are unlikely to impact you as expats can stay firmly in their bubble, and many do. However, if you are thinking much longer term you should consider the restrictions on press, free speech etc. Different people have different red lines when it comes to living in HK or leaving it, only really you can decide what yours are.

Thank you for all the shared experiences here :) And @HaveringGold yes I agree... if we do go ahead, we'll definitely be treating it with face value.

Out of interest, has anyone here had any experience with Harrow HK? Obviously their name is great and their academic results are outstanding, but I hear on the grapevine that the majority of the children are local HK kids and therefore I suppose Cantonese will be the language of play on playdates/in the playground (and perhaps less "native" English speakers). Is that true? And I wonder if the name is still reputation beyond HK i.e. once back in the UK, would secondary schools here see it favourably or would they just see it as a franchise.

Re. Harrow, most well off local children are genuinely bi-lingual (often trilingual). They are likely to speak English socially and at home, at least to an extent, in addition to Cantonese, especially as they may have parents who were educated abroad. The language is unlikely to be as much of an issue as the culture. Harrow is mainly local children and many of the boarders are from the mainland. That is always going to confer an extremely high pressure academic culture. The results are good because the school is stuffed full of children who do very little other than study.

The name doesn't give you anything- UK schools are aware that all these HK schools are just franchises with v v little in common with the "motherland".

Also I agree with PP re timing of return but I'd go further and say if you're coming back to UK be back by start of Year 9 if you want them to do GCSEs in UK as they have to choose options by Easter of Year 9. Some schools start the curriculum in Year 9 now.

Finally, re ESF, they have dropped the catchment system now so these are less "neighbourhood" schools than they were - they are still marginally cheaper but the classes are a lot bigger. The secondaries are huge (South Island is 7 form entry), so larger than some UK state schools and a lot larger than most private schools.

Just jumping on here as also looking at FIS for my dc who are 10 and 12. They are already bilingual French/English as today go to school in a French speaking country. However they don’t follow the French curriculum and love the IB so we’re thinking the international stream, and we’re not planning on going back to the UK any time soon.

i believe they would be on different campuses until my youngest goes into Y7. Not sure on logistics for that….

@HKdreaming school bus is super easy and many kids take it so good for local friendships and for the secondary school if you're on the island the public bus is very convenient.

We left FIS 18 months ok and my kids still miss it daily. I'm blatantly bias but feel free to ask me if you've any specifics

Thank you @HaveringGold I’m so keen to keep their French going - how does the international stream work in terms of the French? As they’ve done all their schooling in French (and none in English though we obvs speak English at home) I am interested to see how this would be.

Did you have any experience of the secondary campus?

What are the extracurricular activities like?

Currently wading through property websites and imagine Happy Valley to be a good spot? (there doesn’t seem to be a main property website like rightmove in the uk or am I missing something?)

Though also panicking about whether our beloved cars would be happy in HK. One LOVES to roam outside all day so struggle with the idea of him in an apartment. The other is happy closer to home/indoors.

International stream is English with about 4 classes of French a week, there are loads of French families choosing to go this route and most years there is sufficient for them to host a native French speaker class (they don't guarantee it but I've never known it not happen). If your kids have been educated in French you should explicitly ask if this will cause an issue at IB - they may need to take higher level, obviously this is to stop it being unfair to other non French kids at standard level but the school is well versed in the application for French passport holders or speakers.

It does PYP, MYP then flips to GSCE and then back to IB. It's a long story why they do GSCE but actually it works so it's fine.
Both kids went from Reception to Secondary so I know all the campuses well. Lots of renovations have just happened to spruce them up a bit and of course TKO is pretty new.

ECAs are a strange beast, FIS is getting better, having been pushed by the international stream to do more but still not much sport. However there are sports clubs all over and most kids belong to those so sport still happens. Again any specifics on ECAs you are looking for let me know.

And finally cats do tend to be a bit
housebound, we lived in Stanley (as do many French) and our neighbours cat use to roam there. But remember there are wild dogs, boars etc so it's a personal choice for many to keep them in.

Happy Valley is great but avoid apartments that need access via the race course because Wednesdays traffic is bad. And if the younger is at TKO then Southside works well with school buses, and as I say Repulse/Stanley is a bit of an enclave for the French.

I've never quite understood happy valley - i get it's close to central via team / bus but is that generally the draw?

Stanley and repulse bay sounds lovely. No idea where people would shop for daily groceries or weekend shopping trips. Presumably just pop along on a bus to somewhere else

@HKdreaming The Jardine's Lookout (primary) and Blue Pool Road (secondary campuses) are quite close together, plus there are school buses.

The primary school doesn't follow the IB programme, if that is important to you -- it's English National Curriculum plus International Primary Curriculum. Then at secondary it's MYP, IGCSE and IBDP.

'Spacious' is a decent property site. However, these sites often don't advertise genuinely available properties -- they're best used as a way to get a sense of price ranges and which buildings you might be interested in. Most people just tell an agent their specifications - they can then show you available apartments.

And thank you @LaPalmaLlama - I thought the same on Harrow that it's just locals.

I'm an ESF alumni (up to Y8). Loved my time there! Happy learning whilst giving me many useful soft skills.

also on that topic I went to boarding school in the UK after ESF - I'd say its a relatively sharp shift coz many schools in ESF don't introduce formal exams until quite late (like year 10）but is totally manageable and definitely nothing to be excessively worried about at this stage. One of my friends went from ESF to a UK Boarding school and got straight 9s.

Hello, I'm interested in knowing more about these schools please. Thanks

@Nondistinctasian Can you clarify what you want to know? I've scanned the thread and I'm not sure there's much more to add to what's been said about the various schools.