Where should we move to?

[bravotango]

Hello all, reaching out here for some ideas. We (me, DH and DS aged 1) are thinking about selling our house here in the UK, living abroad for 1-2 years and then coming back and buying a house where we currently live in time for DS to start school. Unless we decide to stay of course. Relevant details:

We are all British passport holders
I will be staying in my job and working remotely. Salary around £40k
Unsure what work DH would do - here he works in a third sector role in the community

We would like somewhere that we can be outside a lot more, cleaner air, socially a good attitude towards children/nice place to raise a family. Would prefer not to need a car. Happy to take language lessons and keen to integrate best we can but would like to be able to use English in the first instance. Would prefer less than 3 hours flight to UK for family.

Have friends in Rotterdam, Konstanz and Copenhagen - thoughts on these places?

Obviously just a dream at the moment! But really eager to hear ideas, advice etc from seasoned MNetters living abroad.

Thank you!

I would start by looking at which countries you could get a visa which allows you to live and work.

Without access to an EU passport quite a lot of Europe will require visas as the poster above indicates. Each individual member state has different rules but without a job, relationship with an EU national or significant money to invest it will be difficult.

It is still possible for British citizens to move to Ireland but it is generally quite expensive especially Dublin with significant pressure on housing.

Copenhagen is a non-starter; it's not possible to work remotely in the uk and get a visa in Denmark.

Which countries do you have a visa for? Are you dual nationals- if so where?

Brexit has fucked us all.

Copenhagen is a no - we lived there for 2 years and came back. (And we went pre the end of withdrawal agreement) - you won't qualify- simple as. It does not have a nomad visa and working for yourself it really really is a complicated minefield- that's what we did- constant jumping through hoops and that was before we had totally left. You also needed£30k in bank , house deposits are 3 months plus a months rent and before you leave you have to restrip and renovate to see any chance of any deposit back!!

Germany has nomad visa, so does Spain - much easier to qualify on that- you do need cash though in bank - your H though cannot work in Spanish market on it

Will your company allow it, there's tax implications for them.

@bravotango Netherlands also very difficult indeed in your situation - no nomad visa and insist on a degree or a listed shortage occupation

Personally Eire is your best bet and for your partner to be able to work . No rules at all!!

Brill thanks for replies! Lots to go and Google. Bloody Brexit.

@bravotango indeed. It was little things for us because of the nature of our business we needed to get 'parcels' frequently- became totally unaffordable- also needed to come back to uk once every 5 weeks or so and availability halved and flights doubled in cost. Not all of this is Brexit- some was covid- but that wasn't in the equation when we decided to move.

Don't rule out rental rules too- I've told you Denmarks, Germany is 3 months too and often can come with no kitchen because they have long term security and people make them their own

Sweden is a decent one- no nomad visa but they do have a self employment visa provided you have significant experience in your field- it's fiddly and lots of proving income and again around £30k in the bank- lovely place though and exactly the lifestyle you fancy- high tax though but very high services. To be honest I'm not sure if you would qualify unless you freelanced for the company you work for- also again it's not easy for your partner to work, he would probably end up doing something quite menial as the decent jobs have to be offered within the EU first.

This is why I mentioned Eire- I really wasn't trying to put you off- just be honest and offer a very easy route!!

Honesty welcomed, I knew Mumsnet would be the place! Thank you 👍

@bravotango it's best to actually be a realist and certainly Brexit has massively complicated things- people need to understand that now it's no different to you being say a Kenyan -and these countries really aim to fill slots in their workforce with non EU members doing the shit jobs-unless you are a top end scientist, medic etc- most of the decent jobs they can fill with EU workers. There is no real advantage in many of the most in demand places like Sweden, France, Netherlands , Denmark to allowing loads of self employed or freelancers in

I don’t think Brexit has got much to do with your opportunities or lack of them. You don’t speak another language to a standard where you could be employed as an ‘ ordinary ‘ employee, if I understand you correctly ; you don’t seem to have any skills which would make you especially desirable compared to native speakers.

When i lived in France , I saw quite a few couples who had pitched up expecting to make a living without particular or transferable skills . Most of the professions were closed to people who did not have the relevant national qualifications, the French employment system with its very high demands on employers made foreign workers ( not just British) unattractive and expensive. Most people ended up self employed, usually offering services to other expats (the French would much prefer to deal with other French , and not just because of the language barrier).Brexit has made it harder to start living in Europe, but I don’t think it has made the real business of earning a living very different.

PS we lived there very happily for 15 years and spoke good French, but we financed ourselves from the UK

We relocated to Quebec last year - relatively straightforward. DH is French Canadian and dual qualified. I had a transfer at work and we are both fluent French speakers.
Many countries will require your skills to be on their skill shortage list, or in the case of Quebec you would struggle to get a job without being a French speaker.

Has your employer said that this is ok to work remotely? This has legal and tax implications for them as well as you

Apart from possible complications with work and visas, as several others have mentioned, also think very seriously about whether selling your house is the right thing to do, particularly if you are only going to be away for a year or two. Property prices in the UK tend to increase faster than in much of Europe, so you will sell your house, with all the attendant costs of sale – solicitors, estate agent commission, etc (and what are you going to do with all your furniture and belongings?) - And then when you come back to the UK, your equity in the house simply won’t buy you the same standard of property as when you left.

you talk about integrating, but even with attempting to pick up the language, don’t expect that people are going to welcome you with open arms, particularly if they know you will be leaving again. What are your plans for your child and nursery/preschool? Presumably your DH can look after your child until he finds work, but if you are both in employment, you may want to think about childcare options in your chosen country – the ratios, culture and expectations can be very different in other countries and may come as a shock And not necessarily be what you expect or are happy with.

I think I can probably speak from a position of some knowledge on this topic, having lived and worked in three different European countries before settling in the UK, including having children in a European schools system at one point.

What are your reasons for thinking about moving? Is it just a desire to live somewhere different, experience a different way of life?

Thanks everyone, as I said in my op this was really just a 'dream' type of thing in its very early stages - all the comments about searching for specific visas and info on rental environments are very helpful, thank you.

I certainly wouldn't be considering this if I thought we didn't have any transferable skills and I'm not blaming our 'lack of opportunity' entirely on Brexit, but of course it's a huge factor? I work in an internationally relevant field of research that abroad is conducted primarily in English so in that sense I would have approached my own employment opportunities that way, but my current employer does support remote working from another country so I would focus on that first I think.

Our reasons for considering it are to try a different way of life before committing to somewhere in the UK for 10+ years once DS starts school. We have family and friends abroad and are obviously going through a 'grass is greener' moment - this post is helpful to see what may or may not be realistic and where the challenges lie. Thanks all again.

Dubai offers remote working visas, but I don't know what work DH could do there and you would need a ton of money up front. Outdoor lifestyle available, but you won't want it except in Nov - Feb!

You might qualify for a nomad visa in Spain. You need 25,000 euros in the bank and another 10,000 for each family member, and to have been employed a while, but it's doable.