Losing home student status

[Movingon2023]

I have been troubled by this the whole weekend and hope the wise mumsneters can make me see some perspectives..

We are a family of 4. Me and dh originally from an Asia country but have lived here for 20+ years under the indefinite leave to remain (ILR) status. In fact our entire working life is in the UK. Our children are born here and have dual nationalities (our home country and British)

Dh's company is looking to expand into Asia and he is offered a post in our home country! We are at the final stages of negotiation and planning. All seems good, we get to be closer to our wider families, kids learn more about their roots. Dc1 is nearly secondary school age. The plan is for the kids to come back here for university then decide for themselves where they want to settle, UK or home country.

All seems good, until I found out that the children will lose their home student status when they come back for uni. It means we suddenly have to find another £180k to make up the shortfall for 2 children (using Oxford uni fees for calculation) . Apparently we need to be ordinary resident in the UK for 3 years prior to uni in order to qualify. Apparently a lot of expats are caught out and end up having to pay international fees. I know rules is rules but it still seems unfair when we have paid tens of thousands of tax every year for 20 years.

The purpose of this thread is to see if there is anyone in the similar situation and how things turn out for you. Also I am hoping if there is anyone working in the student admission/fees department who can shed some light on how I can increase my dc chances of retaining that home student status.

I have read carefully into the rules and all websites say in case of any dispute, it is judged case by case. The following are some of the factors they look at:

1. Property in the uk: we have a couples, which will be rented out
2. Paying UK tax: nothing after we move to asia, expect council tax for the rental house

3..history in the uk: as mentioned, we lived here for 20+ years

1. Ties in the uk: no family nor relatives in the UK
2. Frequent trip back to the uk: we intend to visit once a year
3. Fixed term job posting: dh's company can word it clearly in the contract that the job oversea (I.e. my home country) is fixed term, says 7 years.
4. Having only work visa in the country of the job post, so as to emphasise that the only place we can go after the job finishes, is back to the UK: unfortunately, we don't need a work visa to work in our home country , also there is no restriction to stay back after the expat job finishes.

I think that is all. Sorry it is such a long post. Thank you in advance ☺

Her DC are British, she’s only asking for knowledge that most DC of military and foreign office kids get gratis from their parents employers.

They're always home fee payers - they don't need advice from their employers.... OP is in a completely different situation. Esp as her dh won't even be going on a work visa of any sort.

@BillaBongGirl thank you. Absolutely not trying to defraud anyone or play the system.
@titchy yes things will be more straightforward if we are British and the place of posting is not our home country.

Why do you think you should be exempt from a regulation of university fees which has been around for decades? I’m dual nationality but still had to pay fees to study here in the 1980s.

With this knowledge your DH may want to negotiate a higher salary or you might think about a UK boarding school for your DC.

@Movingon2023
he was offered home fees immediately from Loughborough without any further info and it was Warwick which wanted the contracts. I think Loughborough offered home fees because he had a very strong predicted IB grade of 43 points - which he achieved. Warwick was always his preferred choice so he rejected the others before he received an offer and had Loughborough as his back up choice. We didn’t apply to student finance as it didn’t seem fair as we were not in the uk at the time. We paid his fees and all expenses. Ds graduated two years ago and lives in the uk.

@FarEast as shared by a few pp, one shouldn't lose the home student status if the family is abroad on fixed term posting, by uk employers.
My unique situation is, this oversea posting happen to be my home country , and I don't know if that makes any difference

Again OP I don't think this is your biggest problem, even if the kids keep their home status I'm not entirely sure your plan would allow you to keep your ILR.

It is sensible to look at all options but remember that your DCs may not want to go to university in the UK or they may not want to go to university at all.

Also I am absolutely certain there would be other fantastic universities hopefully for a lower fee or even free in the country you are going to or in neighbouring countries.

You are fixated in trying to avoid spending £180k which you may never need to pay anyway.
Better to look at how much better your family life will be (if?) whilst living in this other country. That should be your main concern at this stage.
Not the, potential, £180K expense.

I don't know about citizenship status but, perhaps, get advice from a specialist lawyer on this.

Depending how long away university is due to start, maybe look at saving £180K from your family income between now and then. Of course fees may well be different in the UK by then. If you don't need to use the new savings, invest for the children.

If you come back 3 years before uni that means Sixth Form plus a gap year, just to be clear. You can’t come back in Year 11 and sit GCSEs the same year. Wouldn’t work for a child.

Plus the fact that neither you nor your dh are UK nationals...

Who will his employer be and will he be classed as a UK employee posted abroad or is this for an Asian company with all pay and terms based in Asia? That is what will make the difference

My son is starting his degree (5 or 6 years). We have lived in the UK for the last 9 years but we want to move back to our house in the UK once he is settled. Will he remain as a home status student if we move back to the other country? I believe this is the case as he started as a home student status? Thanks 😊

Yes - fee status is fixed at the point of entry.

@caerdydd12 would you share more please? We can't lose the ILR.
@Branster you are right. TQ . Just a bit disgrunted losing something we thought we are entitled to.
@BaronessEllarawrosaurus at the moment the employer is going to be from an Asian company (neighbouring to my home country) , whose parent company is a UK company. If this is a problem , we can try asking for him to be sent from the UK company instead.

As I said you need to take professional advice, paid for, not from Mumsnet as there are many variables. The crux is normally you cannot remain out of the country for more than 2 years before losing ILR, I don't think a holiday each year would absolve you of this considering, in advance, you're actually planning on being away and non resident for 7 years. There are certain things that immigration can take into account if they deem your ILR lapsed, including being posted overseas for work but as you've stated you don't require visas as it's your home country and you're entitled to stay there after, meaning it may not be seen as temporary. They also look at ties to the UK and you've been open in the sense you don't have any family here etc. ILR isn't actually indefinite and this isn't really an expat posting, it's you and your family returning home for 7 years and expecting to keep your ILR.

You will lose ILR if you’re gone for more than two years but you can apply to come back as a Returning Resident at the end of your period away. You’d need to prove ties. Having rental property in the uk that you’re paying uk tax on may help but PP is right, you definitely need proper specialist legal advice because they’re are all sorts of ifs and buts.

The general advice is below (a holiday once a year effectively is not good enough). It's a lengthy read but well worth it, it explains that an absence of less than two years can still mean your ILR is revoked because you aren't returning each time to settle (as it's just a UK holiday for you):

Following from the information above, common sense would dictate that an absence of less than 2 years would allow a person to keep their ILR and return to the UK without any issues. A question that most often follows from our clients upon learning that ILR can be lost through an absence of more than 2 years, “so I just have to return to the UK for a couple of days every 2 years to keep the ILR “active”? Quite expectedly, things are not that black and white (when are they?). The Home Office’s guidance on returning residents states: “A person who has been absent from the UK for less than 2 years will retain their indefinite leave and does not need to apply for entry clearance before resuming their residence in the UK”.

Seems very clear. However, there is further information that stipulates that border officials “will assess whether a person can be admitted for entry under the requirements of paragraph 18”. To answer the question above, we need to consider paragraph 18 of the Immigration Rules, below:

18. A person may resume their residence in the UK provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that the person concerned:

(i) had indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom when he last left; and
(ii) has not been away from the United Kingdom for more than 2 years; and
(iii) did not receive assistance from public funds towards the cost of leaving the United Kingdom; and
(iv) now seeks admission for the purpose of settlement (emphasis added).
Often overlooked part of paragraph 18(iv) states that not only a person must have been away from the UK for less than 2 years, but that person must be returning to the UK for the purpose of settlement. In a scenario outlined above, a short return to the UK every two years may result in ILR being cancelled at the border, as at some stage the person may have created life overseas and will not, therefore, be returning to the UK for the purposes of settlement, but rather attempting to enter as a visitor in order to prevent their ILR from lapsing.

For ILR a lot depends on how you got it in the first place. You would usually lose it after 2 years but in practice I found it was at passport renewal,

I just had mine reinstated after 14 years in Asia, in part as a lead up to DC potentially going to UK uni. As PP said i urge you to get legal advice on this. It was a relatively straightforward process but required an insane amount of paperwork to demonstrate why I had it in the first place.

I think it depends if you go abroad on a perm or temp contract- if temp then you'd still count as being ordinarily resident in the Uk

You are asking how to commit fraud!

You realise this is illegal and could result in a prison sentence?

@heartofglass23 your comment is both incorrect and insulting. Please do not comment without reading the whole thread.

@caerdydd12 thank you, very informative read. I know there is a risk in losing ILR during this oversea posting hence trying to maintain ties in the uk as much as I can. Ultimately the plan is to retire in the uk.

What on earth are you going on about?

Then I'd definitely recommend legal advice because I don't think your plan of an annual holiday will suffice, nor do I think you have what constitutes enough ties either

There is absolutely no intention of any fraud in thus scenario! What on earth ate you on about???!!

OP, absolutely get advice from a qualified lawyer because the status as regards citizenship is much, much more important than university fees.

Also consider you could return here with the children in less than 2 years whilst your husband finishes his contract abroad.

I can only repeat, try and not obsess over your estimate of £180k potential fees. It may well be a different scenario by then. Maybe your children will study in the USA at a very, very expensive university. Then what? Or how about pilot school or something equally expensive to the tune of £100k.
Anything can happen, just save as much as you can for your children and don't look at it as 'loosing' money if circumstances change.
I appreciate £180k is a lot of money but it's not something you need to find today. Have a savings strategy specific to this eventuality, add an extra year in case children want a gap year and you may find it's not quite as stressful. and accept that it may well be a completely different situation when the time comes. But you'd have some additional funds which it can't be a bad thing.

@caerdydd12 thank you again. @Branster obviously speaking from wisdom and experience 😊

Thank you all who contributed.. it has been immensely useful. And I hope it will be informative to other 'expats'. Sorry I haven't replied/thank each one..

I will close the thread now. Thank you again