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Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

MNetters living in Germany, France or elsewhere in EU

14 replies

lunaxandlillet · 19/08/2023 08:47

Hello all!

I'm curious to read from MN users living overseas, whether British or users that are born and bred in Germany, Spain, France, etc...

How do you like it? How are things? Did you manage to make friends? How are things day to day? Is grass truly greener or..?

OP posts:
DivorcingEU · 19/08/2023 09:31

British born and bred.

Married to an EU National of one country.

Living in another EU country.

Everybody laughs or shakes their head at the British government.

Domestic abuse is not recognised here. Domestic violence is. So if you're not being beaten up or raped - with evidence - there's no real help available. And if you realise your relationship is financially and emotionally/psychologically abusive then you're seen as completely stupid for staying. Why? Because "women are free here". Yet, when you've had money withheld and your work opportunities curtailed by your spouse (deliberately) then you're financially not able to leave and remember, it's not abuse, it's you choosing to accept that behaviour, so there's not even a possibility of refuge space.

And remember, everything is in another language. One you always sound odd in because you've learned it as an adult and you'll unlikely ever speak fluently. And many jobs ask for any nationality who are "native speakers" of the local language. It's not a language spoken much outside the country!

But the government is marginally better, the health service is better. The taxes are higher.

There are plenty of people from the country I live in living in the U.K. who love it and wouldn't move back here.

Swings and roundabouts.

I'm not mentioning the country because as everybody who lives abroad knows, the degrees of separation are far less than 6 when you're abroad!

lunaxandlillet · 19/08/2023 10:04

Hello @DivorcingEU , thank you for your message.

Yes, it makes sense that things being in a different language is headachey. People living in their country of origin who aren't used to hearing foreigners speak their language makes sense.

However, I think accents are an asset, not hindrance. They show that you are multilingual, and that's not a small thing. Accents are beautiful and nothing to feel self-conscious about.

I think people you mentioned are those that simplify hardships. A lot of times people struggle, and they truly need help. Of course women are free, however, that doesn't mean that women don't ever need help.

I also wanted to ask if it's possible to make friends or how does that even work, because as an adult navigating friendships is a bit like dating although it doesn't always need to be.

How are you doing this weekend? I hope you manage to get respite if things are hard xx

OP posts:
StamppotAndGravy · 19/08/2023 12:13

Why do you want to know? Just curiosity or writing an article or are you planning to move? It's such an open question. Imagine you asked immigrants to the UK what they think. Imagine what a cleaner in Birmingham would say, vs a banker in London vs an agricultural laborer in Lincolnshire vs a nurse in Stoke. They're all in very different places with very different experiences. Which bracket would you fall into?

Sourisblanche · 19/08/2023 12:25

Brit married to a Dutch/Belgian, we’ve lived in lots of countries, Europe/US/Aus. Leaving U.K. at the end of the year, moving back to mainland europe. We’ve had enough of brexit basically.

lunaxandlillet · 20/08/2023 08:43

StamppotAndGravy · 19/08/2023 12:13

Why do you want to know? Just curiosity or writing an article or are you planning to move? It's such an open question. Imagine you asked immigrants to the UK what they think. Imagine what a cleaner in Birmingham would say, vs a banker in London vs an agricultural laborer in Lincolnshire vs a nurse in Stoke. They're all in very different places with very different experiences. Which bracket would you fall into?

I reckon you're making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

OP posts:
lunaxandlillet · 20/08/2023 08:46

@Sourisblanche Whereabouts would you like to live? 🙂

OP posts:
Busyhedgehog · 20/08/2023 15:48

EU national, married to a Brit, DS has dual nationality.
We lived in the UK until just after Brexit. It was DH's choice to move here.
We earn more, our house is way bigger, we've got a pool and a big garden. DS is at an independent school and has friends from different cultural backgrounds. Usually, the weather is better...although this summer was a bit of a washout.
We do have friends but most of them are colleagues. Several have children as well. Maternity benefits are much better here than they are in the UK. We're ttc #2, which is why I've looked into this.
Health care is much better.
We don't really have an issue with the language since I speak it fluently. It does mean that all of the paperwork falls to me, though. It's also a bit annoying that everyone expects me to know how things work and what paperwork is needed. I've spent all of my adult life in the UK, so have no clue how it works here. We're slowly working our way through it.

MargotBamborough · 04/09/2023 08:29

Brit living in France, married to a French man, two dual national children.

Overall standard of living is good, taxes are high, cost of living is high, childcare is cheaper (full time place in crèche about 600 euros a month per child (less if you are on a low income), mortgage fixed at 1.1% for 20 years. Healthcare better, quality of food better, maternity leave short compared to the UK.

The bureaucracy is absolutely unbelievable and I hate it.

My friends are a mix of "couple friends" my husband has known since university, people I've met through work and English speaking mums I've met mostly while on maternity leave. I'm sure I could make more French friends of my own if I joined an association or something but frankly don't have the time right now. Life is full enough.

Speaking fluent French helps massively, as does having a proper career. I doubt my experience would have been so good if I hadn't had those things.

No plans to move back any time soon.

MargotBamborough · 04/09/2023 08:35

I would add that as someone who moved before Brexit and benefited from the Withdrawal Agreement, none of the bureaucracy is related to not being French, other than applying for French citizenship which I didn't need to do other than in order to be able to vote. I have a permanent resident's card which is automatically renewed after 10 years if I have not become a French citizen by then, which hopefully I will have. So I would still have all the same bureaucracy to deal with if I were French.

If you need a visa to live here then expect a lot more hassle, queueing up at dawn or going online in the middle of the night to get an appointment to renew your titre de séjour and what have you. Any Brits moving now will be in that boat.

DivorcingEU · 05/09/2023 09:07

You said stamppotandgravy was making it more complicated than necessary. Not at all.

Imagine a wealthy French woman, living in central London in a big house, paid for by her husband's company, she speaks only French. She speaks to shop assistants and waiters in very broken English. Can't hold a conversation in English. She doesn't work. She has some British cleaners, but they speak GCSE French, so understand her instructions. She has wide and exclusively French, Belgian and Quebecois network of friends plus a few British friends who speak fluent French because they studied there. Her children go to French school in London. And then imagine being told, in French, that she was integrated in British society.

Imagine then a German paediatric nurse. Moves to the London with a young baby and her British partner. He's a British doctor who was working in Germany for a couple of years and speaks fluent German. At home they speak German because her English isn't great. Over the years it gets better, but still full of mistakes. She tries to learn more but she's dyslexic and it's doubly hard. She ends up working in a day care because she can't transfer her nursing qualifications to work in the U.K. purely due to her academic English not being up to scratch. Conversationally it's ok though. Her child goes to English school. He's bilingual. Partner leaves her and takes no responsibility of child, but won't agree to her moving back to Germany. Now she's living on a tiny income, struggling to make ends meet. Her whole life is in English. She's worn down from being a single mother in a different language and having people point out - daily - that she's not British because she's got a heavy accent.

Neither of these is me.

Both of these are real people I know with identifying details replaced with similar/equivalent ones.

Their experience, both as white women living in London, is not remotely similar.

Finally, while you may think that an accent is a sign of something good, you have to remember you're talking about English. We're very used to hearing our language spoken in many different accents and even some mistakes. That's not the case with every language. And when it's not the case, your accent becomes a point of attention, as do even small errors, usually to indicate that you're in some way a bit stupid. It's not with everybody, but you only need a few every day for it to grate. My daycare worker friend had summer camp kids tell her that to her face, with colleagues standing by. It was acceptable because they agreed she clearly wasn't intelligent if she made a single grammatical error!!

Living abroad can be great, in any country. What makes it really hard is lack of money, because that limits your ability to socialise. There can be irritations everywhere, but the isolation faced by someone living abroad whose finances are limited is greater than someone with the same financial limitations in their own country. To need time, money and energy to invest in building a network. Generally money can buy time (don't need to work a job you hate, just to cover bills) and provide a cushion that prevents energy depletion.

StamppotAndGravy · 05/09/2023 15:00

Thanks for understanding my point and expanding it so nicely @DDivorcingEU. I don't think the OP is really a good faith poster though and is trying to prove some undisclosed point, so your eloquence is probably lost.

Frenchfancy · 07/09/2023 21:08

@DivorcingEU very well put.

It's all very well saying and accent is a good thing, but in my experience it makes you lose at least 30 IQ points.

ColonelSpondleClagnut · 08/09/2023 08:10

Yeah I have to agree that it's a bit too open ended a question and I'm not sure of the purpose.

Tbh "how I find it" is much like life anywhere. There's good and bad and annoying and mundane and wonderful and exciting- just like like in the UK and just like life in the other country I lived in 🤷🏻‍♀️

Wherever you go, there you are. Or something.

FelicityFlops · 09/09/2023 04:26

Brit living in Germany for the past 35 years. Came here for work as there was nothing in the UK for me at the time.
Married a German, widowed 20 years ago this year. Now have dual nationality thanks to Brexit, which makes life less complicated.
Work internationally, so my house is really just somewhere to store the furniture.
Found the bureaucracy much less complicated when I moved to a village. Have also found that it is very easy to opt out of things or filter out bits of life that don't interest me.
Prefer it when I am working.
Love my life and have no plans to return to the UK, which now seems quite foreign to me.

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