French Brevet / Lycees (5eme)

[Earlyhours]

I have recently moved to France. For a variety of reasons the move was brought forward quite suddenly and I am not yet up to speed with the French education system.
My son is turning 14 and as such entering 3eme, the Brevet year in Sept. He has beginner level French currently but learning quickly.
I would really appreciate any advice from anyone here on how I could use the summer months to help him prepare for the year ahead.
I am afraid I also have a really limited understanding of the Brevet, it looks as though it is not in all subjects, only what we would call core subjects.
I have heard that there are different Baccalaureate but need to research that. If the Bac selected is on subjects that are not in the Brevet are there other entry requirements?
Thanks for all help, trying not to panic here as the move was necessary and hoping to use the summer productively if son cooperative!

Sorry the title of my post is wrong. Its 3eme.

Has he already started school? My son did his brevet in 2017 so I can't help with the finer details as both brevet and bac have changed a bit since then. But generally speaking, there are exams in French, Maths, sciences and history-geography. However, most of the marks for the brevet come from continuous assessment so often they know they've passed before they even do the exam.

The brevet isn't really considered that important and it is possible to continue to Lycee and the bac without having the brevet. If he is planning to do the bac general (the standard academic high school pathway) his ability to do so will depend largely on the opinion of his teachers. The 'conseil de classe' (basically a meeting of the teachers to discuss pupils' progress) will give a recommendation before the end of the year as to whether he should progress to the bac or not.

I wouldn't stress about the brevet at all. The most important thing will be to get him up to speed in French as quickly as possible.

Ok, thanks for the reply. He is starting, in 3eme, in September.
I know I shouldnt stress but would really like any info from Mumsnetters to help him with the next year, what to focus on etc.
I agree his French learning probably needs to be the top priority.

Have you already seen the Cahier de Vacances? That might give you an idea of where any gaps are in his knowledge compared to what is expected. They are essentially workbooks that revise key aspects of the previous year in preparation for the next year, in his case for 4eme into 3eme. For example, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passeport-Toutes-mati-C3-A8res-4e-3e-dp-2017148466/dp/2017148466/ref=dp_ob_title_bk but you can get them in the big supermarkets.

You'll be able to get the guides in either big supermarkets or somewhere like Cultura. Might be worth getting the ones for the earlier years. There are also packs of 'idiot' cards giving key facts at each stage.

Whereabouts are you? Waves from the Limousin (nearly 17 years).

I agree that he should focus on French, could he practice spoken French somehow? The cahier de vacances are a good idea, and you can also get workbooks that have the whole curriculum for the year like this

My DDs have just finished 2nde and 1ere générale and one thing that struck me compared to UK school is the sheer amount of homework they get, on top of quite long days.

There are a few different options after 3ème, it depends on whether he has an idea of what job he wants, how long he wants to study for, whether he’d prefer a vocational course, etc.

The brevet covers all subjects and so will not limit what subjects are done at the BAC.

The biggest hurdle is to get his French up to speed not just to pass the French part but to deal with all the other subjects.

He will also need another language as his LV2 (normally Spanish or German). My honnest advice would be to drop him down a year so he can get up to speed. The issue isn't whether he would get his brevet but whether he would be allowed to continue in bac general.

Can you get a teacher from his college to help him with French over the summer? Usually quite easy to find ime - someone who is semi-retired, normally an English teacher. Really helped my two eldest especially as they miss out on so much of the rote grammar if they arrive in France when older.

I would recommend getting him involved in a youth club or other summer activities to bring his spoken French up to speed as quickly as possible.

My DD took herself off to France in Year nine to learn French from scratch. She went to a state international school in one of the major cities. The advantage of it was that they gave new starters intensive French lessons but unfortunately, in order to do this, bumped her out of science lessons for two years, which wasn’t helpful at all.

She’s coming back home to the UK for sixth form now, but it seems that the Brevet du College (which they do in year 10) isn’t worth anything in terms of GCSE equivalence. Thankfully she’s not wanting to go an academic route but she was told that had she stayed in France she wouldn’t have been allowed to study biology as part of the International Bac in Premier (although they later changed their minds but by this point it was moot). Seconde is where they seem to make all the decisions about what they can and can’t study at Bac and it doesn’t seem to have much to do with performance at Brevet.

It’s a bit of a minefield to be honest OP. What I will say though, is that she has school friends who would otherwise be in academic years above and there seems to be very little stigma surrounding repeating years if necessary. Try not to worry too much. His French will improve in leaps and bounds over the next couple of years - especially if he’s fully immersed and not mostly hanging out with the English speaking kids, as mine did before broadening her friendship group.

I would second trying to get him into the year below - it’s quite common and will give him breathing space. They normally give support for non-French arrivals but only for the first year, and then it is full on deep end. And the disadvantage, as another poster said, is that pupils fall behind on other subjects because they are pulled out for extra French lessons. 3eme is a busy year and focussed on decision making for the following year. Make sure he has some time to relax and enjoy the summer holidays because school will be intense. Immersion in a new language is exhausting so if he can come home at lunchtime or in free periods that will help. I teach in the French system and my own children will be going into 3eme and 5eme in September. Happy to answer any specific questions about the brevet.

Thanks so much for all the replies.
I have been to Fnac today and now armed with the recommended holiday books.
Apparently the school probably wouldn't get him to repeat this year, not sure whether thats because of his good school reports to date or just policy. If they did suggest it I wouldn't object.
He will do Spanish as well I think (and from scratch).
I might be able to get a teacher over the hols or just end up doing that job myself.
I guess I will then also need to find out about Lycee, if there is a school choice here or subject choices to be made.
Is brevet harder or less difficult than GCSE? I am getting mixed info. on this.
And we are outside Lyon, not in Lyon, about an hour out.

And chocolatebourbon thanks, I may well have specific questions later so appreciate the offer.

I think the biggest difference between the brevet and GCSEs is the breadth of subjects. All 3 sciences plus 2 foreign languages plus history, geography, music, sport on top of maths and French. The other thing that makes it harder is the precision required in the language. French is very precise, errors are not permitted even in a history or science test.

The brevet is easier than GCSEs in the sense that (i) the only formal exams are in maths, French, sciences and history-geography (other subjects are just assessed by your teachers based on your normal schoolwork and day to day marks, so less pressure) (ii) a nice chunk of the mark is for an oral presentation, which to my mind is fairly easy to get reasonable marks for if the student prepares properly (iii) overall the whole thing is less high-stakes as the school’s decision to approve a request to go on to lycée GT is not conditional on brevet results, more on their impression as to how the student will cope with further academic study (iv) poor performance in one subject can be offset by great performance in another subject, so you can pass the whole thing regardless of specific weak areas.

That’s partly why I suggested making sure your son takes some time to enjoy his summer holidays, because with the best will in the world he won’t get his French up to 3ème standard in a couple of months, but if he works hard and shows potential at school I don’t believe anybody will be shutting down options for him after only one year in France. But I’ve no doubt he will find it a tough and stressful year!

I think they try to avoid getting kids to repeat the year now, although some still do if they need to and it would be useful for them, and some get threatened with it to make them get their act together (looking at you, DD1!)

The brevet is a lot less important than GCSEs, but some lycées (academic ones) won’t take anyone who they think won’t cope with the studying.

You can in theory pass the brevet just with coursework, and sometimes there are options like advanced English that get you a few extra points just for going to that class. You can also do the final presentation in English or Spanish in some colleges, that gets automatic extra points too.

I’m a teacher at a collège / lycée.

There are 2 things you needs to take into account for the brevet. Firstly, it’s examining a 3 year cycle. So in theory they are examined on things they have learnt in 5e, but there are definitely topics from 4e. Those won’t be in the books aimed at 3e normally, you’ll have to get the 4e books and he’ll need to learn 2 years of content.

Secondly is the marking. 400 of the 800 points are earned according to their « moyenne générale ». Any marked work, from the start of the year onwards, is out of 20 and then at the end of the year they find the average and allocate them points. It’s not like doing set pieces of coursework, it’s literally everything, in every subject. The problem is that with a basic level of French he’s unlikely to get good marks, certainly at the beginning of the year, so he won’t be going into the brevet in a strong position.

Of the remaining 400 points, 100 are from the oral presentation, which obviously can be prepared, and then there are the 4 exams. 100 points each for French and maths, and 50 points each for Histoire/Géo/EMC and SVT/SPH/Techno.

Realistically to do well at the brevet he needs to do 4e as well. Have the school understood you plan to enter him for the brevet? We have had French beginner students, but if they’re in 3e they don’t sit the brevet. You should prepare yourself and him for them possibly telling you he needs to retake the year at the end of it.

In terms of what it’s worth, the normal equivalence given is 4 GCSEs at grade C (old money).

Meant to say, the French exam is a beast, and includes a dictation paper. I would definitely recommend a tutor if he goes straight into 3e.

In terms of entry to the lycée, we don’t allow anyone up from 3e if we don’t think they’ll manage the work in 2nde. Generally this is based on their marks in French, maths, H/G and English.

The different bacs don’t exist anymore. For the general bac there is a standard 2nde, and then in 1ere they take core subjects (the tronc commun) and three spécialités. They then drop one of those for Ter. In theory teachers can refuse to let you take a spé based on your marks, but in reality maths and physics get first refusal and other spés have to mop up the rest. If they really won’t manage, we try to redirect them into professional or technical (though it’s better to go straight there after 3e), or we make them retake 2nde. We have at least 15 retaking next year. That’s just over 10% of the year. Plus about 20% leaving for alternative bacs.

Although there is a lot less retaking than there used to be, especially lower down the school, retaking from 3e onwards definitely happens. It’s nowhere near as stigmatised as you’d imagine coming from elsewhere.

Our recommendation would be a private tutor. We found a wonderful one by going on the superprof website. She helped DS out from the ages of 9-11, to see him from primary school into college.

I think it's important not to underestimate the difficulty your child may have with all the subjects being taught in French. Your DS will learn Spanish from French, Maths in French etc. I couldn't help DS with Maths during lockdown because although I speak fluent everyday French, I don't speak Mathematical French.

Ok, thanks, quite a lot to think about, really grateful for all the comments

I would insist that he goes into quatrième. There is no way he will find the year of troisième remotely doable with no French. Alternatively could you get him into a bilingual school in Lyon where he could bypass the brevet and do the IB? He would still learn French. Depending where you are, there are parts of the Ain and Rhône with swift regional railway links to Lyon.
It is tough going.

No useful information I'm afraid but wanted to say my DD has just finished 2nde after going a year behind shes 17, it was tough going but she's got an average of 14. Her French teacher has just started marking her work, and she's getting higher marks than her peers. Bonne Chance :)

He does have some French, thankfully, and I am pretty fluent so can help him quite a bit. For a while we were thinking of sticking with international GCSEs but have decided not to postpone the integration which will have to happen at some point and maybe its better for the brevet year than a later year.
It is nice to hear success stories here but I do realise it won't be easy for him and it does seem the school will put him in his own year rather than repeat 4eme. They did some tests on him, Maths etc.

By the way, when do children here apply to Lycee? I have been told by the school I dont need to think about it until next year i.e. 3eme and I hope that is correct.

Yes, lycée applications happen in 3e.

Is your son bright and hoping to go to Uni in the UK? If so, this is a serious situation. Despite your post title, you are talking about a pupil due to enter Year 10. There is alot of stuff written in this thread so far about 3e or 4e blabla, but this is mere detail where you have a very important situation, it seems, of removing your son from his education system. What would you say if a French friend whose teen spoke beginner level English and she asked how to use the summer before he starts Year 10 ?! Think very carefully indeed if there is a way you can wait to move abroad for just 3/4 years until your son finished his GCSE and A level education. Your situation seems really different from a pp whose daughter dreamed of studying and settling permanently in France, and who had a place as Interne. IMHO I would use the summer to plan how he can continue his current schooling, even if you are spending quite a bit of time in France.