German Schools

[finknottle]

Get it off your chest

There are, as anywhere, good and bad aspects to the school system.

So if you want advice, help or an embittered rant - feel free.

On a postive note - anyone see the thread on Primary about security? I've just taken dd to kg and on the way back wanted to drop off a school library book ds2 has had since before Christmas and forgot again.
All I did is walk in, went to his classroom and left it on his PE kit so he'll see it at break.

No one worries unduly about security here. The caretaker has an office (all glass) outside the main building but he's rarely in it.

Is it only village schools? Looks so odd to me to have a school "locked down".

I think I still have a lot to learn really. Unfortunately I missed the first Elternabend because dd moved into this particular class in October. It did seem a bit cliquey the other night, small group of dps who all seemed to know each other really well - presumably the Elternvertreter were amongst them, but I didn't find out who they were. Everyone else just sat there looking a bit bemused. I asked dd about her class yesterday and she said that, yes there are some dc who play up a lot but she didn't seem to all that bothered by it. I do know one other dm (not one of the cliquey ones) from the class quite well so maybe I'll try to speak to her to see if she knows any more.
The whole set up of these parent evenings seems wrong somehow, almost like a invitation for confrontation. I feel quite sorry for the teachers really, they must dread them.

I think they do dread them. THey always look nervous (our current ones) or they are experienced and hiding behind a huge stack of papers (last school). The experienced ones start by telling you how well all the dc are doing, that they can now do this, that and the other (this is to indicate to you that they - the teachers -are doing a good job and if your dc cannot do this they are behind , so you won't dare raise it). At the end they invite comments and then just let them hang there with no response (last school).

Btw please don't let me give you the impression I know my way around the system. God forbid. If I did I wouldn't spend my waking hours on here panicking about it!

Could be quite cliquey, maybe a lot of those dc went through kg together and they are all quite competitive when it comes up to decision time re secondary schools. No one will admit to you what their dc can or cannot do etc

oh admylin, that list about not going into the Turnhalle is just so... German. The homework task is so German, and the list read to me like a brilliant satire on Germany Don't worry, I'm sure the teacher won't have got it!

You always give such sound advice though!
I suspect that the competitive aspect will start coming out soon. Not looking forward to y4 at all.

Taipo, I felt exactly like you when we first joined our school. At first I felt really sorry for the teacher too and then slowly got more and more fed up with the way she 'worked' - one thing that has now helped alot is that I became Elternvertreter for ds's class. I can't always go to the meetings but I do get the info emailed and then I feel as if I know what's going on at the school more than before anyway.

The first elternabend was awful - we joined in October so I missed the start but the parents were really rough on the teacher, didn't listen to her or let her finish talking and I thought they were really rude but there is usually a reason when parents react like that (now I know) - in dd's class the parents are all happy and teacher is great so the elternabende are informative and worth going to. In the end, ds's class had a turn out of 5 out of 15 parents at the meeting because they were so fed up with the teacher. I still think these abende are a bit of a waste of time and a one to one meeting with the teacher to discuss your own child is much better. Often the pushy parents start talking about their own child infront of everyone and who wants to know why little Max or Tim only got a grade 2 in sport even though he plays football 3 times a week and can already ski .

lol at little Max or Tim. Think there's probably a lot of those around here. I really admire you though for becoming an Elternvertreter. Perhaps that's something I should consider when ds starts y1 in September.

Wow, all has been quiet on teh school front eh - for a few weeks atleast!

Thought I'd ask what you think of this school if you have time to take a look Roderbruch I like the idea of it going through from year 1 to year 13 , all different levels, all in one school and ds could still do his gymnasium level stuff - if dd didn't make it to gymnasium they would still be at the same school too.

It looks good from the website. I also like the idea of going all the way through to y13. Actually I wish there were something like that round here but it all seems to be the old fashioned 3-tier system. I haven't really thought about the next stage yet though. Plenty of time, I keep telling myself.

Ideally you need to visit the schools you shortlist and speak to a few people who know about the schools in Hannover who will probably then give you all sorts of conflicting opinions. It's so hard isn't it?

What a nightmare trying to find a new school in a new city.

I really like the idea of the school, it would definitely appeal to me. The one thing that put me off a bit was the Grossraum concept in years 1-4. I used to be a primary teacher in England and I think this kind of set up really only works successfully with really good teachers. I´m assuming it´s a bit like open plan teaching with the possibility for groups to go off into smaller rooms. If the teachers aren´t very good at classroom control it can make for a very noisy learning enviroment. I´m not sure how old your children are, so it might not even apply to them.´

I´ve only been to Hannover a couple of times, but I really enjoyed it. I think the area near the zoo is meant to be quite good for living, but I can´t remember where I heard/read that - sorry.

Yes, that's why I liked this place because it sounds more like the system I know from home. I have to find out what the catchment area is for the grundschulbereich now so we can look for a place to live. It would be easier on me later if I knew my dc were in the same school and not at totally different sides of town, that's what attracts me to that school the most really.

I just think if they have the ability to do the Abitur then they would do it at any school so it doesn't have to be a gymnasium.

really hard to say. I don't know what area it is in and if there is likely to be a lot of violence/social problems at the school. Could you try googling the school and see if you can find any press reports on it?

SSandy, hi. I've done some more research and it seems that the IGS that I was looking at is not in a very nice area to live which defeats the object of me having them at the same school if we aren't living nearby (which wa smy plan). The other alternative is the Schillerschule for ds which is supposed to be the best Gymnasium and has a bilingual class on offer - but I'm not sure if dd will make it in year 5. I'd have to do some serious coaching and extra lessons with her or try to get her put down a year into the year she should really be in so she has time to catch up.

Had a massive row with dh on Friday - and this is just at the start of it, my nerves will really be im Eimer at the end of it.

Oh, admylin, I'm sorry that you're feeling low. The next few months are going to be tough for all of you and I hope your dh appreciates what you are going through to help further his career.

Sounds like you've done quite a bit of research already as far as schools and areas to live are concerned. I think you'll have to visit all the areas near the schools you have in mind as soon as possible so that you can see for yourself whether you could imagine living there or not. Will you be buying or renting?

Yes, we will have to go and drive around and look at the schools - problem is we'll have to take the dc out of school because I want to see the schools full of dc and get a feel for the places so it'll have to be in term time. Worst thing is having to find a grundschule and a gymnasium. Should we look to living near the best gymnasium for ds or the grundschule for dd? She will have to get through year 4 then change but I'm not sure if she'll make the grades for gymnasium.

I think finding the most suitable gymnasium/secondary school is a priority as both your dc will be there much longer. Even if you find a really good primary so much is dependent on the individual teacher which you have no control over anyway. What are your dd's marks like at the moment? She may well drop a bit when she changes school (they ought to take this into consideration but probably won't) and it could be worth considering getting her to repeat a year but she may see this as a failure on her part.

We agonised over this last year when we moved dd from the first school she went to. When we first moved here she ought to have gone into Y1 according to her age, but we decided (and the school didn't question this or advise us in any way) that as she was in Y2 in the UK and doing well there, that she would be bored in Y1 so we put her into Y2 here. She then found it really difficult to settle and the teacher kept telling her that she didn't belong in that class and should go down a year. However, by the end of the year she was doing fine and the teacher admitted that she would cope in Y3, but we thought maybe it would be better if she did repeat Y2 when she started the new school so that's what we did. By the end of the first month at the new school the new teacher called me in to see her and said that dd wasn't settling very well and suggested that maybe she would be better off in Y3 which also had the advantage of being quite a bit smaller. I felt like banging my head on the desk in despair at that point, but agreed that if dd wanted to she could try the Y3 class out. Anyway, to cut a long story short she is still in Y3 and doing fine. I don't know if any of that is helpful as I'm still not sure what we could have done differently except for maybe putting her into Y1 to start with.

Thanks taipo, that all seems like good advice. I will have to plan a few days in Hannover with the dc and look around a few Gymnasium then decide on that choice where to live. It is slowly starting to be clearer for me how to go about it.

That sounds as if you and your dd had a hard tim eof it at first. I also heard that the teachers in Germany don't want dc to stay in aclass if too young, they really want to stick to the starting age of 7 and I admit it must be hard in year 1 having kann-kinder and muss-kinder all in one group. Another rule introduced by the govt. without any constructive plan on how to go about it- the same as ganztagschulen.

Do you think this one sounds OK? it's got a bilingual class so that would be something maybe?

www.schillerschule-hannover.de/

On first impressions it looks a lot more traditional/conservative/boring? (and I'm going on really superficial things like the photos of the senior management team!) than the other one you mentioned. Probably has a good solid reputation.

Not sure what to make of the bilingual lessons as I don't know anyone who has any experience of how well it works. I was a bit surprised to read that the classes would be taken by the English teachers (if I've got that right) - I wouldn't have thought they would have enough knowledge of the subject they're supposed to be teaching.

The whole issue of when to start school is quite confusing imo. Certainly dd's last teacher was against it but then I actually had it suggested to me that dd move up a year and in her new school it seems quite common. Last year was a nightmare really and it really seemed that whichever year we chose for dd would be wrong and that is how it turned out! At least she is more settled now and has made good friends in the new class. Ds will start in September as a muss Kind and I'm hoping will find it a lot easier. Trouble is I think only a few children out of each class really have a smooth ride through Grundschule. Most parents I've spoken to have had issues with the school at some point. It's maybe not so different in the UK, there are certainly plently of disgruntled parents there (and I was one of them at times...) but at least you don't get the stress of the selection process in y4 hanging over you all the time.

www.freies-gymnasium-hannover.de/

Prefer the sound of this one. Involves some costs but not excessive and they offer preparatory courses for Grundschulerkinder from year 4 preparing for entrance to Gymnasium. Is it any good?

Good grief taipo, what a horrible time you (and dd) have had of it. Hope it's all plain sailing from here.

grundschulERkinder is good. Sorry you know what I meant.

Why did you have a huge row with dh admylin?

SSSandy also saw that one - thanks for looking for me!

The row started over his way of talking to the dc about their school grades etc - he was brought up in a really crazy system where you only get into the university if you have all top grades because there are so many pupils in his homeland, some subjects at uni have 400 pupils competing for 1 place but it's not like that here and he doesn't get it - well it wouldn't have caused a row usually but I just started shouting at him (quite surprised myself...) but that's what stress does to you. Dd had a test that day and she was nervous enough as it was without him asking her why she wasn't the best in her year... stupid thing to say when she is making such progress and trying hard.

I see. They are feeling pressurised enough the way the school system is organised. I can understand you being annoyed with him. It is stressful the whole business of moving too, isn't it? How are you feeling about it all now?

Is it all definite now then and no chance of him taking up a different offer elsewhere if it came up?

Oh my wise advisor SSSandy please tell me what to say when I contact the schools I have short listed. I have to phone or just turn up? What do I say? Would it be OK to say I'm looking at several schools and want you to show me around and tell me what you have on offer? (This is for ds - the Gymnasium)

When you went round looking at all those schools how did you go about it? Did you ask to speak to the head first because I know how hard it can be to get past the secretaries sometimes!

think when I was born they were running short of wisdom, I didn't get much!

IME of Berlin I think it is not the usual scenario here that you meet the head and get shown round the schools, unless you're looking at the Internationals. They do it as a matter of course. The state schools have an open day and beyond that you ask the secretary for forms etc but they don't feel the need to "sell" their schools to you really, do they? We had to have an interview with the head for the Catholic one because they're private and select their pupils according to their own personal impressions of your family. I didn't see the head at all before moving to the current school, just did the language test and that was it.

Not sure, I might call the secretaries for general info but I think I would write a letter to the head asking for an appointment for a particular week when you will be in Hannover for 3 days or something. I don't think I would necessarily mention that I was viewing various schools in the letter though.

Do you have a short-list of the gymnasia for ds?

tbh with you admylin, I am not sure how I would go about it not being in the town at the time you're looking for schools makes it all very difficult. How does dh propose organising the whole business?

Yes I've found one that has a special science class from year 5 which would suit ds (they usually start that sort of thing in year 7) and a bilingual (abit Europaschule style) class and I think 2 or 3 others in areas that I think would be nice to live in. The IGS Roderbruch that I liked is maybe not so good because it's meant to be in a bad area so I presume the Grundschul section will be abit like inner-city Berlin. I'd rather find a nice school for ds and hope dd makes it to Gymnasium later.

If I write a letter for teh secretaries will you have a look later? Might not manage it today as I've got to do some proof reading for dh's boss which has to be done by this afternoon. I shouldn't be on here now!