German Schools

[finknottle]

Get it off your chest

There are, as anywhere, good and bad aspects to the school system.

So if you want advice, help or an embittered rant - feel free.

On a postive note - anyone see the thread on Primary about security? I've just taken dd to kg and on the way back wanted to drop off a school library book ds2 has had since before Christmas and forgot again.
All I did is walk in, went to his classroom and left it on his PE kit so he'll see it at break.

No one worries unduly about security here. The caretaker has an office (all glass) outside the main building but he's rarely in it.

Is it only village schools? Looks so odd to me to have a school "locked down".

ds1 is angemeldet for phorms (not verbindlich as such so I can still look for other school places). They will contact us about a year before he would be due to start so he can take the entrance test . Don't really agree with selective schooling, certainly not at primary level, but I'm really thinking 'needs must' atm.

well I have my doubts about UK schools when I see some of the postings on here on the primary and HE topics. They may not be better, just have different problems IYSWIM. There is a different approach to primary education, yes, but there is also a kind of authoritarian attitude to the dp which makes it difficult to work with the schools to find some kind of compromise solution. You have to just do what they say and if not, what are you going to do? Take them out and get them put into state care for truancy?

If you have ever come up across unbending German bureaucracy in some Amt where whatever you say and do, they will not help you get something done without such-and-such a paper or whatever the problem is. Schools are like that too with the added anxiety factor that although your dc is suffering because of something or having a problem, no one seems interested, they are just going by the book

All quiet on the school front everyone?

So who has dc booked to go on a Klassenfahrt this year? Dd is going in July for 5 days with her teacher and 1 assistant - so that is 26 dc and 2 adults but she wants to go with all her classmates so I'm letting her. I'll be past myself till she gets back though! They are going to stay in a castle (mini castle!) and horse ride and get some fresh air away from Berlin.

Ds is being offered a trip but half of the parends won't let their dc go because the teacher is useless and unreliable. They are meant to be going to some place where the circus people teach them circus acts etc but ds doesn't seem begeistert at all.

Hi admylin! How are you doing? Well we haven't heard any more on the Klassenfahrt but I told dd that I wasn't sending her on it this year because if something upset her, who would comfort her or solve the problem? I hve no faith in the teachers dealing with that kind of thing but I do trust them not to lose any dc and to organise the whole thing well. I find 7 too young for my dd and she doesn't, as yet, want to go.

Last year dd was 7 and it was too early but she really wants to this year and I know she'll cope but she also has a very competent teacher. With ds I would really worry that some of the dc would get lost and there's no way she woudl get them to go to bed so they'd be exhausted .

Where would you dd's class be going ?

I don't think they have told us yet, somewhere around here in Brandenburg but it was just a short mention, we'll get a letter at some stage with all the details I expect.

Another mum (one of the few German ones) is going in to school today to complain to the head about ds's teacher. Should get noticed too as I've seen the mum in question blow her top at the last parent meeting so I know she can get mad and show it - none of our zurückhaltung and politeness! When I complained recently I think I was too nice and even apologetic.

Possibly it is the cumulative effect of several complaints from diff dp which works. I can imagine if one dp complains, they shrug their shoulders and think "oh that overly-protective or pita dp" but if the complaints keep coming in from diff quarters, they are more likely to take notice?

Do you still have that good supply teacher covering?

Mumsnetters helped us get this list together and now we've translated it can you better-than-me-at-German-mumsnetters please correct our mistakes!

Ds's homework today: 20 Gründe warum man nicht ohne Aufsicht in die Turnhalle gehen darf:

1. Man könnte ein Fuß verletzen
2. Man könnte ein Arm verletzen
3. Man könnte ein Bein verletzen
4. Man könnte ein Kopf verletzen
5. Falls man sich verletzt, könnte die

Schule angeklagt werden

1. Man könnte ein andere Schüler verletzen
2. Niemand ist da um zu helfen bei verletzungen
3. Man könnte den Bock beschädigen
4. Man könnte den Kasten beschädigen

10. Man könnte den Boden beschädigen 11. Etwas könnte gestohlen werden 12. Es ist falsch gegen die Regeln zu verstoßen 13. Keine würde wissen wo du bist falls es Feuer gibt 14. Der Lehrer der nicht abgeschlosen hat könnte Ärger bekommen 15. Man könnte bestraft werden 16. Unschuldige Klassenkamaraden könnten bestraft werden 17. Die Versicherung haftet nicht für unbeaufsichtigte Kinder 18. Die Eltern müssen Kosten für Schaden tragen 19. Schüler müssen die Regeln einhalten 20. Es ist verboten

You can tell I was running out of ideas - hop eit isn't too sarcastic - can the German school teacher really take it?!

I like your list Admylin! I hope the teacher actually takes the timme to read it.
My head is reeling this mornig and I'm in need of a rant. I went to an Elternabend last night at dd's school and I'm still not quite sure what to make of it all. Basically the teacher was really critical of the class, she said there were all sorts of problems with discipline, concentration and that old favourite 'Ordnung' and then said that it was like teaching in a Hauptschule at times . She then realised that that perhaps wasn't a very diplomatic thing to say and started to backtrack a bit, saying that it wasn't really the dc of the parents there last night who were the problem, but obviously she couldn't name any names. So we were all sitting there thinking 'Does she mean my dc or not?'.
What annoyed and surprised me though was that the teacher didn't seem to know how to deal with her class and was putting the onus on the parents who were there last night to persuade their dc to behave in class. She was practically admitting that she was out of her depth. That seemed a bit much to me, I mean I accept that parents do have a responsibility to encourage their dc to behave at school but surely it's the teacher's job to deal with discipline on a day to day basis. Isn't that part of the job? Also, why have a go at all of us last night, shouldn't she be addressing these issues with parents on an individual basis. Or AIBU?
Rant over

Taipo, that sounds as if you've been to the exact same parents evenings that I've been to for ds over the past 2 years! It's a bad feeling though isn't it because you and your dc is sort of stuck with the same teacher and can't change a thing really.

Ds's teacher is really useless and blames it on the class but there are only 14 dc in the class at the moment and they aren't auffällig with other teachers (ie for maths or sport or English) just with the German teacher so it's obvious she is not able to manage them. We've all complained over the years and only now it seems we've been heard and the head teacher has given the class a great new teacher. You wouldn't believe the change in the dc when they come out of school all happy and full of what they've been learning.

There does seem to be a pattern. This is the third parents' evening I've been to now, each with a different teacher and each one has complained about lack of discipline and appeared to blame the parents. The other parents did get quite defensive and I sensed quite an undercurrent of ill feeling towards this teacher, but as a relative novice to the system here I do find it difficult to judge the situation so I just sat there last night and didn't say anything. Also, dd is actually pretty settled atm and getting good marks (she's not so hot on being 'ordentlich' though) so I'm trying to think positively and not get too stressed about it. She does have this teacher for Y4 as well though.
To cap it all, when I came home dh was watching a talk show on the shortcomings of the education system.

hi

ds is on a very long list for kindergarten
not sure at all

Well a lot may happen in the next month or two

Hope Everyone is well and will read back later
trying not to be on the computer very much

Hi Cinderella, I read your posts about you trying to find a place for ds. I hope it all works out for you.

hi everyone!

Good luck with everything cinders. Mainly good luck with moving out.

Admylin is that list still aktuell or have you handed it in already? What stupid homework though, if you ask me. Maybe you could copy it into the bilingual topic

Taipo, I wondered if the teacher was covering her tracks because she was behind with the curriculum. The big thing for teachers here is getting through the curriculum it seems. I think they probably don't learn great classroom management skills here during their training and the classes are often too big, the work too unchallenging. So if a teacher is good at this, it's because of their manner/personality I think rather than skills they've been taught I know some people who studied auf Lehramt here and they all said the Pädagogik they had to do at university was useless. I dunno maybe it isn't all that "hand-on"?

One problem I think is the approach - one size fits all. They don't accommodate pupils who are more advanced as a rule,so they get their work done fast and sit there bored, which leads to disruption. Some are totally lost, some are bored and the classes are too big.

Have you asked your dd if she finds it diff to concentrate in class because of the noise sometimes, how the dc behave etc?

If the class is loud and disruptive, I don't see what the dp can do about it other than work at home to pass on the idea that it is important to listen to/respect the teacher. What more can you realistically do?

I reckon she was having a go at you to fob off any possible attacks from the dp. Attack as the best form of defence

Yes the list had to go back today but ds found a couple of things even that needed correction - so when he thinks about it he already speaks perfect German. I have given up trying to write perfect German - atleast you don't recognise I'm foreign when I speak it, not at first anyway.

I loved the variations on I broke a... theme. Hilarious.

I went to the Kieferorthopäde again today to discuss the plan of action. He was very nice. Do you know he spent the last 7 years in the UK whilst I spent my martyrium here and his wife forced him to come back. He has a 7 year old dd too so guess what topic we spend half an hour complaining gassing on about?! You guessed it schools!

Don't like the sound of this brace and me having to somehow screw it tight twice a day but it seems I was at fault for letting her have a dummy too long and that has caused the upper jaw to be raised at the front and thus narrowed on one side. I could have kicked myself. Why doesn't anyone ever warn you about these things? After 6 months this one comes out and then we get braces to put in and out every day apparently.

Wondering what happens if we go overseas (hope hope hope) if they will be able to just continue the treatment he has started?

He says he much preferred living in the UK and working there too. Finds work very slow here in comparison but you have to keep the woman happy. Hört hört!

So is your ds' supply teacher here to stay then?

Well the latest news is that the old teacher's pile of papers and Ablage in the class room has GONE. So does that maybe mean she has packed her stuff together and left? We hope so but could just have taken it to do some work at home? I doubt it though as she was never very organised so why would she start now.

Did your dentist tell you where he sends his dd to school? How long did your dd have a dummy? Ds had one for ages but he hasn't got any problems because of that - his teeth are genetic copies of his dad's!

Yes he did, it's a village school on the outskirts of Berlin with French as first foreign language. It's not much good academically either but they had her put up a year so she is in year 3 atm and that seems about right from the Niveau. They are lovely people.

She could be gone but wouldn't they send you all a letter notifying you that you have a new teacher? Maybe after the Easter break. Good luck!

Yes, she had the dummy in a lot and it was hard work getting it off her in the end. I feel very guilty that it is my fault.

Dh just applied to Newcastle in UK so my hopes are still high then it won't bother me what the old rotten teacher does! I want my dc to wear a uniform , was in my dream recently - I was taking a photo of them in their school uniforms to send to the relatives in the US!

Are you not picking dd up at 2 today?

Sssandy, you're spot on I think. Everything you said rings true, and the phrase 'attack is the best form of defence' came to my mind yesterday. I think at least a couple of parents there last night are teachers themselves and although they refrained from really having a go at the teacher you could tell they weren't happy with the situation. At the end of the meeting there were about 4 mums who all went off into a sort of huddle, no doubt to discuss what is going on. Oh, I don't know, perhaps I'm just making too much of it all, but of the 3 meetings I've been to this was the most unpleasant and it's not as if there was much to live up to.

need to leave around 1.15ish admylin and get there on time.

Taipo what are your class reps like (Elternvertreter) and do you have a class list with the phone numbers? What ours do is organise a meet-up about 2-3 weeks ahead of an Elternabend. Everyone who goes (I have never made it) discuss the issues they have, what they want to bring up at the meeting. Then the Elternvertreter send us all an email with a list of points they are going to raise, changes they want made. I think that's quite good because everyone knows what to expect and is prepared to back them when they raise those points IYSWIM?

Otherwise what you get at these Elternabende is one person raising a point, no one backing them up and the teacher glossing over it; although in reality most dp are probably concerned about the very same issue, they don't want to be perceived as trouble-makers in case it backfires on their dc.

I have the suspician some dp had already spoken individually to your teacher about their concerns and that is why she was defensive expecting trouble. However unfortunately, you do seem to really need to fight all the changes through, don't you?

www.thecenter-berlin.de/english/ferien/fstart.html

btw admylin these people are near you. THey have interesting sounding musical workshops and things in English. Maybe your dd would like to do something there?