Large house & independent schooling

[Yumyummyyum]

Hi,

If you are able to afford both these things comfortably could you tell me where you live? We are both high earning professionals but we currently live in cramped London housing and can’t see that we will be able to move up the properly ladder here. We would like to be able to afford a decent sized house 4/5 bed semi or detached and good (private) education for our children. Ideally somewhere that is diverse/cosmopolitan. Obviously lots of other factors to consider but I would love some pointers so I can look at whether we might have opportunities in other places that might offer these things. Thanks!

@emeraldcity2000 Our local prep school is actually much more ethnically diverse than our local state school!

The vast majority of people in Dubai are not obsessed with designer labels. Yes some are but you just avoid them, like you would do in London. I don't think I've yet met someone who's not rolling their eyes at Dubai Bling for example (and that includes lots of people similarly wealthy).

I would stay in/near London and compromise on size if necessary. Honestly think that planning to move to Malaysia or Dubai simply for property prices and schools is letting the tail wag the dog. (Not that it’s a bad idea bill to move to either place- just seems an odd reason for such a big change).

Also think that you need to think about more than state/private with schools. A private international school in Dubai, say, is a very different prospect from a traditional English public school. Even within Britain there is far more variation within the private system than there is difference between private and state. I understand that your husband is set on private education but this is only one thing you need to think about.

I think you need to be realistic that London isn’t exceptionally expensive for a world capital and you’re going to face the same set of choices if you move abroad - essentially if you want a large house you’re going to have to have a long commute or or move to a “second tier” city but wages and job availability may be lower.

Newcastle upon Tyne.
Friendly University city, lots going on. Gorgeous countryside and coastline nearby.

With that income you could have a lovely big house in Gosforth, great private schools for reasonable prices an easy cycle away for the kids (E.g. The RGS is 15k per year for secondary).

3 hours from LKX by direct train.
Frequent flights to London and Amsterdam from local airport, daily flight to Dubai.
Lots of people near us work from home/hybrid for London-based companies and do a day or two in the office as needed.

In Singapore you can only buy a landed house if you're a citizen, as a foreigner you can rent one but expect to pay rent upwards of $10,000 per month. Alternatively a 4 bedroom condominium would easily cost you $3 million, or rent one for at least $6000.

International school fees will cost you another $50k annually per child.

At current exchange rates you'll probably have a comfortable life but I don't think it'll be that different from what you are enjoying currently.

Whats the reason why your DH wants to go for private education? I can understand why foreigners want to send their kids to private school (its for the experience). I can understand why some second generation immigrants with bad experiences of inner city comprehensives might be determined to give their kids a leg up. I can understand why you would want to send your kids to certain 'elite schools' like St Paul's or Westminster etc (cos it really does look amazing) but you are only in the position to have that viewpoint if they actually get in. I can also understand if they have some special SEN needs or if the child is gifted in some extracurricular activity not available on the state sector.

But the majority of Oxbridge students come from state schools. And Oxbridge would continue to admit more state pupils. Of course, state schools are quite uneven; its unfair but the best state schools tend to be grammar schools esp in London/SE, sixth form colleges or faith schools. For primary, they tend to be in leafy suburbs/expensive areas/faith schools. So in a sense, the private option may allow you to access education at a minimum standard, but there are high quality state options at the same time which could achieve the same result at a lower price and there would be no perceived disadvantaged when applying to oxbridge. Of course not everyone can access these top comprehensives but being in London, you are in the best position to access them...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/27/top-private-schools-see-oxbridge-success-rate-plummet-amid-diversity/

@Lalanana Yeah I really don’t know if the Dubai stereotype is correct. Two people that we know in Dubai are very materialistic by nature and it has probably made them worse. I think that colours DH view of the whole place and he assumes everyone is like that out there which is likely not true.

@HappyOnions For those who are saying the private schools aren’t as good internationally, could you tell me a little more about how? We aren’t looking at anything like Eton or any of the schools used by the super wealthy. The schools near us are mostly for children off professional parents. They have good strong academic standards, decent facilities and good extra curriculars on offer.

@SherryPalmer Completely open to the idea that there might not to more on offer elsewhere but want to at least explore the idea in case there are better options, so I do appreciate everyone’s input :)

Lothians. Or some parts of Edinburgh would seen v affordable to you coming from London. Edinburgh more diverse than the Lothians but it’s getting there.

We’re in a small town in East Lothian. V affordable. Although other towns can be a lot more pricey. Independant schools here. And big selection in Edinburgh.

DH commutes to Edinburgh and I WFH. Good train links to London.

@Yumyummyyum I’m not saying that international schools are less good. My point is that not all private schools are the same, and that includes international private schools. Your husband is set on private education but more than that you need to think about the sort of school you want. Moving half way round the world simply so you can afford private schooling without any sense of what the particular school is like would be a bad idea. I’d add that my experience (as a former ex pat) is that schools full of ex pats have high turnover- would that bother you?

If you want private, there is something to be said for living somewhere with a range of good, varied private schools, so that you have a choice.

I had a four bed, four reception detached with a pool on the Isle of Wight. The value of that would barely get me a two bed flat where I live now in zone 3. Ryde School is non selective but gets decent results.

@socialmedia23
He feels he has to give his children what his parents gave him. They came here as immigrants and put 4 children through private school. If he can’t do the same for his 2 then he has failed. Honestly, I’ve tried to talk him through it and he has spoken to his therapist about it but he can’t shake that feeling. Personally, I had a mixture of state, private and grammar school education and my view is that if you’re bright and hard working it’s better to be in an environment where other students are motivated and there’s some parental support rather than one where you are mocked for working hard and your lessons are constantly disrupted. I’m also not sure how long the grammar system in this country will last. It seems to get more and more competitive and yet there’s so much anti grammar school sentiment too. The prep school we have chosen here is lovely and we both really like it but then we have to compromise on the house.

Have you looked at jobs in the middle east that would provide housing and school fees as part of package?
I have friends who did this and took pre schoolers out to middle east, worked until kids secondary age, saved really hard as had tax free wages ,rented out the small London flat and saved that too.
Then came back ..savings funded school fees here for secondary.
They sold flat and got small mortgage and bought big detached house near the school they'd chosen in midlands.

I think for your careers and up lift in wfh you should be able to get what you want here.

It won’t be zone two London but many do it with similar

Moving o/s for this set up doesn’t sound that much better and going for a non London salary will be lower

What do you mean by an International City (I’ve not heard that before🤷‍♀️). Does it mean close to an airport?

@Yumyummyyum - it will depend on where you go. But where we live the government funds schools really well, so they have all the facilities.
The international schools are basically where expats go who just want English language education. They can have less facilities in some cases that government.

ie dh went to local secondary recently to help set up some tech department stuff. It’s all focused now on stem subjects, high tech laboratories, fancy sport facilities. We know some people who teach there, and the numbers are smaller ie 12-14 children max in a class v international private now 20+.

Sorry... you're considering various destinaitons abroad purely for house and indepedent schooling? If those are the two reasons driving a move, you'll find plenty of options in the UK, as suggested by previous posters.

@Yumyummyyum I found academically they weren’t on a par, for English especially. Some subjects my DC were ahead when we got back (into state school) but only marginally. There is such a transitional element in the ME so lots of new children starting and lots leaving which can change the dynamic rapidly within a class. Class sizes were more like 24/25 than under 20 which all the private’s I looked at here were. Also a lot of turnover of teachers.

There’s a lot of positives too though - the extra curriculars were great, facilities amazing. I loved that my DC had friends from every culture, country and religion.

Look at Shropshire

OP the reason many if not most international schools are not great compared to good private schools here is down to a few things.
A) people who choose private here generally prioritise education. International schools have a mix of people who end up there simply due to parents working abroad. The school fees may be part of the package. They don't necessarily the same personal focus on education
B) international schools have a much higher turnover of students. This means there is far less pressure on the schools to teach well as there is little accountability for the school as they haven't had the pupils all the way through so any failure in achievement can be seen as not their fault.
C) most cities have limited international schools. They aren't required to compete in the same way hey are here. In the UK, the league tables are a huge part of what makes a school over it under subscribed. In international schools, people go there simply because they need an international school.
D) teachers have it pretty good at international schools. I've know. Several teachers with terrible attitude towards professionalism. They were clearly in the job because it paid well and not because they were passionate about teaching.
Having said all this, there are good international schools and good teachers. It's just not so consistent or reliable.

Surely if you earn that much wouldn't you be able to afford it where you already are...

We are on the East Coast of Canada and have both of your criteria. It's affordable

Thanks for the insights on international schools! Something I wasn’t aware off.

For those who are saying to stay in the U.K, the ethnic diversity point is really important to us. I know there are places a bit further out from London where we could get a bigger home but I also don’t want my children to have the experiences of racism that DH brother and sister had when their parents moved to an area which had very few people who weren’t white. Perhaps some of the other cities like Manchester, Leeds etc might be worth exploring. I need to see if housing in good areas is affordable and what job prospects are like.

@idonotmind If you don’t mind sharing, whereabouts in Canada? Our family in Canada seem to be so much better off in terms of incomes and housing. I have heard the Toronto housing market is crazy though. Weather is also a bit off putting but no where is perfect I guess. I’ve also heard it’s very difficult to qualify under their immigration scheme?

Will your legal qualifications be valid in other countries.
You best bet is probably to speak to overseas specialized recruitment consultants and see what follows. And research likely salaries and housing in countries of interest. Some eg Switzerland are more expensive that Uk and have conditions to non permanent residents buying housing
For short term, 2-4 years, postings some companies will pay for schooling. Depends on the package, how senior you are etc.