Anyone living in South Africa or had babies in SA

[fiona76]

My DH is south african and I'm from New Zealand we live in London and have for last 7 years. We just had our first baby, DD is 7 weeks old. We are thinking of moving to SA and i was wondering if anyone has experience of the maternity care there.

oh yes, don't know if you have seen my other posts, WE ARE GOING BACK

I am so glad I have stumbled across this thread, I hope you don't mind it become more about the returning to SA!??!!?
I have been here 12 years and am desperate to go back. DH was born here but grew up there. We have an 18MO DS and a tiny 1 bed flat in London. We have just accepted an offer on it, and are going to go to CT to live for 3 months and see how we feel. We are thinking of it as a "putting feelers out" holiday. The ONLY negatives are my fear of violence and the dodgy political situaion, obviously. SO SO good to hear you girls talk about it, especially you, Michtenstein! Has really helped ease my "am I doing the right thing?" panic attacks!
Where about in CT are you? We are going to be in Gardens.

Tasja, CONGRATULATIONS!!! when?

I will go in Feb or beginning March to look for a teaching post. DH will return July/August because he has to tie up this here and pay off our debt. he will save alot if I'm not here - on rent, council tax exct.

Tasja,
Can you please provide a link to your chat thread, I can't see it!

ta

can't do a link don't know how

just look under chat and the heading is OMG I've got fabulous news. but we can chat here if you want to, Or I'll see you in chat.

I'm a bit worried about the crime but TBH i have never felt unsafe in SA I'e been twice once for 2 months we tripped around in a combi slept on the beach etc. once for 5 weeks when we drove the entire country in a rental car.
last time we were there we went to a sokke (sp?) i loved it -it was soooo funny to me. FIL was waiting to pick us up at the end even though it was a 10 min walk away from home. i felt lke a teenager. MIL made him come.

It is one of those things, you need to be vigilent but you must not stop living your life.
I guess it is all a matter of balance, and the beaches, sun and good wine more than make up for it!

Hi,

I live in CT with DS1, DS2 and DD (she is the only one of my babies born in SA).

Plus side:

Good (if expensive) private medical system
Lovely large house
Domestic help at home
Lovely weather
Great antenatal services if you are pregnant - beware though, if you want an intervention free birth you have to be prepared to really stand firm. CS rates are over 85% and there are many OB's who will not take you on as a patient if you want a natural birth. Had DD here at one of the better maternity units in CT and it was fab!

Minus:

The crime - it is SHOCKING. Many affluent South Africans just stick their head in the sand and pretend it is not so bad. It is bad, in fact it's terrible. I hate, hate, hate not feeling secure in my own home. Worrying myself to death if I haven't set the alarm properly etc. The lady I work for lives in a township (nice word for a slum), the stories she tells me would turn your hair grey.

The poverty - another thing just brushed under the carpet. 70% of the earning population live on the breadline. Homeless, drug dependent children are a fact of life and seen on most street corners.

HIV/AIDS: They say that 1 in three adult South Africans is either infected with the disease or has been exposed to it. This means that it is inescapable. My Domestic Workers' husband is positive - she is negative. We are working together to make sure she is provided for when we emigrate to Australia. She has four kids and has no idea how she will get by when/if his disease progresses to full blown AIDS. She has no medical care and they are totally reliant on a government system.

Corruption: The government is in disarray - google Jacob Zuma if you want some more information.

Unemployment: A white, male is the lowest of the low on the employment ladder. It's getting better as the government acknowledges that the Affirmative Action policies it implemented to help the previously disadvantaged groups and give them a chance to improve themselves. Due to a massive brain drain and exodus of skilled South Africans there are now initiatives in place to relax the "AA" regulations. So finding work - whilst not quite as easy in SA as in the UK is not impossible. Must be noted that it is far easier in JHB than Cape Town but that's a whole different story.

It may seem as if I am being horribly negative, but these are the facts of life in South Africa.

It's a wonderful, incredibly beautiful and vast country. The indigenous people are just amazing.

I am heartbroken that it will not afford my children the lives they deserve and we feel compelled to move away to give them this.

Just another viewpoint really.

Oh and one last thing - for me it is one of the worst things about living in South Africa - the roads.

During the festive season - Dec 1 to January 3rd there were a shocking 1142 deaths on the roads.

You literally put your life in the hands of the Gods everytime you leave the house.

Carseats are considered a luxury. Of all my friends, only the ones who have lived overseas use them at all. Most people just carry their baby out of the hospital with them and drive home with them in their arms . Kids standing between the front seat on the motorway is totally normal and it makes my blood boil.

As my Dad says - "that's living in Africa" and he's right. If you want to live in South Africa and enjoy it, you have to, to a large extent close your eyes and ears to all the things I have mentioned.

Good luck.

aw.
It breaks my heart that it is that way, we are going there to live for 3 months and will then decide wether to stay or come back to the UK. I have no emotional connection to Oz or NZ so don't think I could consider it.

How long have you been back in CT?

Hi,

DH is SA born. I moved here when I was a baby and was schooled here.

We moved to the UK 1992/3 and left in 2004 - so been back here for 3+ years.

We don't have any emotional ties to NZ/Oz - in fact we don't know one, single soul in Brisbane (where we are headed).

Where in SA are you moving to.

We have a flat in Cape Town, in gardens,
we want to refurb it to a high standard as a holiday rental. Whilst there working we will take a view.
I have a friend who has recently moved from CT to Brisbane, her DH has just accepted a teaching post as a University on the Gold Coast, so they will be there soon. (Not sure, is Brisbane on the Gold Coast?)

My brother and his family are moving from Durban to Melbourne this month, so I will have that connection. I hate the thought of my parent's not having any of their kids in the same country as them

I am so torn about this, my stomach is in knots all the time, I just wish something felt 100% right! But I feel the best thing to do is try it before I rule it out.

When you off to Oz? Was it an easy decision to make?

Hmm.. the ob's that won't allow women to have naturals really peeves me off. Before I got pregnant, I remember my gynae in Cape Town telling me she couldn't understand why women wanted to have water births since humans are land mammals and should give birth on land and not in water.
I had a gorgeous water birth here in the UK, and plan to have one for my second in SA.

Of course, still have to convince DH that a second baby is a good idea, even though I will moan for 9 months about my fat ankles, lack of energy and nausea; put him through another birth (funny...he didn't seem to share the same sentiment about our son's entrance into the world)and complain bitterly about sore nipples and lack of sleep for the next 9 months.

When I suggested we start trying for number 2 at the end of this year, he suggested we adopt

I agree that what you say is true dejags. Except with that there are not street kids on every corner. Well not where I live! A lot of hawkers selling anything from paintings, bags, kid toys etc, can be found at most major lights (not in my suburb though only on leaving). There are sometimes beggars but most seem to have a gimmick, carry a dirt bag for rubbish(one in my suburb )or sell jewelry, or funny money(jokes) for change or food. I have not seen many streetkids on the roads. There are some boys often begging at the canal walk interchange - maybe I dont get out enough. I dont go into town much and tend to go touristy paces so maybe I live in a 'different' world. Having said all that I find hout bay the pits, lots of joblessness and lots of people on the roads waiting for work.

I am actualy quite upset by the negativeness in your post, I am not quite sure why to be honest. I suppose I tend to like to believe the best when I can. My experience is just not like yours. Yes i probably do stick my head in the sand about many issues but no more so than any otherproperty owning person word wide does about these issues imo. I dont think it serves anypoint to be fixated on them. I know that they are a reality and a problem in the country I choose to live in but that doesnt change my experience of them, which is very little.

I do beleive that by living here and earning a good wage paying taxes etc that we are part of the system that improves the lives of everysouth african. As the economy grows so business invests here and brings more cash with it providing more jobs. tourism is s huge thing here - it has gotten so big and brings in money and work. Even the people we employ - our char and garden service, means that we are supporting famiies directly that otherwise would have no means of income shoud we choose to go live elsewhere.

Yes the road deaths are horrid. I think alot to do with the cheap unsafe cars driven here and the fact that many people use minibus taxis which have no seatbelts so when involved in an accident fatalities are very high. People here just do not get car seats i have seen so many kids standing on seats, sitting on parents laps in the front. and been shocked at people buying 'really cheap' car seats on specia because they are really cheap. They look as if they would never pass any safety test...

Some of the things that are great about living here (cape town)include being so close to a lot of very vibey stuff. lots of art, design, 'cultured' stuff. With all the new money here, creative people can support themselves painting, making cothes jewelry etc in a way that didnt exsist 8 years ago. Returning south Africans with cash to buy like to buy local, and its great to be able to go to shops started by young people selling their own stuff and doing well. I find that exciting. Also the fact that the hawkers at the lights are very often dressed more trendy them my husband most days, is great. There is musch less of that poverty mentality that was here some years ago, people seem more full of possibility and come up with ways of making money.

I dont really know what else to say

sorry I rambled on

Michtenstein,
It is that emerging creativity that I am interested in. I work as an interior designer here, and my husband is a furniture designer. In order to get by here we have to do jobs we don't really like. I am hopeful we can make something for ourselves there! That is what we are going to look into in our 3 months there.
It is a tough decision.

Interesting about the water birth though, I had one here and would def like to do that with the 2nd which may be there!

I feel we have slightly hijacked the original thread, should we start another one somewhere? Or does OP not mind????

Sleepisfortheweak - we are off to Brisbane anytime before June. Our visa has to be validated by the 25th June so that's our deadline. At end of the day we all live with what makes us happy - and you know what if that's South Africa, make sure you enjoy it to the full because it's an incredible country.

Michenstein, I know what I have said is negative. Believe me, I don't want to be negative, but these are realities of life. There are indeed street children on most street corners in the less affluent areas. There is a fine line between negativity and reality.

As I said, I am heartbroken about the fact that South Africa will just not "cut the mustard" in the long term for us. This is my home, it's where I grew up, it's the place I call home.

What I find more heartbreaking though is the myriad souls in this country who don't have choices. The sadness that ultimately pervades the vibey street cafe culture. I just cannot see beyond the desparate state of the majority of the population. It's not me being negative, it's just a reality I cannot ignore.

My friend Nomakaya is a classic example. On the outside she seems happy, on the inside she just struggles by because she has to. She doesn't complain about her 15ft x 12ft corrugated iron house (which sleeps 6) because she is better off than most. She doesn't complain about her 4 hour commute to and from work each day - she's just grateful for the income. The fact that dead bodies are a regular sight in her area. The fact that her husband has HIV and will die sooner than he should because the state wont give him the correct regime of drugs because there isn't enough money.

Noma couldn't even imagine the luxury of being a SAHM to her four beautiful children. They stay at home unattended every afternoon because there is nobody to watch them - although the neighbours are good.

I wish I was stronger and I could stay to make a difference. Sadly, I'm a bit of a coward at heart and I feel compelled to look after my family first.

The Noma's of South Africa deserve better.

Now I am in tears so I'll go - this is a subject so close to my heart.

I am sorry if I upset you Michenstein. That truly was not my intention.

Dejags,
you have obviously thought long and hard about this. It is a hard thing to do and you ultimately have to do what you think is best for your family, you are by no means a coward.
I think we all hope that things will improve. My friend who went to Oz had gone for 2 years to get a passport for her daughter so that in the future she will have choices. They have not ruled out returning.
In fact, she told me that SA families often return after the 2 years.
The world is getting smaller and nothing is final, and we have no way of knowing if what we are thinking of doing is right until we try it.

If only we had a government of people we could rely on.

x

It is so interesting to hear all of your opinions. Don't start a new thread stay here. My DH is very optimistic about SA and is a bit blind to the problems, I'm more realistic but willing to give it a try because if it is good it could be very very good.

Sorry dejags - I guess we all feel abit sensitive about it. I used to battle lie you and really could not enjoy myself when driving past informal settlements, imagining only horror and terrror and dpression. Truly all my life I have felt very sensitively about that. For what ever reason i lnow feel differently about it. I dont now why, what has changed whether it is me or the country I dont now.

once again sorry for over reacting - I hope things work out well for you in oz.

I think it?s important to be aware of the realities.

I grew up in south Africa but we returned to the UK in 1993. I would desperately love to go back for a holiday but I don?t think I could ever go back there to live.

While we lived out there, and after coming home it was very easy to look at the positives. The outdoor lifestyle, the sun, the scenery, the lovely people, but it?s also easy to lose sight of the negatives, the security issues, having to barricade yourself into your home, not being able to walk the streets alone, public transport not being safe, and those are things I simply couldn?t go back to, and especially wouldn?t want to go back to with young children.

I have south African friends who have decided not to have children because they do not believe it is a good place to raise a family, given the crime rate etc. I have a friend whose husband was shot on his farm purely because he was white, and I have a friend who has been mugged at gunpoint twice.
Something like 1500 white farmers have been killed there over the past 5 years, but these are figures that are generally not made public. A lot of people believe south Africa will be the next Zimbabwe .

At the time I left I wanted to stay, my life was there and I couldn?t imagine leaving it behind, but now I don?t think I could go back.

thing is, it is a changing country isn't it.
Do you think it is getting worse? Surely it is improving?
I remember as a teenager during the apartheid era, that we were taught to always check under our tables at restuarants for bombs before sitting down! We did not just have fire drills at school, we had terrorist drills too. If that alarm sounded we had to hide under our desks and not make any noise - pretend we weren't there !!!?!?? That does not happen anymore.
Of course it HAD TO CHANGE, for obvious reasons.

SIFTW - the change was something that couldn't be averted. My only wish was that it happened in 1974 and not 1994 .

Sadly there are a lot of things that are worse now e.g:

Violent crime - this is a fact of life in Sub-Saharan Africa
HIV Aids - the disease will have a devastating impact on the country and the economy
Corruption in the government - it's no more or less corrupt now - it's just different and more overt. Jackie Selebi National Police Commissioner and Head of Interpol has today resigned amid even more allegations of corruption. We won't even mention our prospective new President, Jacob Zuma (awaiting trial for corruption, fraud and recently aquitted for rape).
Rape - rape... it's just an everyday occurence in South Africa. They can't even manage the statistics because women don't even bother reporting it (some say as high ast 1 in 4 (I kid you not) have been raped.

The list is endless. The thought that is getting better for the disenfranchised and vulnerable is a wishful one.

The very tiny minority of rich people are getting immeasurably richer at the expense of the poor.

Some things are improving:

The tourist industry is growing and this lends itself to the glamorous and vibrant shopping centres, tourist attractions, hotels and a top notch infrastructure (by African standards).

The country's natural beauty is something that will never be taken away by corrupt politicians, poverty or disease. It is, to my mind the most beautiful and diverse country in the world.

There is a slow uptake of foreign investment - fuelled by slightly more progressive economic policies. This will, given time, contribute significantly to the overall economy.

I have lived in Scotland for 32 years and still hanker for the sun and warmth of Africa... I was born in Zim, lived for two years in Durban, and have visited family since, most of which are in Jo'burg or Cape Town (also Knysna).

Would never set foot in Jo'burg again, love Cape Town but feel far too insecure there to move with my children and would never plan a birth there, let alone a VBAC.

Would be VERY interested to hear of your experiences of birth there, especially of VBAC, so that I may learn and be able to offer good information to others.