Milan?

[whatcangowrong]

Any experiences of living in Milan? Or alternatively Monza? Not interested in experiences of wider Italy but hoping to find someone who has lived there with young kids who could recommend schools, how to find a nanny, whether any nice suburbs etc. We (will) have 3 kids, 3, 1 and one on the way. Need to get them into international school kindergarten I assume but any left field suggestions of English speaking bilingual nurseries etc much appreciated.

We have 1 good job offer which is pretty compelling on its own, looking for something for me now though I'll be on mat leave at the start.

We will be supported with rent and moving costs, leasing a car etc, so life should be relatively easy for us financially. Not a stealth boast but just to avoid lots of people saying how crap it is for these types of reasons!

Other difficulties that our employers can't solve for us would be great to hear about. Eg making friends. Healthcare. Etc.

TIA x

You've posted this on 4 different threads.

Thanks for the helpful input . I've created my own thread specific to Milan and current. I've then replied to a few other threads, none specific to Milan and some of which were over 10 years old as a just in case. I think that's reasonable?!

Ps it was only 3 threads one of which is the one I started.

A search for "Milan" on here mostly brings up debate as to whether it's suitable as a oonique boys' name. So useful to cast the net a bit wider.

Hello, I’ve lived in both with young kids.
Why don’t you put them in Italian preschool? They’re young enough to pick up the language with no effort, and that’s good for their development even if you don’t plan on staying long term. In Monza all private preschools are Catholic, however, in Milan there’s a lot more choice. For the public schools you will need to register and select your choice of school the year before they start. Most people go to the school nearest their home, you can apply outside your district but you won’t be a priority for a place.

The International School in Monza doesn’t have a great reputation, they prioritise money over quality of education, but it’s probably more of a problem for later years. I don’t think there are any bilingual schools left in Monza, maybe a couple of nurseries but the quality is hit and miss.

In Milan there is English only preschool at the BSM (pricey), St Louis, the ISM (both just as pricey) and there is bilingual at the Andersen school (less expensive). In Milan too a lot of bilingual nurseries have sprung up but again, the quality varies a lot.

If you’re thinking of having your baby here, the antenatal care is more thorough than the U.K. although the birth is more medicalised. Healthcare is good on the whole, plus many Italian contracts have private healthcare schemes included. Will you be on a local contract? If not you’ll need to pay for healthcare separately, I seem to remember my self-employed friend had to pay something like €750 a year for her health card and thus access to public healthcare services. Mind you that was many years ago so who knows what it is now.

If you live in Milan you won’t need a car, especially in the centre it’s a pain because of the congestion charge. There are a lot of car sharing schemes which are reasonable. Alas this hasn’t reached Monza, which despite being only 15km from Milan in many ways is light years behind.

Friends-if you have small children you will make friends. Do you speak Italian? Most Milanese speak some English, at times very well, but Italian will help a lot. There are expat groups but they do tend to be full of trailing spouses who don’t work and organise coffee mornings at 10am when most of us with a job are at work. This is very true for Monza, a bit less so for Milan. I’m no great expert, I tend to shy away from these groups, my experience was from being invited along to coffee mornings and the like when people heard me speaking English to DD. When I was young, free and single I used to go out for after work aperitivi with friends and neighbours and met loads of people that way too. Italians are happy to chat, or at least that’s been my experience (still is).

Sorry for the huge ramble, if you need to know anything specific then maybe PM me.

Milan is a great city, there is loads to do and it’s got even more cosmopolitan in the last few years (before lockdown anyway). Monza is pretty and has a lovely park and the royal palace, but compared to Milan it is quite provincial. Plus of course you’re only a short drive from the lakes and mountains for hiking and skiing.

@Melassa thanks so much for taking the time! It's all very helpful to know and changes some of my preconceptions. Although I definitely think we do need a car with 3 kids as getting car seats in and out of rentals or shared cars does not appeal! and those trips to the lakes/mountains definitely do!

Italian pre school is a possibility, I think I'd be tempted to do Italian nursery for the younger 2 maybe before they even really start speaking so that they don't feel lost because they don't understand. I guess they would pick lots up that way. I was selfishly thinking I might make more friends at the international school gates! But also would be a lot easier to navigate the admin... I speak zero Italian presently but would try to learn. Thanks for passing on that the monza IS might not be great though. Obvs their website says it's the best school in the world!

Good to know re the trailing spouses and coffee mornings. I definitely want to work if only to avoid doing all of the childcare! What do you make of monza as a place aside from the expat side of things? Is there a vibe at all? Would interesting Italian people live there or would it be considered a bit boring? My Italian friend said a bit like Guildford which put me off a bit! Don't know why as guildford is considered quite an aspirational place to live really! The pictures looks lovely but if it's in reality just a park and a duomo and nothing much going on maybe it's better to be in Milan.

Rent is eye watering from what I can see so far. 4K eur a month for a very run down looking apartment in either place. This is currently my biggest concern. I think I could be happy most places so long as I loved my home surroundings. I'll struggle to enjoy a dated apartment with a creaky lift and a lot of garish cold marble surfaces. We

Oh goodness where are you looking for rental? €4k a month doesn’t sound right, unless you’re looking for a villa. Are you looking for a quadrilocale (3 bedrooms) or larger? If larger that might be why, there are not many around. A lot of Italian siblings share a room, even up to teenage and different sexes at times. Where do you need to commute to? If they’re showing you marble then it’s what they consider “signorile” therefore pricey. The creaky lifts are also viewed as art nouveau jewels and are often sought after. There are plenty of other types of apartment from other eras. Try immobiliare.it, although I don’t know if they have a version in English.

Monza is a bit Tunbridge Wells. It’s very Catholic and a bit bigoted. Despite my DD going to primary there most of the friends I made at the school gates were incomers from elsewhere, like me, I found the local parents quite hard going. Milan is much better in that respect. Possibly because most people living there are incomers from somewhere!

For your 3yo the scuola materna (preschool 3-6) is entirely doable. At that age they pick up language like sponges, plus Italian schools do supply language support. At my DD’s primary there was a girl who arrived from Iran with no Italian, in under 6 months she was fluent and that was age 9. There was a 1-1 for the first weeks to help her.
Monza IS portrays itself as wonderful, but I have a couple of friends who pulled their kids out of there due to ongoing discipline issues and a total lack of entry criteria, only to discover when they moved them to the BSM/St Louis in Milan that the level of their English was so low they needed to do ESL classes. This after 6 years of primary plus preschool. There were others with the same experience. Lack of entry criteria meaning they were accepting 14yo with very little English, other schools have a cut off and a minimum level of English otherwise the pupil would never manage the curriculum.

@Melassa - dh will be working near porta garibaldi, so if Milan we are thinking living either north or east of the centre near the international school and work but we haven't been yet to do a look see. If monza then the train comes in to the right place.

So interesting and slightly horrifying to hear that about monza is. How up to date is this info? Also good to know re the bigoted/catholic vibes. Husband is quite set on the idea that this is the solution with kids but I'm getting increasingly bad gut feeling about it! We are going to spend a bit of time in both though, and view the schools.

Re apartments, yes we want at least 3 beds ideally 4/5. With both of us working and 3 under 3 we think we will need potentially a live in nanny, tbc here and by no means definite, but we both have pretty full on jobs and that's certainly what we would be doing if we were staying in London. Also want to be able to host grandparents when they visit, etc. And fine for 2 kids to share but thought 3 a bit much! I've only looked online so far but a bit horrified by the selection. Will keep looking and of course sometimes these things are better in person - I get the feeling the agents spend less attention on getting nice photos than in uk and often they're pictured empty so look utterly soulless. We will surely find something we like!

In Monza most expats live around the Villa Reale which is fairly nice but there really is no vibe at all. I still live here (albeit nowhere near the Villa Reale). To illustrate, when we go out, either as a family or with local friends, we tend to go to Milan or elsewhere. Deliveroo in Monza has pizza, kebab and all you can eat Chinese restaurants, in Milan you can select from all over the world. If you’re coming from London I would consider Milan, I think you’d find it very provincial. Plus Milan is now less polluted in terms of air quality due to congestion charge and the ban on diesel cars within a certain area. In Monza far too many people still drive diesel SUVs.

There are some good points, being smaller the bureaucracy takes less time and people are helpful, the park is amazing, there are several events and exhibitions during the year and especially at Gran Prix time. It’s also less of a worry for tweens to wander around on their own but you’re nowhere near that stage.

For Porta Garibaldi you can live anywhere on the green metro line in Milan, the city is small and it doesn’t take long to get about. The BSM is at Lambrate (on the green line) and there is an expat enclave nearby in Segrate/Milano Due, but if you lived there you’d need a car. I remember the IS being in Via Osoppo, but it might have moved. At the time it wasn’t great as an area but things have changed a lot. I used to live in the south/south east of the city, so Porta Romana and Porta Genova, loads going on on my doorstep and I could walk to Duomo in 15 minutes.

When a get a mo I will check out some websites and send you links for types of apartment. Here eve if you rent you’ll often need to put in a kitchen, it’s rented completely empty but you get a long lease.

I used to live near Monza (Seregno) but it was so long ago I have no idea what it's like now. I do agree on sending children to the Italian schools - state nurseries and scuole materne (so up to the age of six) are usually great, sometimes a bit tatty on the outside but really well run.

Meant to write I think you’d find MONZA very provincial

The schools are good here, certainly for nursery (asilo nido) and preschool (scuola materna), both are child led plus the food is good quality, especially for those ages (no baked beans or chips or processed food, no chocolate under3(!), no puddings). According to my cousin who came out to see us when DD was small the pupil/teacher ratios are better than in the UK, but on that I have no idea. No classes of 30 though.

Hello! Did you ever move in the end? Would love to hear your experience. We are a family living in Surrey with 3 children and considering the move for a few reasons - I've seen that BSM has great results and have read positive things.