Naturalisation

[schoggiweggli]

I have an opportunity to be naturalised in the country where I have lived for 20 years and where my children were born. Some of you will know which country that is from my username.

I have passed all the tests, paid almost all the money but I'm still not really sure I want it.

I would like to be able to vote but despite that, I still can't seem to get over the feeling that I should withdraw my application.

Does anyone want to try and persuade me one way or the other?

If you have lived there for 20 years, then I assume you have an affinity with the country. To me, it's a no-brainer.

I'm so pissed off with the UK at the moment, I'd jump at the chance of becoming the citizen of a country that I loved.

Go for it!

Is it tax or military service related, your aversion?

Can you put your finger on why you're feeling uneasy?

I became a citizen of the country I live in after living here for 18 years. Like you, my children were born here. My main reason for wanting to become a citizen was so that I could vote, and that felt especially important to me when I had children. This is my home and almost certainly always will be. I wanted to have a say in how it is run.

You've paid the money! If you don't go ahead, do you lose the money? Or can you get a refund?

Have you got anything to lose by becoming a citizen?

From your username, I'm guessing it is a beautiful country with an amazing standard of living. I love it there and would jump at the chance to live there.

I think I understand your reticence and I'm assuming that you'd have to give up uk citizenship.
I'm in Schokobrötchen land though, and hoping that the new coalition here will bring in dual citizenship option. Otherwise im not sure I could give up UK citizenship, even though I'm not sure why. There's no good logical reason to it.

Are there any practical reasons for having doubts (like having to give up your UK citizenship) or is it a feeling of unease because you don't feel 100% like a citizen of your current country?

I had some doubts about taking up citizenship of a second country, but in the end practical (Brexit) considerations outweighed the difficult to define feeling of not feeling 100% like a citizen in my new country. Also, seeing every Brit with an Irish granny suddenly applying for Irish citizenship post-Brexit made me think that perhaps I was putting too much emphasis on the emotional/cultural/identity aspects of citizenship.

I'm in Italy and have been here for 27 years. Only now I've started to think I should get citizenship- and I understand your reticence I think. I'm the same. I've never seen the need, or felt the desire to be Italian. Hand on heart I'm never going to feel Italian, even with the document. Yes, I'm doing it because of Brexit. I don't think I'd do it if I had to renounce my British Citizenship. I wouldn't. Don't know why particularly.
I used to work in naturalisation law oddly, so know all the ins and outs. It's just odd. I think there's also a bigger mental step with naturalization as opposed to registration when you're entitled to citizenship. Naturalization feels "more" of a step somehow.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thank you all.

It has no tax implications.

I can still continue to be a UK citizen.

It wouldn’t result in me acquiring an EU passport (would definitely be up for that if there was any way to get one)

The children can and are choosing separately for themselves. My decision will not affect theirs. Only DS is subject to considerations of national service and he’s factored that into his decision. They don’t acquire any citizenship or rights via me.

To the poster who asked about costs – no I wouldn’t get the money back, but in practice it doesn’t actually cost me much more than it would for just the children because of the way the fees are structured.

It doesn’t practically affect whether I’m allowed to stay in the country (only time it would play a role would be if I left the country for more than 6 years and wanted to return, and even that it would still likely be possible to come back. I can’t see that happening. Never say never, of course, but it seems pretty unlikely)

I’m definitely not a fan of the British government but sadly my decision here has no bearing on that. I’d make the a decision in an instant with no qualms whatsoever if it could J Me taking on a new nationality doesn’t really disassociate me from that.

I don’t actually love it here. I don’t hate it either. It just is.

Lots of things about this country are great, but lots aren’t. Same as many other countries in that way of course. The education system where I am is simultaneously brilliant and utterly dreadful. It’s quite amazing in a way that they can make it be so both at once. The country overall shares some Brexit-like tendencies, but it goes about it in a quieter, more under the radar way, so you might not notice. In addition, they have made some unnecessary nasty and spiteful choices that don’t directly affect me, but are something I don’t want to be associated with. Things that I think would not stand in Britain.

The advantages are that I would have a small advantage in crossing borders within Europe and I would have the right to vote. That last one is quite a big deal, although again in practice, if I had been able to vote in the past, my votes would have followed my region, which is anyway at odds with the rest of the country, so practically they don’t benefit from my vote.

I think it’s more like Geanhradh said about not feeling Italian.

I don’t belong here, I never will feel like I do. But practically in the end, really, who cares about what I feel? There is no rational basis not to do this. So I guess I’ll go for it, vote when I can (which will be a lot, because that’s how we do things here J) and try my best to ignore it the rest of the time.

Thanks for all your thoughts. It does help to get others' perspectives.

I would do it and keep dual nationality. I know several who have and it gives much better options and sense of permanence.

I wanted to be able to vote in the country where I lived.

I have done it and kept dual nationality. My main reason initially was to give us long term security in this country, to know that we could retire here but still live elsewhere in the world before then if we wanted to.
But I actually do feel that I belong here and unexpectedly I became rather emotional at my naturalisation ceremony so I take that as a sign that I did the right thing!

I am dual by birth but DH got naturalized after 2016. He had been putting it off but wanted to be able to vote. There are potential tax implications in our case (USA) but the likelihood of negative repercussions is small.

I think he would not have done it if he would have had to give up UK citizenship. But being able to vote and apply for jobs requiring US citizenship was more valuable.

I’m a dual citizen. I took US citizenship (which is my husband’s birth and only citizenship) to ensure that we will always be able to stay together. Now that I am a US citizen, there’s no way I can be removed from the country (with the exception of some very serious crimes such as obtaining citizenship by deception or terrorism and that’s just not my thing ….) so my husband and I are guaranteed to be able to live together always.

I also wanted to be able to vote here and have a say in how my hard-earned tax dollars are being spent.

If you can get dual nationality then I can't see a down side.

I am a dual national. I don't really feel. French, but I don't feel British either. I wanted to be able to vote, and to know that if I were travelling abroad and needed help then I could go to the French Embassy and be repatriated back to France.

Op in your shoes I would go for it.

I have dual nationality and it has above all given me reassurance and relief that I am living here having the same legal standing as my family (so we don't have to stand in different airport or Eurostar queues for example), that we can travel and retire where we want more or less within EU, that in the event of being widowed, I will feel more secure in terms of pensions and potential financial & property inheritance, and on an emotional level I can vote here and become even more fully engaged with my country of residence.

Brexit wasn't something I anticipated happening in a million years and I wanted to have the reassurance that if something else totally unpredictable happens like that, that I am legally secure where I live.

You can also look at it that Brexit was something that was done to us beyond our control, without the possibility to vote, and you are now responding to being put in that position by taking practical measures to mitigate against the worst of its effects.

I did it for purely practical reasons OP and have never regretted it. In fact, it has made my life easier and it has given me rights, which over the past two years have been much appreciated, since the UK govt has been happy to trample all over our rights as UK citizens. From a head vs. heart POV does it make sense to take out dual citizenship? If the answer is yes, then I would go for it. That's what I did and 12 years on it still makes sense and I'm glad I did it.

I'll be starting the process as soon as I'm eligible. I arrived back in my French (home) airport the other day and when I went through passport control (giving him my residence permit as well) the border guard said, "Vous venez du Portugal?" (You've come from Portugal?). When I confirmed it, he gave me a big grin and a cheery "Bonne soirée" in a way that acknowledged that choosing to go to Portugal (instead of to the UK for February half-term) was very French. I don't feel much affinity with Britain these days and am in fact excruciatingly embarrassed by my passport. I'd be much happier with a French one/ID card.

We did it for practical reasons too and honestly so if things cocked up with a move back to the U.K. we could return easily. Also with Brexit it felt prudent for my DC to have options later on in life. But ours is US and all the paperwork over taxes is a bloody nightmare I wish we hadn’t bothered!

Having said that it’s easy enough to renounce should you need to, so I am going to make sure we have the cash if something like the second Trump gets in and enforces military service and a draft again, getting my DC the hell out of that!!

If we were staying I don’t think we’d have bothered though

If you’re in the country I think you’re in (where I am too…) doesn’t that passport give you pretty much the same rights as if it was an EU passport?

The document won’t define you. It’s just admin.

@MotherOfSloths you are right of course about the rights with respect to the EU. I do rather tend to forget. I think I've already mentally moved on to a future time point where the EU have lost patience and those rights are gone the way of brexit. But actually naturalisation would be good for that point of view. More for the kids than me but still.

@schoggiweggli see it was a practicality.

I often feel guilty or disloyal for considering going for a passport (got a few years to go but if we’re still here then we will, though I think the kids can quicker as each year counts for double?) - like I’m turning my back on my own country or something. That’s my heart talking.

Then my head says, if you want to retire in SoF (example!) then best to get the bloody passport. Who knows what future chaos will come from Brexit in terms of ruining uk-EU relations.