French schools

[TranquilWater]

I would love to hear from any Brits whose kids have recently (in the last 5 years) moved from the English school system into the French school system. My year 5 dd is half French, and pre-COVID we used to visit family in France frequently, so dd is somewhat used to French culture although we’ve never spent more than two weeks at a time there. However, dd is really happy in her school in the UK and with her many extra-curricular activities. When you moved to France, what were the main differences you noticed with the teaching style? How affordable/plentiful were kids’ activities outside school? Did your child go straight into a 100% French-speaking school, or an international school/private school with some or all teaching in English? Thanks for any insights you can share.

It has been a while since ours were in primary, but I would think the big difference would be the fact that they don't learn to read and right until CP class (so the September of the calendar year they turn 6) up until then they do a lot of work on penmanship and sylabuls etc.

The other difference you may find depending on where you move to is class sizes. Locally the biggest CP class I have seen had 12 pupils, but that is not country wide. Also (again depending on area) look at the école Privées. They are mostly catholic schools, but you don't have to be catholic to get in. They are fee paying, but fees are ridiculously low (20€/month for our primary)

Extra curriculars are not organised through school, they are all through clubs but there are lots available even in rural areas.

At that age I would avoid international schools and go straight into French, unless you intend to return to the UK.

I would say the biggest difference is teaching style - all stick and no carrot. Kids are not praised for what the get right, but criticised for what they get wrong and there is no attempt to sugar the pill. Lots of rote learning and dictation to drill French grammar. I’ve put two kids through the French system and it has lots to recommend it, neither has been scarred by this approach (indeed it is what they expect and they have known no other way), but I can imagine moving from a lovely, nurturing English primary could be a bit of a shock. It certainly looked quite brutal to mine and my DH’s English eyes and a primary school teacher friend of mine (with a French husband) whose kids were in the same school was horrified by tales of teachers ripping up work that was sub-standard. My kids loved their primary school, but they had no point of comparison.

This summer our 5 year old left a French state school to return to the UK Though the French system has a well earned reputation for being stricter and less adaptable to different learning styles / pupil experience we didn’t find the differences at this age big at all. If anything the French petite/moyenne section experience was that it was more about being a good, well behaved member of a class than academic work. She was taught the alphabet, capitals and could write her name but didnt otherwise read and is now stightly behind UK Y1 equivalents - though being given much more targeted, encouraging help with that than I’d have expected from her otherwise lovely, Paris suburbs French school.

At your daughter’s age and with existing french exposure I’d not hesitate to go for the French state system, saving private schooling cash for if that doesn’t work out (which may be later when the teaching style deviates more heavily from anglo saxon expectations). That said, though our school was in a small town it was commutable to Paris and so they were used to anglophone pupils and she had a couple of classmates she could speak english too which helped in the early days.

As others have said, after school activities are organised by the mairie/centre de loisir / interest clubs rather than the school but we found the offer plentiful; much more so than in our equivalent sized UK town. There is a bit of a tradition of early september signup ‘fairs’ so hobby clubs (vs after school childcare type clubs) can be difficult to get in to mid year.

I've put my DCs through French school and I teach English in French schools.It is so negative, always looking for what they do wrong and can't do. When my DCs were little it used to drive me mad, my poor DC1 had a terrible report in CP (5/6 years old) he couldn't do this, he couldn't do that, it was terrible. I can remember asking his teacher, is he polite? is he calm? Does he try? The answer was yes, to all, but his report was still negative. It was the year he wa diagnosed with ASD, dyslexia and dyspraxia, but no concessions were ever made. This is my experience, however, my DCs think it's OK and don't have a problem and they have in fact both done very well. I do have conversations with my friends about if I had known would I have still brought my DCs to France? I think yes, because the positives of living here have outweighed the negatives, but I do know a few English families who have returned to the UK because of the education system and its effect on the their DCs.

As a teacher, I hear some of my colleagues screaming at the pupils which never even happened to me at at school in the UK 40 years ago, again, it bothers me more than it bothers the students.

With regard to leisure activities there are loads of associations, I live in the arse end of no-where, and my kids have had the opportunity to try archery, fencing, scouts, football, basketball, horse-riding, judo, surf and that's just the ones they've been interested in, there are loads of others (and not just for children too, plenty of associations for adults to get involved in). I think I pay 100 euros for basketball for the year, but because I'm classed as a low income family the government give me financial aid towards the activities so I think I pay about 50 euros a year out of my own pocket.

When my two were at a French primary in London and I accompanied the class on a trip to the Ragged School. The kids dressed in Victorian costumes and there was a teacher in Victorian dress at the front of the class - she made them all sit in rows and proceeded to write in perfect cursive writing on the blackboard which the kids then had to copy onto a slate while she walked round the class shouting at them. Apart from the Victorian dress, it was so similar to their own experience in school they could not see anything remarkable about it. It seemed to me a perfect illustration of the difference between the French and the English systems. My kids have both done very well in the French system, but DH and I made very sure to be super supportive and encouraging at home to compensate for the constant negativity in the classroom. I think this could be a brilliant opportunity for your DD @TranquilWater, but my advice would be to make the move asap because as @1frenchfoodie says, the maternelle section is all about preparing them for what's to come (creating round pegs for round holes). The longer you leave it, the harder it might be to adapt.

We have just done this - boys 6 and 8 from inner London state primary (excellent, but serving very deprived intake, not fancy at all) to French state primary but in a very fancy bit of Paris. Boys were year 1 and 3 last year but because they allocate a bit differently went into CP and CM1 - basically our 6 year old went back a year and our 8 year old skipped a year. They are bilingual (and DS1 was already confidently reading in French) but only formal French instruction had been at home.

It had gone well but the teaching style is very, very different. Ds1 had loads of very demanding homework, up to an hour a night, at a very different level from last year. He's quite academic I think and has relished the challenge but with the language switch too it has been a v v steep learning curve for him and he has had to take getting poor marks to start with in his stride. We wrote letters at the start of year to their teachers explaining they were coming from purely English system but I don't think DS1's teacher ever read it. Last week she congratulated him on how good his accent is in their English class which suggests not! If your daughter is already year 5 and not completely bilingual, reading and writing fluently in French (with approved French handwriting) I would hesitate to be honest or consider an international school.

Just to be clear I am British (French by marriage) and DH is French. I have decent French but I am not fully bilingual and have never lived in France before. We are here for a year or two but then plan to return to the UK.

with approved French handwriting - in a nutshell.

Though to be fair, I think the OP’s DD is age 5 rather than in year 5.

Sorry my mistake (why is there no delete post button) - she is indeed year 5.

Yes having to completely relearn how to write in the fortnight before school started was v intense for DS1 but in the end a good thing because he'd never learnt properly in England for some reason (despite generally excellent school), and it was the one thing he was really behind on (was still refusing to join up and had developed a bit of a block about it). He had to completely master French cursive in double quick time and be able to use it for dictation and to write out eg all his homework tasks for the week in his homework diary from day 1. Actually a really good thing for him because to be honest he needed to go back to basics and "relearn" handwriting but would be very tough I think if you were a bit older and/or already writing more confidently and fluently in English than he was. He has absolutely lovely handwriting now though and will probably write like a Frenchman all his life! Didn't matter for DS2 because although he was already reading and writing quite confidently in English on arrival, in CP they start from the absolute beginning but go quite fast and teach cursive from the start (no printing stage). He was slightly bored for the first few weeks but is now more stimulated and in any case his French was a bit less fluent than his brother at the point of our move so it was good he had time to focus on oral and social stuff. I think the robust French system happens to suit our boys quite well but there is no flexibility and it must be really hard for children who constantly get marks like 2 or 3 out of 20 from age 7 or 8 onwards!

I think the robust French system happens to suit our boys quite well but there is no flexibility and it must be really hard for children who constantly get marks like 2 or 3 out of 20 from age 7 or 8 onwards! I so identify with this statement. My kids were fine too - they did everything required and have come out the other end with good grades (14 - which is UCAS equivalent of AAA). One is at uni in France the other in the UK which means it did what we wanted which was give them the option of going on to study in France or the UK. Really tricky for children who don't get on and fit in though and absolutely no point arguing the toss. My DH used to say the school motto should be Fit in or F* off. Many things to recommend it though - the French handwriting being a case in point. I think the French achieve success here by not trying to start children off too early - three years in maternal mastering holding a pen drawing circles, lines and wiggles then learning to write at six and half in CP when everyone is ready (rather than some getting off to a flying a start at four and half while others struggle to hold a pen). It keeps everyone in the class on the same page and they were all reading and writing by Christmas. It is an entire process though - every stage leads onto the next stage so trying to get on the train when it's already left the station is inevitably tricky.

Thanks everyone for sharing your insights into the educational approach, it’s really helpful.