Just been to a German parents evening and seriously thinking of throwing myself under a tram, only Id have to travel into Munich to do it....

[Nightynight]

unrelenting doom and gloom all round.

ds messed up some bit of work about a knight and jousting. I had to point out to his teacher that he doenst know what knights and jousting are in english, let alone deutsch. She had blithely assumed that all children would know about the useless sporting activities of the upper classes 600 years ago.

why cant they do SCIENCE in the primary schools here????? which ds is actually interested in

Apparently dd has gar keine Chance of getting into the gymnasium.

Oh NN. Y4 nephew (ADHD) very bright but facing a Haupt- or Sonderschulempfehlung atm. IMO a cae of looking at the Leistung more than the child. Sympathies. WTF is jousting in German anyway?

Tbh I dread school, particularly the secondary splitting up thing, although on current form ds1 certainly looks like he'll be on the suinny side of the system. I find it so disturbing and divisive.

Go with the bilingual thing. And Abi is certainly not closed to her forever if she doesn't start at Gymn.

On the standards thing, one of my teaching students from damals said she didn't see why she should know complicated English grammar and sophisticated cultural studies because 'ich studiere ja nur auf Grundschule' .

berolina - that's par for the course ime, looking only at the "Leistung" and not the child.

That's why I am so taken with the Gesamtschule and am in that respect poles apart from many parents here. The reactions we get when we say where ds1 is is akin to telling people he's at a Young Offenders' Institution but I am a vocal advocate of the school. Very snotty lot round here. After talks with heads, teachers, parents & pupils and at the open days the whole approach and ethos was immediately visible and child-centered.
Gesamtschulen were the only ones that mentioned "individual children", "different strengths" and "social skills". The others were all "Wahlpflichtfach", "Leistung" and the trendy "Bilingualer Zweig" where the children get an extra 2 hrs @ 45 mins English or French in Y5 & Y6 and then do Geography and History in English from Y7 They only start learning English as a proper subject in Y5 so how bilingual they are by Y7 is a question of definition

A Gesamtschule doesn't suit all but allows for children who take a bit longer to absorb new information (ds1) rather than the whole class having to work at the pace of those who click quicker as in primary.
They're also better imo for children who fall between Gym. & Real or Real & Haupt as they offer a proper Orientierungsstufe.

NightyNight, I fear Bavaria is still mediaeval Your children will always get a pass in a way because they're bilingual, surely. And as berolina says, your dd can always do Abitur later if she wants. But I do so understand the wretched misery that is Y3 & Y4. Far too much emphasis on what a child can't do...

thank you all for your sympathy and comments - lots of interesting perspectives!

I just want dd to be at a school where she is aiming towards abitur/bac/a levels. I know she will succeed eventually, but dont want her to be getting her first graduate job aged 30, having wasted her twenties repeating years of study.

Am stalling about going to france, as ex h believes he can do what he wants there (macho country). Last time I went to pick the children up, he hit me in the middle of the street, and smashed my car up, and shouted to everyone watching that I am a shameless woman who came to make a scandal. The police in germany offer better protection for women than the gendarmerie, this is the basic fact. Court case is pending, we will see what happens to ex and how his behaviour changes.

I am going to try 1:1 nachhilfe for dd, initially aimed at helping her with homework. If she wants to change schools, she'll have to do an exam though, and I dont know who sets and marks it. It is rumoured in the town that since the current rektor took over, no turkish child has made it to the gymnasium. She only has a few weeks to change their minds enough to convince them that she even should be able to take the exam.

The ed system here is biased heavily agin foreigners succeeding (attracted criticism from the UN over this issue). Situation is worse, because the new bavarian leader made a speech recently against gesamtschule (comprehensive schools) and against the multi-cultural society.
In practise, what that means is that my son gets faced with school tasks that are designed for mono-cultural German children (the knights being an example), and those who do best at these tasks are creamed off into the separate gymnasia and university. Surprise, surprise, the hauptschule (aka rubbish tip for thick kids) is full of foreigners.

There are very few gesamtschule round here. All the private schools are full up, because so many people have the same sort of problems as we have. I will try the Schulrat, Sandy, but I have heard from other parents that there is a queue to join the only gesamtschule in munich. How funny that people are snobby about gesamtschule, I would just be so thankful that the door to university was still open for my children, that I wouldnt care!

There are one or two organisations in munich that have private ed as a free benefit, and I am applying for jobs there. Otherwise, really not sure what to do. Private ed, even if I could get places, would be a huge risk for us - Id be paying for 4 children.

At the hauptschule, dd is studying a mickey mouse subject called AWT (work and technolog). In her book, she has a rhyme written which goes:

Arbeit macht das Leben süß
Erst die Arbeit, dann das Vergnügen
Wer nicht arbeitet, soll auch nicht essen
Wer die Arbeit kennt, rennt.

I am not even going to start on how much I disagree with that.
And the examples of work are school caretaker, and secretary. My dd is being trained up to be the next generation of school caretakers . She is 11.

didnt mean to write such an essay.

AP has just given notice after 10 days with us. *.

If you're considering a Gesamtschule, you need to check whether it is 'integriert' or not. Integriert will probably have setting and teach the Pflichtfaecher at least at different levels at the same time on the timetable. Some Gesamtschulen are separate in the same building IFSWIM.

I (non-German speaker) started at a Gesamtschule in Y6 and was fluent and got my Übergang at the end of Y10 four years later. This was Hessen though and not redneck Bayern.

omg NightyNight, Bavaria is worse than I feared and your description (essay smessay - I could write tomes ) fits with what I read lately about the attitude to foreigners and to schools.
Just wanted to send sympathy from RP. Here there are plans to scrap Hauptschulen to stop this segregation - or at least take a step in the right direction.
Couldn't believe 75% of parents were against it on the grounds that the school system is fine as it is
Move to Rheinland-Pfalz. Think we're living in the 1950's rather than the Bavarian 1590's It's a start. Anyway, Berlin is out of the question - what's all this about meat shortages?

I hate the German system of pigeon holing children so young. My DH is German and I lived there for a couple of years before getting back home much earlier than we had planned. I didn't have children old enough for school when I was there but I can do a nice job about moaning about a bunch of other things . My FIL was actually a primary school teach and my SIL is a teacher currently working in a uni and studying for her PHD in education. She is working on a european project to improve their PISA results. Germany's were terrible! (Australia's were great )

Oh God NightyNight I feel like crying when I read about what's happening to your children in the German system.

My Berlin-mother-of-six-children friend has just put her girls back into the international school (Franco-German) section in Fontainebleau - I'm sure she'd be worth talking to if you wanted to move to the Fontainbleau area - and the school would be perfect for your Franco-German-English speaking children...

Really sorry you are going through all of this Nighty. I've been trying to think of something helpful and positive to say about it but I can't. It's very hard on you and your dc.

Nighty you wrote "At the hauptschule, dd is studying a mickey mouse subject called AWT" Do you mean at the Grundschule (I was assuming she was in her last year of Grundschule) or is she actually in the Hauptschule already and you were hoping to transfer her to a Gymnasium?

If they have placed her in a Hauptschule (talking here the secondary school for low achievers) I would say that's a major problem, she should not be there.

hello, thank you all for your thoughts.
Sandy, I am not sure exactly what the status is. There is no separate Hauptschule in our town - the children just carry on at the Volkschule until they are 16. So dd is doing that. She is in the 5th class.
The teachers told me that she could transfer at the end of the year if she got good enough marks - but in the literature from the local Schulamt, I see there is an exam that she must also take, and they have never mentioned that.
I would consider moving to NRW if I thought it would solve our problem, but dont want to just move her to a hauptschule in Dusseldorf, that would be no solution.

I think the teachers here will tell parents anything, just to shut them up and get them to accept the teachers decision without making a fuss.

well absolutely, I'd agree with that. Thing is they are qualified Volkschule or Hauptschule teachers so if all the dc moved on to Realschule, Gymnasium, they'd be out of a job, wouldn't they? Stands to reason that they hold a certain percentage back.

Dd should definitely be doing extra German, whatever your future plans are. Personally I would throw myself into the fight if dd can handle it. If they get half a page to write for homework, have her write 5, look things up in the library/internet, do a spelling check. Do everything you can. So the level of her written work is way beyond that of the class. Have her practice essay writing and book reviews and whatever else with her tutor. When you have a decent folder full collated, I would take it round to a gymnasium and show how despite her grades, her work is up to scratch.

I would also be tempted to throw it down on the Schulleiter's head desk and say, ok then, show me why she isn't up to Gymnasium! But that's just me....

If the worst comes to the worst, I'd consider letting her repeat a year so she comes out with 1s and 2s. Would she be willing to do that?

Munich is probably a whole different kettle of fish, but in Berlin you apply to Gymnasium with a total of 6 in 4 subjects (so 2 x 2 is possible but at least 4 x 1), for the state gymnasia, beginning year 5. Any faith ones will have more Spielraum and look at the family/your faith and other things too (who you know possibly). Some require dc to sit entrance exams and they make their decisions on the basis of 1)school grades 2) results of their own tests 3) personal interview.

Just a word of warning, they all hold open days at different times of the year, have different application deadlines and you need some idea of which ones you are going to apply to (here you can apply without that recommendation) and you need some idea of what the tests are going to be like. People I know here applied to 4 Gymnasia and got in to one in the end via a waiting list. It's a real PITA altogether the whole thing.

Can she also get a good workbook for German grammar or whatever she needs and work with a friend who is also applying to a Gymnasium? Perhaps you and the other mum can take it in turns to work with them every second Saturday or something.

Mind you having now re-read my own post, I think move to NRW!

Oh god I feel sick...Did the rounds of KG open days recently, to find that there are no places until September. The nearest (and best) KG suggested we visit the Mayor to plead our case:

1. Been here 5 months and DS has no friends
2. He can't speak the language because of No.1
3. He's bored
4. I'm having a baby in 3 months
5. No.4 means time in hospital for various reasons
6. DH works away a lot so we're on our own. I've even got to go with DS tonight to the meeting, which is going to be a nightmare as it's his dinnertime

To put it bluntly, I want to cry when I see my poor son so alone out here (south of Munich). I'm meeting the Mayor at 5pm tonight. Anyone got any bright ideas of how to persuade the Mayor?
Thanks

Hi cheechy I was thinking of you today and wondering where you'd got to and how things were going. Sorry I've only just seen your message, so you've been to see the mayor (wow! never thought of doing that). How did it go? Any luck?

How old is your ds? Possibly you might be able to get a place for him with a Tagesmutter (carer) in her home with just a few other children. That might be less bewildering in a foreign language.

hi cheechy,
sorry to hear about that. I remember when you came to munich, it was just after the KG's had fixed their intake for this academic year, so there was nothing you could have done about it, if that's any consolation.

what to suggest? well, the first place I would be tempted to go is the jugendamt. They are social services, but as you sound like a very respectable family you shouldn't have any problem with them. You could ask them to get your ds into a KG, to help him prepare for school. As a foreigner, your child needs extra help to learn the language. I was told that as a single parent, the social workers would get my child a guaranteed place in KG. I didnt take up this offer because I would have had to give them all my income details etc, and basically register myself as needy. Fortunately, we got a place for dd.
There are also social workers attached to the churches, so it might be useful to ask your local vicar. They don't just work for church people.

Have you tried the private kindergartens (Montessori) as well as the state ones?

Another thing to try, is playgroups. They are NOT well advertised, you have to ask people. There is a marvellous one in our town (free), that runs 2 mornings a week, completely due to the efforts of a very hardworking and selfless woman. Through the playgroup, you can get to know more about the KGs and where you might get a place.

Sandy, to get to gymnasium here, a child needs average 2.33 in Deutsch, Maths and HSU. So you can get 2,2,3. Below that, you can take the exam.
Because dd is in the 5th year, she just needs 1 or 2 in Deutsch and Maths.
It is so hard to find out what your rights are though. I didn't realise that we had to apply individually to the gymnasium, I thought the whole process was done by the Volksschule! Think I need to phone the gymnasium and speak to them pronto.

dd has got a deutsch probe tomorrow, I am dreading it because she has been ill for 4 days (first day back tomorrow) and she hasn't been able to revise as much as we wanted. She is keen on studying in fits and starts, and is only just beginning to believe that she can get better marks. I am paying for her to get nachhilfe, but the main push needs to come from her.

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well, in england Id be grindingly poor and probably living in a dump. Which would naturally be next to a sink school.

Here, Ive managed to put a decent roof over my childrens heads. It is (marginally) still better than the UK. All other things being equal, Id go back to france for the childrens school.

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but I often feel like saying fuck it

Im an engineer and there is a lot of well paid work here.

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pah
youve never had to live here though

interestingly, the children are starting to speak german amongst themselves. They have a whole stroppy vocabulary that they dont know in english lol
"Mensch!"
"Nah gut"
"Hör auf!" etc.