UK incidence is 336 - how can a country with an incidence of 8 be amber?

[UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]

And wtf is going on with only recognising vaccination done under the UK vaccination programme and exempting only those vaccinated in the UK from the extortionate scam of the £150+ per person test packages. Wtf is going on with having to pay for a day 8 test if you're leaving the UK on day 5? Why do children aged over 4 have to pay for these tests when UK children under 18 are exempt from everything?

How on earth is this justified for people coming from countries with incidence rates tens of times lower than the UK, and far less high risk varient cases than the UK?

Is anyone else unable to justify visiting family because there's essentially been a £600 to a thousand pound per family bribe imposed in the form of this bizzare test package for fully vaccinated adults and young children? Combined with being confined to one house for the duration of the now incredibly expensive visit, making it especially unappealing with children...

Has anyone been to the UK from a low incidence amber country with kids in tow recently? What was your experience?

I'm in the same position and share your rage! Longing to visit elderly parents in England this summer who we haven't seen since Christmas 2019 and who are understandably too anxious to travel to Europe to visit us. All fully vaccinated, including my teenagers, yet the testing and quarantine rules just make visiting impossible for us.

It makes no sense at all, but nothing really does with this government! It's the same with this going ahead of "Freedom Day" whilst asking people to "remain vigilant", whatever that means!

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. My parents seem to think I'm making it up, as they're convinced that restrictions will all be lifted for the fully vaccinated and under 18s, but it all only applies to UK residents vaccinated in the UK under the NHS programme!

My teens are vaccinated too bontopia - we all are except the under 12 year old
but that counts for nothing apparently.

The test package is an absolute scam, especially having to pay for a day 8 test if coming from an amber country even if you have a flight out booked for day 3, 5, 5, 6 or 7!

As for why countries with massively lower rates of covid are amber... Is it putative? It can only be a political decision, certainly makes no scientific sense!

As I understand it, it’s not to do with the rates but to do with how far progressed the vaccination programme in that country is. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It’s not as straightforward as absolute numbers anyway.

I think various Governments (not just UK) are using this situation as a way to flex their muscles with each other. I believe there are certain batches of Astra Zeneca vaccine which European Countries are refusing to acknowledge - yeah guess which batch I had!!

But yes I totally understand your situation and it's ridiculous. We wanted to go to a tiny Greek Island which has basically zero cases - but it counts as Amber.

So much of what is happening around this makes no scientific sense.

NotAnotherPushyMum there's quibbling about absolute numbers and then there's the difference between 8 and 336 per 100,000.

Croatia has significantly lower vaccination rates per 100,00 and significantly higher cases per 100,00 than Germany but is green list.

The difference in how far advanced the vaccination programme is would make sense if they applied it consistently and actually recognised vaccinations done in other countries as relevant!

If they're not recognising Pfizer or Astra vaccination done in other countries with proper, verifiable vaccination passports as relevant to quarantine and test exemption its a very unconvincing double standard to say that

MissyB1 yep it definitely looks as though goverments are using this as a bizzare way to flex their muscles with one another and in the UK's case give out back handers to the private companies running the compulsory test packages.

Yep! Haven't seen my parents for two years now. We are vaccinated (along with ds16) in Italy but that doesn't count. Needless to say we're not going to the UK this summer.

It's absolutely ridiculous. National incidence where I am is 8.6 (that's with 75% of cases being Delta variant, it was under 5 before Delta got here) and we share this 'amber status' with another European country that has an incidence of over 500, but it's a popular tourist destination for Brits so I bet it will never turn red.

I doubt they're even looking at vaccine rollouts in other countries anymore. Our numbers are barely 10% lower than the UK's - I'd say with an incidence of less than 10 and 60% vaccinated instead of 70%, we're about as safe as the UK, if not safer.

It's so unfair, and it's such a stupid system that will only recognize NHS vaccination certificates. I still don't understand why my WHO-issued pass, which is in English, doesn't count as valid. They still need 'to figure out how to process certificates from other countries'. Surely the border force/airline staff can read?? It's really not that difficult to sort out, and they don't even have an excuse for any of it. Absolutely ridiculous.

By this point I'm not sure anymore if this is still a political game, or just pure ignorance from leaders and decision-makers. This isn't following the science or anything close to that. It makes no sense whatsoever.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme brilliantly put. If these 'rules' were applied consistently, they'd at least be able to make their point. But the decisions are so random and inconsistent, it just doesn't make any sense.

Yep. Only 10% of the Australian population are fully vaccinated but Australia is green while countries with 45% of the population vaccinated are amber (UK only has 53% of the entire population fully vaccinated, although the government prefers to offer the statistics for over 18s who've had at least one vaccination... Most countries are vaccinating from age 12 ...).

Joining everyone's pain. Am in Italy, fully vaccinated and my teenage DD gets her first dose in a couple of weeks. Haven't been to the UK since 2019. There were 53 new cases in my entire region this week. My town has 3 cases active.

@NotAnotherPushyMum

As I understand it, it’s not to do with the rates but to do with how far progressed the vaccination programme in that country is. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It’s not as straightforward as absolute numbers anyway.

If that was true, then the US would be on the green list.

Agree with everything you’ve written! I’m beyond annoyed that my vaccination certificate isn’t recognised and that I still have to isolate and pay £££ for the stupid tests.

You don’t have to get a day 8 test though if you leave before then. Randox will sell a day 2 test by itself, or at least they did a few weeks ago when I went back.

Trenisenne the UK government guidance explicitly states in so many words that unless vaccinated under the NHS programme or arriving from a green country you still have to book (and pay for) a day 8 test even if you won't be in the country on that day www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-quarantine-when-you-arrive-in-england

Interesting that this wasn't your experience in practice! Can you tell us how it works? Did you have to show evidence you'd booked and paid for the tests before clearing security or customs? Or did you only have to show your day 2 result to leave before day 8 and nobody ever checked that you'd shelled out for the redundant but officially compulsory punitive day 8 test as you left before day 8?

Hmmm. I was really confused when I was booking my tests because I couldn’t see why or how I would need to have a day 8 test, but I didn’t want to do something wrong. I couldn’t find any guidance on the govt website, so I asked a couple of testing companies and they said no, you just need day 2. When track and trace rang me when I arrived in the uk, they said the same.

I had the reference number for the two day test that I entered on the passenger locator form. But the airline (easyJet) only briefly checked the form upon departure. They certainly weren’t interrogating whether day 2 and day 8 were booked. When I landed in the uk (Gatwick), I walked straight through those automatic gate things. No checks at all. In fact it was the quickest airside to landside I have ever had.

It was three weeks ago that I landed, left exactly a week later.

Oh, and no checks at all upon leaving, apart from for those requirements for the destination.

When I click through from the gov.uk site using the find atest link and choose the cheapest (the eyebrow raisingly named blindspot global...) who use Randox, the "packages" are under green and amber headings and the only way to select just a day two test without a day 8 is to select green... This would make me concerned I'd be caught out in having lied and said that I was coming from a green list country if i selected that option... It'd save hundreds of pounds for the family not to have to book unusable tests for after having left the country though!

It sounds as though we'd probably get away with it, but sods law says otherwise...

So infuriating as I can't see any way to "innocently" book only day two without selecting that we're arriving from a green list country, yet buying day 8 tests if leaving before day 8 is clearly utterly ridiculous!

I actually can’t recall whether you need to select which colour country you are coming from on the locator form. I definitely wouldn’t have lied about that, but I could conceivably have done so on the randox form!

Is there a government email address or contact number?

I agree - it’s so frustrating to pay a minimum of £50 per test if you don’t need them (it’s frustrating anyway). Add on day 5 and fit to fly and it’s £200 per person. The only saving grace is that my country of residence don’t make you pay for the antigen tests and for the moment that is ok for uk entry.

This would make me concerned I'd be caught out in having lied and said that I was coming from a green list country if i selected that option

They will probably check the test paperwork at the border- i.e ask you where you're from and what tests you've booked. They checked my friend coming from the US, had to show accommodation details etc. Not worth gaming it. I think in time they will recognise overseas vaccinations but will take time to build a process to know what they actually look like- otherwise there will be tonnes of forgeries.

I do sympathise btw (or emphasise?). Live in HK (zero covid and I'm double vaxed with Pfizer) and to go back to UK I need to do the testing UK side plus on the way back to HK, do 22 nights somewhere else as a wash out (direct flights from UK currently banned because people in HK refuse to get vaccinated so an influx of Delta would be disastrous), then quarantine for 21 days in a hotel in HK (not allowed out of room or to open a window). Just not feasible to leave HK. Haven't left since March 2020 and there's not even the option to holiday locally- as in there's nowhere to go that I couldn't do as a day trip- can drive one end to the other in an hour in light traffic. Dreading something happening to family in the UK that would mean I have to go back- then have the choice of leave kids here and not see them for 8 weeks minimum or take with and have to do 21 days in a hotel room with them/ they miss loads of school. Basically, it all sucks.

Here's to better times.

We are in a red country so would be looking at hotel quarantine. We have a 5yr old, a 3yr old and I’m pretty heavily pregnant so it’s just not an option. We haven’t seen any family since 2019. It is fucking shit. We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world (DH and I both double vaccinated with Pfizer)

I switched on the TV last night and saw all the crowds at Silverstone and just feel so upset and frustrated by the whole thing.

It’s just political!! I’ve been double jabbed (moderna) since May (before the NHS got around to giving my 70 year old mother her second jab). My father killed himself 2 years ago, haven’t seen my family since the funeral. US isn’t opened borders to non Citizens, so they can’t come here. Im headed home next week to Scotland, I’ll quarantine at my Mum’s (which means she can’t leave the house either). I’ll work for the 29 days then see family and head back here a week later. I have to leave my 3 kids for 3 weeks..not fair to expect them to quarantine. The policy makes no sense, if UK residents can provide paper evidence of vaccination when entering another country, why can’t UK citizens show paper evidence to enter their own country???

10 days quarantine, sorry!

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Because the UK government give getting this wrong.