Stay in France or head back to UK - what shall we do??

[farfaraway]

Ok, we have been in France for the past five years and have been really happy. Now we are faced with a choice to either return to the UK or stay in France. DH has a job in either country.

In France we like health, education, lifestyle, people, food, family life etc. But on the down side we would be poorer, my french is still quite bad and we will never have family near by and it will mean that we are settled here for good.

If we go back to the UK things will be easier - I can work, we have a house, long term job prospects are better for DH. And we could think of moving somewhere else in years to come so not really settled.

But everyone keeps telling me don't come back and using examples of yob culture, property crash, working hours, commuting etc. Are things really like this in the UK and if you had the choice what would you do? Should we stay or should be go?
Going out now so hope to find out what you all think later.

The critical thing for me would be long term job prospects. You say that your dh has this in the UK but don't say if he has it in France.

There is no property crash here (at least not yet!), working hours are as long as they have ever been and commuting hasn't changed much - may have got better if you have to drive into London because of the congestion charge. Yob culture is no better/worse. I guess all of this depends on which paper you read!

I would imagine (but it may be that I have rose tinted specs, never having lived in France) that your quality of life is better in France - but what about the long term?

Why can't you improve your french then?
That would help.

I would go back to the UK if I were you.

I've been in Belgium for the last five/six years and I feel very bad about being so far away from my family.

But we have very strong reasons to stay here: dh's family are here, I speak the language and can get a job, and we have a house.

If we didn't have those reasons to stay here, I would go back to England.

yes speaking the language is critical to how well you are settled somewhere.

For me the long term job prospects would be important too.

I cannot tell you what life is like in UK, because I have been living in Germany for the past 15 years but I do think that it very much depends on where you live.

Do you have an idea where you would want/have to live?

The one thing that I would insist on if moving back to UK would be private health insurance. Especially after reading so much about the NHS on MN. Would your DH's company pay for that?

I would also be tempted by the thought of having family nearer. It is very difficult sometimes, if I am ill then I have noone to take the DCs.

You don't need private health insurance to live in the UK.

I've lived in France and have a sdister who has been there for 20 years with her French dh.
Both have good and bad thinga about them, like anywhere.

are yopu happy..presumably not...will return to the uk make u happy..as u mention job prospects they are clearly important as is family from what u say so the emphasis of your posting suggests that u would like to come back

what does your dh think and your cji;ldren

I am in Germany, dh is German, I speak the language like a native and have actually been the sole earner for us, healthcare brilliant, public transport brilliant, social benefits brilliant, living affordable. And yet we're likely stuck here (dh's career beginning to come into its own) and I'll admit it, I do pine for the UK. My situation is different, though, because I also face the challenge of being the only major day-to-day English influence in my children's lives.

I think in your case I would return to the UK, not without severe pangs - if I understand you correctly the French option wouldn't be gone for good if you did so, whereas if you stayed the UK option would.

FWIW, on the NHS thing, the (German) doctor who delivered ds2, working at a major research and teaching hospital, has also worked in the NHS and says she preferred it to Germany.

Moondog
No, you do not need private health insurance, but I am used to the German health service. If I want to see a specialist about something, I phone up and make an appointment. Normally I can be seen reasonably quickly.

I had loads of scans when I was pregnant as I had 2 m/c previously. If I was worried (because of spotting) the gynae had a look there and then. I was not told to come back in 3 or 4 days for a scan. The thought of waiting for several days for a scan, worrying about miscarrying the whole time, it makes me shudder. I find the prenatal care in Germany very good.

We also have regular check ups for the DCs by qualified paediatricians, not by HV.

berolina

ja, ich ein Muppet!

Oh yes, after 2 pgs and births in Germany I really heart the ante- and perinatal care here. Post-natal care after ds1 was shite, mind you - they very nearly sank my bf. (Which of course happens in the UK too )

kindersurprise

On a sadder note, I also second what you said about the care after mc - having had three, I'm very glad about how promptly I was seen each time and in the subsequent pgs.

Will shut up now.

farfaraway
Sorry for the hijack!

How old are your children? How would they feel about moving to UK?

Mine are just 3 and 5yo and already I would find it a bit difficult to move, mainly because the education systems are so different. iirc, the French children start school quite early too, don't they? That would make it easier.

The health care situation would be important to me too. If you can avoid private health insurance, ok, otherwise I think I might choose to stay in France.

Where in the UK would you be moving to?

Have to go out but could not not reply.....

Where are you in France?

Could you not do something about your French - courses/conversation exchange/part time job, and just mixing with French speakers will pull your language skills up fast.

I have been here since 2000 and whilst I miss certain things (London shopping and theatre, friends, newspapers to name a few) I could not imagine going back.

The UK will always be there and if you have a house you will always be able to go back, it will be harder to want to return to France if you regret the move back to the UK.

How old are your children?

I am in Bordeaux and my dh is (non english speaking) French, so I will not be returning to the UK - and tbh have no wish to do so. My older children are billingual and I send them to the UK for the summer to keep up their english - dd3 will spend a month there this summer to relearn English and to 'imbibe' the culcha.

I want UK tv for Christmas though!!

OMG I wrote if you can avoid private health insurance , I meant if you can AFFORD it!

I also don't think you NEED private health insurance in the UK but if you have got used to the luxury of the French health care system then the Nhs would be one of the negative things on the list to have to get used to. I know most of the expats from Germany who have returned to the UK have taken private health insurance.

If I was you I would stay put, you seem to be happy and have been enjoying the lifestyle. The UK isn't far away so you can always spend holidays there. I loved France and the way they treated children too, very friendly, family orientated unlike where I am now - I would leave here tomorrow if I could but if I'd had family in France I would still be there.

Back again. Thanks for all your replies. I know I could improve my french and it is my own fault that I have not studied/talked enough. That would definately help but think languages are not my strong point and I would never be good enough to have a job to the standard I could get in the UK.

DH is not french or English so he has no particular pull to the UK apart from the work side but he too likes living in France. DD1 is almost 7 so very much used to the french school system and speaks French. For her the move would be harder as she would change schools, friends etc. Less so for DD2 (2.5) or DD3 (4mths).
Think it is really a matter of heart over head. Heart really likes living here, we have our life here, our friends here and it will be a big upheaval. Have not lived in the UK for 8 yrs now and have never lived there as SAHM.

We are really used to the French things now like the health system like you say DR S of phoning up the specialist and getting an appoinment straight away. But head tells me it is more practical to return and we would all adapt very quickly.
You all seem to be suggesting to think longer term (after all I am sure there are plenty of great places in the rest of the world as well as France) and a return is a better option. DH and I will be discussing (again!) tonight. Any more thoughts will be appreciated.

Could you move within France so that your family are more accessible. I do miss family, but because we are in the very north of France and my family are in the South of England it is only three hours door to door to see them.

I also commute a bit to the UK as my qualifications are worthless in France - would that be viable for you?

We have only been here since 2005 and certainly have some shaky moments, but I feel very strongly (right now!) that it is where I would like our kids to grow up.

No Lummox we would have to stay in the area. But do feel you have hit the centre of our dilema. I also feel strongly that France is a good place to bring up kids and it will benefit DD's enormously in the long term. But the long term for me is not so great unless I dramtically turn my life around. Which is very possible.
Missing family is a big issue for me too.

That is a very tough one. I think I would want to feel that I had done all I could in terms of trying to make things work in France (in terms of language/retraining, etc) before heading back to blighty.

I think that if we went back without having to, and the kids did suffer, I would find it harder to support them through the changes if I was feeling guilty about it.

That said, there have definitely been times when I have found the lack of family support very hard indeed.

Do you think that you might be being influenced by the fact that your littlest is still very little? I definitely found the boys' early months the hardest to be away from the UK - both because of family and because in my experience one thing the French are not very good at is alleviating the isolation of mums of very little ones. I think that around 4 months really is one of the hardest times of all.

Lummox,
that is a good point. When my DS was 4 months old I would have been on the first plane back to UK if it had been possible.

farfaraway,
perhaps you should try imagining life in a year or two, when you have better French language skills and perhaps a job that you enjoy. Is there anything you would be able to do jobwise that you could retrain for? Or work for an international company with more emphasis on the English language?