Moving from UK to France advice x

[Mamaa2009]

Hello,

I'm new here and as the post says we are moving to France🇫🇷. We have one daughter who is 12.

As you can imagine I am scared and excited at the same time and have joined this group so I can meet and talk to other families who have made the move from the UK.

I'd love to find hear about your experiences - I know everyone's story is different

Is there anyone here who fits that group?x

Where are you moving to? Do you have French or another EU nationality? What level of French language do you have?

These factors will all make quite a difference to your experience of moving to and living in France.

Hi, very exciting! Im British, live in France but my kids were born here. Where are you moving to?

As above your nationality is important post Brexit.

Do you have jobs to go to?
Have you sorted out a school for you DD? Does she speak French? 12 is a very difficult age to move if she doesn't. We have seen kids that age as our DDs have had to help them at school. It is very hard for them to reach their potential as they have missed out on so much of the basic grammar from early years learning.

Obviously if you are looking at international schools that isn't relevant.

We've been here for 18years so ask away if you have questions. I can't promise to be positive though, you are in for a bumpy ride.

I've been here 19 years, DD was 18 months when I moved, DS born here. I've always worked here and spoke French before coming so it wasn't too difficult in the pre Brexit era.
As others have said, will you work here? Are you moving to a city or the countryside? Will your DD be in a state school? Good luck!

So she is learning French as am I. We're all British.

We will be moving to Haute Vienne as we have friends there - although they are older and no kids our Daughters age.

I am looking at schools atm and Dad is moving out there first to get the business's set up. We're opening a pub/restaurant which we will both run and work in. The opportunity came up in an absolutely stunning location and we felt we had to grab it with both hands!

We have holidayed here and love the slower pace of life - I also love that we will not be too far from the city so hopefully we have the balance right.

Schooling is the most important factor and what I am struggling with the most. She's a very outgoing little girl with lots of confidence so I need to find the right one.

Oh op, saying this kindly, please be very careful. Is your daughter academic? Being outgoing will stand her in good stead. . The French education system is quite rigid and totally different to that of the UK. It is quite dry and rigorous even for native French speakers. It also divides quite sharply in to academic and non academic streams in the early teens.

If your daughter is learning to speak French from the age of twelve then it is a possibly a bit too late unless she is a linguistic genius. But anything is possible with humongous effort. I know a child from Afghanistan who came to a British school speaking no English at thirteen and he has succeeded spectacularly well with his GCSEs but he worked day and night with private tutors and a lot of help from the school. The French system may not be so accommodating to you and is a lot less "visual" and flexible than the UK system.

To give you an example, I have a British friend who moved to France with two DC aged 9 and 3. The three year old became fluent and went on to succeed in a very academic stream and the nine year old struggled and eventually moved to an international school (at vast cost).

Also, how is this going to work post-Brexit? You and your DH are no longer automatically entitled to work there, so you must check with the afrench authorities about residence rights and work permits. Logically you should be able to get both but it will require !ore time and effort then previously. The system is quite bureaucratic.

I would definitely look into an international school (possibly even one online) for your DD.
If she’s not fluent in speaking, reading & writing French then (quite frankly) she’s going to suffer.
I’m sure that that’s not what you’re going to want to hear, but it’s the truth. I’m sorry, good luck to you all though.

Also, apologies for the stream of negativity because I wish you well but forewarned is forearmed! My experience is that running your own pub and restaurant is definitely not a slower pace of life, although of course I don't know what hours you are doing now. Even running a couple of gites in the summer can be hard work. Will you be catering for British people or the French, because the latter have very specific and traditional ideas about food and eating in general?

The point I was making earlier about the Afghan child succeeding in the UK is that it was possible for him to do so because of the way the curriculum is organised. By thirteen or fourteen in France you are already on a a set path pretty much.

Be prepared for French bureaucracy to be tedious and very slow moving.

Do you have catering experience at all? Are you buying an established business or setting up from new?

I have British friends and Finnish friends who have both emigrated with tween or teenage children in the past 5 years. They are generally happy with their moves but less so during the pandemic and the French COVID immunisations have been very slow. I agree that unless your DD is fluent then please look at an international school for her.

OK. I work with families who move overseas and back again.

Your daughter is going to struggle. Massively.

First, I would not do this unless she is onside, and even if she is, it is going to be really hard.

a few years ago I helped a family, French mother, English Dad who moved to France. Son was 12, already spoke French, but not at school level. The first year was, for him, hell.

Your daughter is going to need massively amounts of supoprt and help from a native French speaker. From what I understand of the French system it is not very easy to move into if your French is not fluent. If she is clever, and heading for good academic success, that is likely to not be replicated in France, as she is quite old to begin to learn a language for school/exam level.

It doesn't mean it is not possible, it does mean that you need to take a long hard look at how you are going to support your daughter.

Just to compare, I would usually recommend to parents that they only do this with secondary age kids if they either already have the language, or there is an English language school available.

I've just read what your plans are.

Anyone of whatever nationality planning to open a bar or restaurant in rural France at the moment would have to be mad. They have all been closed since October and many are not planning on reopening. The good one in our village is permanently closed and a nearby village has lost its very good, always busy, restaurant. British people running bars with expat clients have been struggling for a while as Brexit has sent many people back to the UK. It will not be a a slower pace of life if you are running a bar restaurant.

Add to that the fact that as British nationals you don't have the right to work here and I just don't see how it can work.

I'm sorry to be so negative but I can't think of a single good reason to do this.

Is the place you are moving to a tourist area? the season is surprisingly short. You need to make all your money in 4 months.

Oh goodness, have you looked. The reality of this?? 4 months bloody hard work in a bar to be be stupidly quiet the rest of the time? Finances? Schooling? Language?

In the haute Vienne the season is probably more likely 6 weeks.

Haute Vienne is a mainly rural department, and quite a traditional area. Have you ever been there in winter, it can be very cold and wet?

Even well established bars are for sale or have closed due to being bankrupt, in the little town I know well. Do plenty of market research before you risk your money.

OP there are some really good forums for Brits moving to France - have you had a look? Expatforum, expat.com etc. You'll be able to get really specific advice on those.

Brit in France here but live down on the south east coast.
Very busy, lots of expats, lots of opportunities.

Can't say I really know the Haute Vienne but I do know that even here many of my restauranteur friends struggle and we have a much longer season and regular conferences throughout the year.

I've loved my time in France and don't see myself leaving. It can be amazing but just be prepared for how hard some things can be.

I would definitely recommend employing a Hand Holder to help through the mountains of paper work you will have (general life admin/carte de sejour/CAF/mututelle/insurances etc and also everything related to the business as well).

As mentioned above there are loads of expat forums. Try joining Expat Women in France and Mums Space France on Facebook - loads of advice there.

I live in the North of the Corrèze and have been here nearly 15 years. I know of 2 British couples who've come over and bought bar/restaurants, 1 in Pompadour (home of the national stud) the other about 20km North of Brive la Gaillarde.
Both couples have since split up.

We came with dd just 9 who is now nearly 24 and is forgetting her English. She's not at all academic but did much better here than she would've done in the UK and she jumped from year 4 to 5 in the move. Less than 18 months after the move she went to college where they had additional French lessons for the English pupils.

Don't know what sort of café/bar/resto you're thinking of but the standard is a working lunch for 12€/13€ which is soup, entrée, plat, cheese, dessert, coffee and 1/4l (at least) of wine. I don't know how on earth they make any money. Social charges are extortionate - think 60+% for e/ers NI equivalent.

Sadly dh is now xh due to alcoholism - a danger in rural France.

Good luck

OP

There's a tremendous amount of bang on the nose good advice upthread.

as the post says we are moving to France

(My emphasis, I'm concerned about the use of the future tense)

I take it you've checked the post Brexit situation for Brits with regard to both working in the EU and living full time in the EU.

I'm open to correction but AFAIK if you did not establish residency in France prior to 1st Jan then not only do you not currently have the right to work in France, you don't have the right to be anywhere within the Schengen Zone for more than 90 in any 180 days...

How are you planning to do the legal bit of setting up this business, if you don't speak French? Or enroll your daughter in school and talk to her teachers if she's having trouble settling in? Do you speak enough French to talk to suppliers for your pub, and if not, how will that work? How about finding somewhere to live, registering with the mairie, getting work permits? And have you allowed enough time to do all this, taking into account the school year? I don't know the area you're thinking of moving to, but bureaucracy can sometimes grind very slowly in France, even without covid to complicate things.

I wish you all the best and I would love to see this work for you, but I can see some challenges. Does it have to be now? The next year or so is likely to see a lot of opportunities in the hospitality industry open up in the aftermath of covid, and more time to think and plan and learn French would always be useful!

In the private group After Brexit Brits Living In the EU27 there are a few British bar/restaurants owners in France. Even the well established ones are having a difficult time. They have survived but times are tough in the hospitality industry all over Europe.
Good luck.