Moving to Hong Kong

[Romiha]

Hi everyone,
My husband has had an offer to teach in. Hong Kong.
He'd. Be happy to move, I'm a bit hesitant.
We have a 3 year old. Daughter and I'm. Currently 33 weeks pregnant, so we'd be moving with a toddler and a. Newborn.

Anyone out there who is currently in Hong Kong and who can give me. Some. Insights

I'm a bit. Worried about the political situation

Also, kindergartens in HK only. Ever seem. To. Be 3 hours a day

Whats the pollution like?

What areas are family friendly? We've been looking at an area called Sai Kung in the New territories - anyone living there right now?

I'd be grateful for any. Help/advice

Thank you so much!!!!

Thanks for your help

I'd be taking a long, hard look at the direction that the political and legal system is heading if travelling there with a young family. Also, what's included
In your package in terms of medical insurance, emergency repatriation/ evacuation cover etc?

Long term expat here so not being contrary, just asking the serious questions.

All depends on the package to be honest. We were offered an amazing package on paper to go to Singapore but the small print, authoritative state and cost of living made us think again, it wasn't the generous deal it appeared

I've been to Sai Kung if that helps? It was nice. It has free range cows wandering around the town! About a 40min bus ride into Kowloon if remember correctly.

Do you want to live in China is the question?

Hi OP- I'm currently in my 13th year in HK. Have 2 DC who go to an international prep school here. To answer your questions:

Political situation is basically as reported. Not great. Unlikely to directly impact you but integration of HK into China is proceeding apace. Will leave it at that. The other thing you need to consider, and which will directly impact you, is covid policy. Some people will tell you that HK has been fine as there's been "no lockdown". That is kind of BS because although they haven't limited household mixing or closed Gucci, they do bizarre things like close beaches, outdoor pools, sports grounds and kids playgrounds for months. It's been a very tough year for children in HK. Also, if you test positive (teachers are subject to fortnightly testing), you get put in hospital and your family (and other close contacts) get sent to a government quarantine camp for 14 days. No exceptions. Finally, at the moment, direct flights from UK are banned. That is likely to change some time soon. However, what is likely to be in place for sometime is a hotel based quarantine on entering HK. At the moment it is 21 days. In practical terms, this means you cant go on holiday or visit family. I haven't left HK for a year, and this place is SMALL. Also, only residents can come in, so no-one can visit. No-one knows when these restrictions will end. Having written this it sounds really bad, but this is the reality of it. HK used to be a super fun place to live but a lot of the pluses have been really eroded by Covid and there are downsides (it's expensive, air quality can be bad, houses are very small).

What is the timing on the move? Is your DH aware that HK schools have been closed since Jan 2020 with only a few weeks of in-person half days or odd days between "waves"? I'd like to think things would improve by August but he should definitely speak with people teaching here now about how they feel about it and what the challenges are of constantly teaching online or hybrid.

If you do decide to make the move, Sai Kung is a great place to live with a young family (although you would ideally need a car but driving in HK is easy once you get used to it). It's kind of rural but there are some spectacular beaches up there and the town itself is quite substantial (shops and family friendly restaurants etc).

You are right that pre-school is only 3 hours a day. There are some places offering extended days but basically no daycare other than for extreme low income families. Most families where both parents work would have a "helper" typically from the Philippines or Indonesia. They have to live in your house by law and do a combination of housework, childcare and pet care. Salaries are between HK$6-10k pcm.

HTH. It's kind of a bit shit at the moment but tbh I dont really have any way of knowing if it's more or less shit than anywhere else !!

Thanks so much for all your responses!!!
I really appreciate it.
It's such a hard decision to make with covid and everything happening atm.

I really. Need to read up more on the political situation and we haven't yet seen the medical insurance plan that they are offering.
My husband would be working at the Renaissance College, I don't know if anyone knows this school?!

@Insert1x20p
School starts mid August. Here in Germany it's. Been the same, schools mostly closed with distance learning...

What. Happens if both parents test positive. For covid? Will the kids be taken to the camp and seperated from their parents????
That would be a definite no no for me

Thanks for all your insights, maybe a pandemic isn't the best time to move and none of us know how much longer this will go on...

Have they been vaccinating people in HK? Here in Germany it's been a very slow and frustration start

Renaissance is part of ESF- it's a very established, well regarded school (ESF in general is) which attracts a mixture of expats and local kids whose parents want English medium and an enquiry based (IB) curriculum. Not sure if your DH will teach primary or secondary but in secondary you tend to get more local kids as a lot of expats go back to home country or boarding school. Good things about teaching in HK is that you generally get a very high level of behaviour and academic engagement. It's not uncool to do well in school. I wouldn't have any concerns about the school itself. ESF is a good employer.

What happens if both parents test positive. For covid? Will the kids be taken to the camp and seperated from their parents????

Yes, that's a possibility (your helper or a friend could go with them, if not gov will assign social worker) although the gov has backtracked on this a bit this week after the international press got hold of a few cases - yesterday the kids of two US consulate staff were allowed to go to the hospital with their parents- parents are asymptomatic. However, locals broadly support the government's covid control policies even if they hate the government. As an expat, if your consulate got involved, there's a 50/50 chance the gov would back down, but that's not very comforting and it does depend on the circumstances.

Vaccines- if you want one you can get one tomorrow if you're over 30. Choice between Biotech and a local one (Sinovac). Unfortunately, the take up is very low. Yesterday they reduced the eligibility age from 60 to 30 and about 3 million people became eligible. Only 120,000 slots were booked. Couple of issues - trust around vaccine development (Sinovac has poor efficacy and there's a lot of fake news around Biontech -Bill gates blah blah), low local cases so chances of getting covid quite low and no concessions in terms of quarantine/ travel for vaccinated people. I am still getting mine but not really sure why.

What I would say is, don't look at HK/China and think because we have low covid cases everything is normal. We have low cases because our borders are effectively shut and we have a lot of restrictions and draconian isolation/quarantine policies. Weirdly, locals do not seem to mind living with these restrictions.

Thank you so much for all your comments.
I really appreciate it
Sai Kung still sounds nice to us, but we wouldn't be driving. My husband doesn't even have a licence and I am a very timid driver...

Some. People have suggested, that Sai kung may not be the best place for us, because of not driving and having to depend on public transport.

Do you have to fold up your buggy on every Form. Of transport in HK, buses, minibusses and MRT?

Are things like playgrounds, beaches, playgroups, etc closed or have they reopened?

My husband's school is in Ma On Sha, are there any other neighborhoods that are family friendly with an expat community and maybe better public transport options close to MA ON Sha?

Still haven't made final decision... It's so hard

My friend in Sai Kung doesn't drive. She gets the mini buses into Kowloon.

Yes, if you live in the town or on the "highway" (one lane country road), it's possible to get minibuses and buses. However, I'd say it rules out living in one of the villages (when people talk about SK they mean the area rather than just the town) unless you want to spend a lot on Ubers and taxis. Public transport in HK is good but yes, you'd have to fold the pushchair every time and the MTR doesn't run to SK so it is very bus dependent. It will potentially increase lead times to get anywhere (at peak times you might have to wait for a few minibuses to go through full before you can get on), but that said, if you're not working and mainly meeting up with people locally and your daughter is going to nursery in SK itself, it's do-able. I should also have mentioned that most pre-schools have a bus service- either door to door or close to it.

If you're on FB, suggest join "Sai Kung Mummies" page as you'll get a better idea of what is feasible and also property prices. I live in Mid Levels so I dont know that area that well from a day to day perspective

Another possibility may be Shatin. That is quite "local" but there are expats there because of the University and tbh there are expat pockets everywhere.

Sorry- missed your question re playgrounds/ beaches etc- still closed but I'd expect them to be open again well before you arrive assuming the cases stay low (vaccination is picking up a bit now as they dropped the age limit to 30- I got mine yesterday). One benefit of SK is that you have easy access to the "non-gazetted beaches". These are beaches that are not managed by the government so they can't be closed. They are actually some of the nicer ones- Sai Wan, Ham Tin etc. Can hike into them or get a speedboat from SK pier. The SK country park is also stunning for hiking generally.

The main thing I remember about HK in general, apart from absolutely loving it, was the humidity! I think going whilst the kids are young would be fine.
Insert - can you take pushchairs on the minibuses?

You can take pushchairs on the mini buses but they usually have to be folded up.

Renaissance College is in "Ma On Shan" which is far away from Sai Kung. "Sha Tin" or Taipo or even "Ma On Shan" are close to school so you DH dont can save travel time to take care of the family.

Thanks for all your replies, I really appreciate it
We will look at all our options once we get there!

Welcome to HK before it turns into a "regular China city" in the coming, I guess, 3 years.

My husband has now also had an offer from. Singapore.... What to do?

Go to Singapore!

But, as PP said, check the contract carefully and make sure it really is as good as it might initially sound.

Living & Working in Hong Kong vs Singapore

Some info are a bit dated (e.g. HK political environment/ international status) but mostly still valid (e.g. weather, living etc)

He's getting a Wange of 8071 Singapore dollars plus 2500 Singaporean dollars in housing allowance.
No clue if that's. Enough for a comfortable life for 4

Love the person in that link that chose HK because if their teenager got caught selling drugs the sentence would be lighter 😂

@Romiha

He's getting a Wange of 8071 Singapore dollars plus 2500 Singaporean dollars in housing allowance. No clue if that's. Enough for a comfortable life for 4

Sorry is that gross? If not, factor in the tax cost. Is there any help with school fees or do you not anticipate being there long enough for that? Well, the average cost per month (without rent) for a family of four is SGD4708.00. You’d definitely want at least SGD3,500.00 for rent I’d imagine, so you’d need to use some of your own money. Depends how big and where you want to live. We lived by East Coast Park, we had SGD3,500.00 allowance and that about the cost of a two bed two bath apartment (I lived in Mandarin Gardens). But that’s quite a way from where the main business area is, but we preferred it there than the more usual expat area, where’s his place of work? Also, are you hoping to save money or are you just looking to cover your costs? Whether you can comfortably live will depend on that, how long you intend being there etc due to schooling. Also, do you intend keeping a property elsewhere and returning to that country regularly - don’t forget if you do the country where you have property/return to may have tax requirements that you would also have to pay for? (Sorry not familiar with German tax regime). It’s a fabulous place to live and is very safe for children, it’ll be a great experience for them especially if, like us, you use it as a base to travel all round Asia.

Lived in both. Will reply when I get a chance!

Thanks for your responses.
It's gross. So 8000 Singaporean dollars in wages plus 2500 housing. I'm guessing the total sum of 10.500 will be taxed

My. Daughter can go to the schools nursery free of charge.

From whar I can tell, the school is close to clementi and Queenstown.

We don't own any. Property in our home country, but we would. Like to hire a helper. Not sure how much that would cost.

We don't necessarily want to save any. Money, we just want to have a. Comfortable family. Life, where we can maybe eat out occasionally and maybe visit countries, Thailand, Vietnam etc that are close to Singapore

Don't know if 10.500 gross is enough for that.
I'm not a teacher, so don't know how easy it would be for me. To get a job-im a. Psychologist and Psychotherapist.

But I'd be at home with the baby for a while in anyway...