Anyone with experience of living in Rome, especially with small DC?

[ScepticalBandicoot]

An opportunity has come up to move to Rome temporarily for work, probably for 3-4 years. We've done a couple of international moves for work before and I have visited Rome a couple of times, but Italy has never been on our radar for an actual move and I feel very clueless. Can anyone give me any pointers as to where to start looking for info on housing, childcare, general cost of living, while we weigh up the decision? We would be moving with a 2 year old who so far has zero experience of childcare but would need to start full time with nursery or childminder. Also complicated by the fact that we are TTC, so I might end up giving birth in Italy at some point - no idea what the Italian maternity experience is like. Aaaaargh, so much to consider.... I would love to hear from anyone with experience!

Not in Rome but in northern Italy although I used to go there often for work. I can give you pointer re cost of living in general and also maternity in Italy as I gave birth here.

Childcare for a 2 yo will be in a nido, childminders are rare in Italy and tend to be in the north. However, if your child is nearing 3 they would go to a scuola materna, which covers 3-6. There are public ones, often attached to schools, which are free and you only pay fir the lunch. Otherwise there are private options, from the state-subsidised catholic schools, which cost around €200 a month, to non religious community schools and pricier private options, such as bilingual schools. There won’t be any formal learning, it’s learning though play and many state pre schools use Montessori methods. Primary school proper starts at 6.

Maternity care in Italy is excellent, more tests and scans than what is available on the NHS and all free. Mortality rates are much better than the U.K., one of the lowest in the world. It is more medicalised, though, and midwife only care is rare. I had monthly appointments with my gynae, monthly blood tests for pretty much everything, plus 3 scans (if you go private you get a scan every month) and hospital monitoring when you near your due date. Maternity leave is also very good here if you work.

Cost of living in Italy is cheaper for some things and pricier for others. Cheaper: accommodation (although Rome is one of the pricier cities), public transport, eating out and entertainment. More expensive is food shopping, but it does depend on what you eat and the food does tend to be better quality and less processed, more in season stuff. There are loads of local markets, bakeries etc. which don’t cost a lot, plus decent wine is also cheaper. Car owning is also pricey, but in Rome there loads of car sharing schemes available so you don’t really need one.

Rome is a fabulous place, quite apart from the city itself and the amazing history you’re near the beach and surrounded by hills. The Apennines are not far away for trekking, plus you’re within easy reach of Tuscany, Umbria, Marche, Campania, Puglia. Trains are cheap by U.K. standards, including the high speed network, which is very efficient.

For housing it would depend on where you work, Rome is fairly large so it would probably be easier to live vaguely in the same area.

Thank you so much, this is really helpful.

For childcare, DC would be nearly 3 so it sounds like it would be a scuola materna. I like the sound of the Montessori system and we would be happy with either state or church-run. Don't think we could afford the private non-subsidised ones - I looked into bilingual ones just to see, but they all seem to be £££. Do they tend to be nurturing environments, from your experience with your DC? I'm a bit worried about how mine will cope going from home full time to full time nursery, especially as we don't speak Italian yet and it would be a big change. Has childcare in Italy been very disrupted by Covid?

I think we'd absolutely love the Roman lifestyle in pre-Covid times, but I'm a bit worried about moving somewhere where we have no friends or family support if there are likely to be heavy restrictions again. Wish we had a crystal ball and could see what the autumn and winter will bring. If I didn't have DC and there were no pandemic I would move in a heartbeat!!

The job is near Trastevere and I think we'd be relying on public transport so would ideally like to be in that general area as I've read dire things about Roman buses, but I'm not sure how family friendly it is (mostly small flats without gardens and so on) especially in the event of another lockdown.

I lived there a few years ago. I wouldn't do it again for a number of reasons, but especially not with the current pandemic. I didn't have a family then, but I worked with families as a nanny. No garden space, apartments with old amenities, difficult to get anything done. It wasn't a long term thing for me to stay there, so thankfully I didn't have to deal with it. But I think you'll be in for a culture shock if you're moving from the U.K.

I did give birth in Italy, though! And I moved to Germany soon after because I didn't want to experience another birth there again.
If you don't speak the language it'll be even worse I think.
This is just my personal experience though. I might have just been unlucky.

Maternity care in Italy is excellent, more tests and scans than what is available on the NHS and all free

I would just add that the health care you can actually get depends on your region too. In general I think the Italian system is pretty good but I had to pay for quite a few scans as there was just no availability in the public system where I live. With my second pregnancy I did a test in the morning - and booked my first scan straightaway so as not to miss out!

Scuola materna (3 - 6) tends to be really good quality, in fact I think both public nurseries and scuole materne are excellent. (The school system goes downhill later but that's another story....)

I wouldn't be too worried about a garden as it will be hugely expensive. In general, it is probably better to find somewhere near a decent park as this will become the hub of your child's social life if you live in a city anyway.

Do they tend to be nurturing environments, from your experience with your DC?

Very nurturing in my experience - my dd11 still has such fond memories of her teacher at scuola materna.

I agree that you will be in for a culture shock.
Public transport in Rome is a nightmare, it's bad enough without a small child and a pram in tow. Car owning is expensive and the traffic is horrific, parking spaces are like gold dust.
A nice flat in a decent area is expensive.
Parks and playgrounds are fewer and further apart than in the UK, they are often in quite a bad state too.

I loved living in Italy, but not Rome. Its a very stressful place to live and I would never want to raise my children there.

Interesting how different some experiences of Italian maternity care seem to have been. Sorry you had such a bad time, jerriblank.

This is very reassuring to hear about the scuola materne, Sometimesonly. DC settling in would be a big priority. That is also a very good point about a park being as good as a garden, pretty much.

Can I ask whether any of you lived there not speaking Italian, at least at the start? We would obviously try to learn (we're already a multilingual household), but would be starting totally from scratch and I've heard that Italians often don't speak much English so I imagine things like navigating rentals, nurseries and maternity care might be pretty stressful, especially if what I hear about Italian bureaucracy is correct?

Also, what would be the Roman equivalent of Rightmove/Zoopla, if I want to browse rentals to get a sense of cost?

Women I'm sure you're right that it would be a shock. I would be quite keen to get a flat near work and nursery if possible and walk to work, avoiding the car ownership and public transport issue at least for the daily commute. But maybe that is unrealistic. It would be only be for a few years, very unlikely to be a permanent move. Wanting to give DC a bit of Italian/Roman culture would be an incentive to do it, but as I say, the pandemic is making me uncertain as I definitely don't want to spend months sitting in a tiny flat with them unable to go out!

To have an idea of rental prices you could look here:

www.tecnocasa.it/affitto/immobili/lazio/roma/roma/testaccio-trastevere.html

I could already speak Italian when I arrived - after 20 years here though I still find the Roman accent a bit challenging.

I definitely don't want to spend months sitting in a tiny flat with them unable to go out!

I really hope we don't have another lockdown like last year's as I don't think I could cope! (3 kids in a flat). This time round we can still exercise and go out for walks - pleeease don't let it get any stricter.

Thank you for the rentals link. Really helpful! Now I just need to work out enough Italian to look effectively.

Fingers crossed for you on the lockdown. 3 kids in a flat and not allowed out even for a walk? That must have been a total and utter nightmare.

It was not great - but looking on the bright side, for once, everybody volunteered to take out the rubbish as it was such a novelty to be outside for a few minutes!

I've been in Italy for 27 years, though not in Rome.

There is a Mumsnetter called BananaGio in Rome, though she's not around much these days.

The scuola Materna system is very much more like the early years setting in the UK rather than what a Brit would think of as a nursery. 99.9% of three year olds go, you're considered odd if you don't send your child though it's not compulsory. In the last year of Materna most will learn to read and write (they are 5 going on 6 after all) If you want Montessori they tend to be private. My DD went to a private one and I was very happy with it.

I agree with birth being very medicalised, pregnancy is seen as a bit of an illness by many. You can get free treatment but by and large women have their own gynaecologists- either because of waiting times or because they don't want to see a difference person each time, which could happen in theory. Nappies cost about 10 times more than in the UK and formula milk is also a lot more expensive.

I'm in the south and find the cost of living generally higher than the UK. Utility bills are much more expensive. Rents here are about the same as the UK. Buying would be more expensive.

I am actually a big fan of the Italian school system (or I wouldn't still be here)

I couldn't speak a word of Italian when I came. It took me probably two years. I did speak Spanish which helped with things.

Re: the pandemic. I am a zillion times happier to have been in Italy (and in almost 30 years I've not said that much) than in the UK. The kids have had live online lessons since the 16th March. Compliance with the rules has meant that things were relaxed sooner. The rules are easier tbh wear a mask, and do your shopping before the curfew. That's about it. We're in and out of school but the online lessons work. (I'm a teacher)

I agree with whoever said that healthcare availability is based on region, a bit like the NHS postcode lottery I would imagine. I’m in Milan with excellent maternity and paediatric teaching hospitals and when I was pg there was a consultorio famigliare (family clinic) about 100m from my flat and I got assigned the same gynae and midwife who followed me throughout the pregnancy. However that closed down and moved to another one a 15 min walk further away where there was also a paediatric clinic where you got help with breastfeeding, weaning advice, baby massage sessions etc.

My friend in Puglia,however, needed to travel 80km to Bari to see her private gynae and there were none of those facilities where she was. I have no idea what Rome is like, I would assume pretty well set up as it is a major city.

Yes about needing to ring around for scan appointments in random places, it was touch and go I would find somewhere for my 32wk scan before my due date! Once it was worse, you needed to queue at the hospital in person to book appoints, luckily 14 years ago there was a handy switchboard where they would search the whole city for you. Actually you can probably do it online now.

I also echo the PP who said they were glad to be in Italy during the pandemic and not the U.K. Very clear guidelines throughout on what you could and couldn’t do, pretty good adherence to the rules from most of the public, lots of temp checking in shops and you get chucked out if you don’t have a mask. I’ve had a lot more respect for the Italian govt’s handling of the pandemic after seeing the shitshow in the U.K.