Move to New York City and cost of living worries

[NYCDreaming]

We're currently a family of four living on a single income in an expensive city in the south east (not London) on a wage of £30k. We don't have expensive tastes, no car, fortunately we own our home outright, and we live simply but we are comfortable. We have four year old twins and one of them has a disability.

DH has unexpectedly been offered a job in NYC (Upper East Side) and our first instinct is that we would love to go, but we are concerned that although the money is better (not fully set yet but in the region of $90k and untaxed for the first two years) we know that NYC is an expensive place to live and we will have extra costs (especially health insurance, particularly because of our child's disability) which might make it a struggle.

There is also an element of 'we don't know what we don't know' and we would hate to be taken by surprise by costs when we got there and possibly have to go into debt or return to the UK.

Can anyone who has been in this situation please give advice? How much would health insurance cost? What other costs might we not have thought of? Is the cost of day to day living much higher in New York? Where do we start in making this decision?

Look at New Jersey. Lots of people live in NJ and commute in.

I believe we will be able to get subsidised housing from my DH's employer, so I'm not overly concerned about housing. I'm more interested in general cost of living, and in particular health insurance including a child with a disability.

It would be unusual for you (i.e the whole family) not to get health insurance as part of your husband's package with his employer. He should negotiate that and re-settlement expenses as part of his deal.

Living expenses in NYC are high, but equivalent to London, I would say.

(Haven't been in your position but I have friends who made the move both ways and have visited NY a lot.)

Also holidays. Most people only get two weeks holiday a year in the US but some companies will allow ex-pats more.

Does husband’s employer offer health insurance through work? Ask them what they offer. If that’s the case, you would need a pay a co-pay for any services. The price of the treatments will vary though.

People who live/have lived there, is $90k enough to support a family of four over there? Including medical expenses, flying home for a visit once a year or so, taxes etc?

I have lived in a cheaper part of the US and I would say that $90k is not enough to live comfortably in NYC. Rent is far higher than it is here. Our health insurance had a $10k deductible as well. You definitely need to make sure that you fully understand the package your DH is being offered and the health insurance coverage. Can you negotiate annual flights home?

I believe we will be able to get subsidised housing from my DH's employer, so I'm not overly concerned about housing. I'm more interested in general cost of living, and in particular health insurance including a child with a disability.

The health insurance premiums won't be affected by having a child with a disability.

You'll most likely be offered a variety of health insurance plans - some with a higher premium and lower out of pocket costs, others with a lower premium and higher out of pocket costs.

The out of pocket costs are limited by law, but can be up to $16,400 if you use out of network doctors.

Your premiums will really depend on how much your husband's employer chooses to subsidize them. Ours are around $1,000 a month for a family with children, with a $6,000 out of pocket max. The premiums are high because only DH's premium is subsidized, and it is a small company.

In my last job our premiums were $3,500 a year with a $500 per year out of pocket limit because that company did choose to subsidize the whole family's premiums, and it was a large company.

To answer your other questions - housing is the biggest cost for New Yorkers, so if you have subsidized housing then you could possibly live on that income.

Disabled people are fairly well looked after in the US at school - not sure sure about things like social support.

You should look carefully at what the schools are like in the areas you might live.

The out of pocket costs are limited by law, but can be up to $16,400 if you use out of network doctors.

This is per year BTW - I didn't make that very clear. In your case I'd guess you'd most likely be much better off going with a high premium, low-out-of-pocket-cost plan, on the basis that you know you're going to incur medical expenses, and assuming your employer will subsidize those premiums heavily.

We lived in NYC for two years on $125k and found it tight. We moved from London and found New York much more expensive to live in day-to-day.

Grocery shopping is eye-wateringly expensive.

Are you sure it won't be taxed for 2 years? That doesn't sound right to me

I don't think it will be anywhere near enough. You are living on £30k, so around $40k a year with no rent

Rent will be expensive, plus general living costs are more in NYC. Healthcare is a huge consideration, as well as after school activities for children (which are hugely more expensive than in the UK)

Even phone contracts and internet costs are much higher than the UK

Ex-New York dweller here:

Whether housing is subsidised or not, I would still look at living in Queens, Brooklyn or New Jersery. First, so your total living cost will still be less and second groceries in NYC are soooo expensive! That was my massive bug bear. And $ you save on rent you can put towards a rental car - city living with two kids that age can be a bit limitless and boring after a while. Suburbs mean potential for a small garden and more access to ‘community’ and being able to drive to strip malls etc. Good luck, what an adventure!

Are you sure it won't be taxed for 2 years? That doesn't sound right to me

I thought similar.

Also OP, if you own your home outright then will you be renting it out once you move abroad? So you'd have some extra income from that?

Hi

I wouldn’t have thought it affordable without having health insurance through your husband’s employer.

Otherwise, like London, there are people that live on vastly different salaries. If you’re managing in the S East on £30k then I would have thought NY manageable on $90k- but I would set things up so you can come back if it doesn’t work out.

The UES is expensive but subway is fast so you can live a little bit off the East Side and still get to work easily.

Hi, I live in NYC, is it a fellowship at Mt Sinai or similar?

First, I'd find out about how much the housing is already going to cost. Even with a subsidy a 3 bed on the UES could set you back 3k a month.

For cheaper neighborhoods I'd look out in Queens - Astoria or Sunnyside. Don't live in NJ the commute will be horrible.

Health insurance will come with the job and you'll all be covered, the out of pocket costs will depend on the plan you choose.

Grocery shopping is expensive, but other than that I wouldn't say the cost of living is crippling. The subway is cheap and there's plenty of free things to do with children.

city living with two kids that age can be a bit limitless and boring after a while

Could agree less. City living is perfect for kids.

I struggled on just shy of that as a single person in Manhattan with no rent or health insurance to pay. Admittedly I wasn't living a particularly frugal lifestyle but I just can't really see how it would be feasible for a family of four. The cost of groceries etc was unbelievable.

Be careful about the conditions of your health plan. Not all medical services are covered and copays can be expensive.

allfurcoatnoknickers you got it spot on! Hence the tax-free income. Thank you for your perspective, it's particularly helpful as you actually live in NYC.

TemporaryName123 we definitely wouldn't get a car. We're living in a city with kids at the minute without a car and it definitely doesn't get boring. NYC would be far bigger with a lot more to do.

HoldMyLobster yes we would be looking to rent out our house while we were gone (should make around £1500 per month), but I would hesitate to add that income into my projections because it's not guaranteed.

Thanks for so much food for thought everyone. I'm going to chase down exact numbers for health insurance and housing this week and go from there. I will probably come back with a figure for our disposable income and ask you whether it's realistic.

Hi, I live in NY and was in NYC for 5 years before moving out to the burbs of NY.

I'd say that $90k is really low for a family of 4; a lot of your costs will be rent, groceries and utilities. If you get subsidized rent from DH employer then check where it is, as this will drive where your kids go o school. The rule of thumb is usually 'better' school areas drive the rent prices up. You could live further out but then need to check the commute for your DH as getting to the UES if you have to cross the city horizontally or up from Brooklyn is a pita

Groceries are high cost- there's no tesco express or similar driving economies of scale for purchasing, especially if you live in / around the city. For a family of 3 I usually spend on average $180 -$200 a week (includes cleaning stuff and laundry stuff) and that's shopping around at the cheapest places. We do eat meat but I do budget

Utilities (phones, electric etc) are also high compared to the UK as there minimal competition. I've also found kids stuff more expensive - so clothes, activities etc. Kids classes (gymnastics or whatever) usually come in ~$30+ upwards a session, and I never really found anything that was equivalent to a cheap / good drop in like you get in the UK. BUT this depends on area - the UES is v family friendly and you're right by the park and you're not far from the major museums etc

Imo, its way more expensive than the UK and London, and thats before factoring in flights home etc

Health insurance is probably the big one; atm you shouldn't be excluded from cover because of your son (they can't refuse for pre-existing conditions under Obama care, don't know how long that will last..) As well as checking what your employer provides you need to check what the excess you'd pay would be

We've just chose our insurance plan for next year; we get good provision (employer pays ~78% of the costs as subsidy) Our choice of the 4 plans they offer was based on how ill we may be / any known surgery coming up plus how we cover any shortfall in costs

Our insurance cost per month is $550 pre tax, which covers health, dental and vision. Our costs are pro rated based on salary, so the higher take home pay the higher you pay, but its relative to pay. On top of this $550 we have to pay the first $6k a year in excess; once we reach the $6k there's a sliding scale of what else we have to pay - preventative stuff (screening etc) I think its $0, the other stuff (A&E admission, consultant visit etc) we have to pay the first 20% of costs

Everyones plan / costs will be different depending on situation, but I can safely safe its one of our largest costs. On the flip side, coverage is excellent (again, will depend on your plan...) and there's never any quibble about tests, X-rays, no waits to see the Dr etc

Irt services for your kid, NYS actually has good mandated provision for services such as speech therapy, 1:1 assistants in classrooms etc for free,, am happy to provide info if thats relevant for you as we get services in school for our kid (who's also 4)

I'd also factor in the costs of keeping your UK house and renting it out. I kept my UK place and rent it out - I keep 1/3 - 1/2 of what I get in rent for it aside as every year without fail there's been repairs needed!

I would generally say $90K is not enough unless you are getting a bargain deal on rent or really scrimp--that said, $90K tax free is effectively worth quite a bit more (make sure that's also exempt from state and city tax!) so it might be doable if you are frugal.

NYC is particularly steep for groceries and other daily expenses. I am not one of those people who think everyone needs $200K--but many lower income families in New York are making it because they have family support or cheap rent (less common these days!) which you won't have. It used to be that London was more expensive than NYC but with the weak pound and increases in US cost of living that's not true now. I remember pre-2008 when everyone was getting cheap flights to the US to go shopping. Not anymore.

Insurance depends on how much your deductible (excess) is and how much of the premium you have to pay. As for your child's disabilityschool based services in New York have an excellent reputation, but copays for services through health insurance can add up. I have 2 DC with special needsif they needed speech or occupational therapy I would pay $30 a visit for example.

I would also suggest living in NJ or Queens.

@NYCDreaming Ahhh! I thought so! I have had a couple of friends who did them, so the setup sounded familiar. They were both couples with no kids, but the hospital should have a significantly subsidized apartment for you in an UES apartment building. Normandie Court is a big one. To the best of my knowledge, the schools up there are excellent, and working for a hospital should provide you all with gold plated health insurance and a good HR department to guide you through the process.

I'm not sure how much the subsidy is, but if the housing's affordable you could definitely do it. It would be tight, and you'd have to budget carefully, but it's workable .

@NYCDreaming Oh and happy to chat by DM if you want to! I have a baby in Manhattan and my husband was born and raised on the UES, so happy to chat about having kids here, cheap and free things to do, FB groups to join etc.

@allfurcoatnoknickers thank you so much for your messages, it's so helpful that you've seen people make this exact setup work. I do like the sound of significantly subsidised apartments, excellent schools and gold plated health insurance!

Because we'll get this tax-free loophole $90k is apparently the equivalent of getting $125k normally. Today we've decided to provisionally say yes to the offer but asked them to get back to us with concrete numbers for said housing and insurance.

It's going to be tight but it will probably be our only chance to live in NYC, so we're going to go for it!

I would love to chat via DM if you do have some good tips