questions about possible relocation to PA, USA

[rootscan]

we (dh, 5mth old dd & I) are looking to move to the States in the next year or so - probably just outside philadelphia. would anyone be able to advise on the following:

1. how much would it cost to ship the contents of a small 2 bed house (v rough estimate - hundreds? thousands?)? i know shipping is expensive but would anyone be able to give me an idea of just how expensive it is? we've gots lots of books, papers & clothes that we would definitely want to bring with us.

2. how expensive is the cost of living in that area? we currently live in north london & i know that it probably is cheaper in the States...is it possible for the 3 of us to live on 1 salary? i know that would depend on what dh's salary would be & what kind of lifestyle we would want. any ideas on what sort of 'minimum' we would need to live?

any advice would be greatly appreciated. or if you could point me in the direction of some good websites, that would be helpful too...we're really keen on relocating but just a bit concerned about the finances...

Hi rootscan, I just checked our "living in the US" thread and there is no one in PA. But I know there should be websites on cost of living estimates for different US cities so that could be a start for you. I am one of those MN rarities - a native American living in the US - and from what I can tell it will be much, much less expensive. Especially if you are outside the city. Pennsylvania gets rural fairly quickly from what I have seen in traveling through there which would mean good prices on housing. (Plus there is a housing price slump right now.)

With 3 people and a decent salary you should do fine, imo.

HTH

Hi there. I'm an expat living in Colorado and loving it here. To give you an idea of shipping costs. We shipped a 4 bed + basement house - loads of books, two three piece suites, five beds etc etc. via Allied Pickford. The shipping, packing, unpacking, customs clearance etc cost roughly 6000. Using professionals means that you can get through customs at this side. But you may have to manage it slightly as I did. Think Califrau may also have had a few issues. That shipping was for a 40ft container soley for us. You can go part shipment which is loads cheaper, but can take longer. Our stuff was en route from Scotland to Colorado from 1Sept to 31 October, but Hurricanes didn't help . You can live on one salary - we do here and are funding two homes and private education (pre-school) for ds2. I am starting work though.

Quick question - are you coming on a company sponsored visa or are you or your dh American?

I'm not much help but I know people who have lived in PA, so if you can give a few more specifics, I might be able to get some information for you.

FWIW, there were 3 of us (H, DS & I) living in a 2 bed rented apartment in Chicago (expensive) on about $42,000. We were able to live comfortably, go out to eat, run the car, go on holidays etc without worrying too much.

We got this book before we moved out here and it was worth it's weight in gold!

Also, have a look in the archives or at our expats thread

thanks for the replies!

jabberwocky ? thanks for your reassurance & checking to see if there was anyone in PA. i shall try to find one of those websites which estimate the cost of living?can you give me an idea (as an American) what you would consider a ?decent salary? for a 'middle class'-ish lifestyle?

alipiggie ? thanks for giving me an idea of what shipping costs are (i?m assuming that was in pounds). it?s good to know that it is possible to live on one salary ? though i guess that really depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. we are currently in that situation as i decided to become a sahm when we had dd and knew that we weren?t planning on staying in the UK longterm. we are hoping to go to the States on a company sponsored visa ? any tips/advice?

mamama ? that book looks great. i?ll definitely be buying that! thanks to the info about Chicago. would you mind me asking if the $42k was pre/post-tax? do you think you can run 2 cars on one salary? i don?t think i would be driving lots but i would like to be able to get out & about with dd without having to rely on my feet/public transportation all the time. we?ll probably end up in Montgomery county area - closer the the Philadelphia side(as I think that?s where the company that dh works for has a site). initially we plan on renting but then may consider buying (depending on how long we stay in PA) and will be running at least one car. is there anything else i could tell you which would help for additional info?

any tips for what we should be looking for in the benefits & relocation packages (when the times comes)? i know that we'll need health insurance but are there different kinds?

will try to have a nose round the archives & expats thread when i have a chance (ie when dd is sleeping & when i'm not too tired)...

Hi, I'm one of those rare American in America people on the site. I'll put in my 2 cents and hope it helps.

Income and pricing of goods really varies across the country. DH makes an above average wage here, and my being a SAHM doesn't really inconvenience us, but will never be rich or anything like that. I guess we put a lot more away toward retirement than most people, too, though. If we were in many areas of the central part of the country or the south, we'd be pretty well off. However, if we were where Califrau is, or in a big metropolitan area like NY or Boston, I think we would be in for a big shock, and not in a good way. Different states have different kinds of taxes and tax rates (for instance here in Oregon we're one of the few states that doesn't have a sales tax, but we have really high property taxes, and gas taxes that are some of the highest in the nation) that would be a good thing to check out, too.

I googled Montgomery county PA statistics, and came up with some good websites. However I've been up and down 4 times from here with my kids and can't find them after closing them out. Try googling that. I did find that the median income there was $65,000, which seems to be about $20,000 higher than the rest of PA. I about choked on housing prices there. It looked like to get an equivalent to our house there it would be $100,000 LESS that what we are paying now. If you aren't in Philly proper, things are usually a bit cheaper in the suburbs. It has been about 12 years since I've been in PA, but it seemed really nice and fairly inexpensive compared to what I'm used to.

When we were thinking of moving before, I went on Yahoo groups, and found groups in the area we were thinking of moving to, and asked if I could join to find out about the area and what we were getting ourself into. People there were really helpful and friendly, and I was able to get a good idea of the ups and downs and what was expensive and inexpensive about the area. You might want to try that if you are having trouble. I also checked into moms groups in the area, and that was great, because most of them were SAHMs like me, and what they had to say and what was important to them was very important.

If your DH is getting health insurance through his employer, you will usually be limited to one or a few options they offer. Insurance is a big expense wherever you go, and what kinds of coverage, and how much employers contribute vary greatly even in the same industry. There are thousands upon thousands of different insurance plans here. Car insurance varies widely, too. If you don't have an expensive car, and it isn't considered a big risk and you don't drive it much, it isn't that much to afford 2 cars. We inherited a car this year, and have 3, and it isn't that much more than 2, because we hardly drive one at all. Like a lot of things, it is all about where you live, because car insurance is all about zip codes, and someone could have the exact same cars and drive the exact same miles in a different part of the country, and their rates could vary widely. It is a lot more to insure our cars where we are now then when we were in the middle of nowhere.

DH has been moved by his company across the state once, so I don't know how relevant it is, but basically they did everything in their power so that we weren't inconvenienced by the move. In terms of moving our belongings, we had a company pack, move and unpack in our new house. They paid our mortgage on our old house until we sold it, and if we hadn't sold our house in 6 months, they would have bought it at fair market value. We actually made a bit off the move, because they figured we wouldn't find a house right away, and added up how much it would cost to stay in a hotel for a few months and eat out, and gave us that as a lump sum. (We just lived with the in-laws for a few weeks and pocketed all but what we gave the in-laws for staying with them). They even paid the taxes on the money they gave us, because the IRS considers that taxable income. They had a person dedicated to corporate relocations, and they were always at our disposal to answer any questions or problems that came up.

Sorry for the book. Hopefully some of this rambling helps.

Depends on what field your DH is in for a visa. The best ones to get are go straight for a person of exceptional ability which can then lead to an EB1 Green Card - which are current and fast track.

We came on an H1B which was got in a few months. But those have now all been allocated for 2007/8 so no chance of getting one of those. My H works in IT and is one of only 35 or so in the world who does what he does.

Yes the costs were in pounds, sorry have trouble finding the pound sign on this keyboard .

Big big tip, get a GOOD Immigration Lawyer to assist you and you can be in quickly and without any hassle. The one we've got is not good and has wasted one year during which we could have got the Green Card. You can always contact me offline for more info.

alison smits (no gap between names) at gmail dot com

Hi rootscan. I think c&Cm's information on the 65000 median income sounds about right especially with such a young dd.

One thing you will probably love about living in the US is the plethora of really great children's consignment shops. Especially at the age of your little one, you should never have to pay full price for anything unless you want just want to buy it new. They have all sorts of baby clothes, etc. that are in great shape.

jabberwocky - there are NO consignment stores here at all

jabberwocky ? thanks for the tip about the consignment shops. hadn?t really thought about that but definitely a great idea. luckily, i bought lots of the basics for dd this past xmas when i was at home (Canada). plus my parents & siblings have been buying dd lots of clothes & have brought them over when they?ve come to meet her so we haven?t had to buy too many things over here.

alipiggie ? thanks for the advice about visas & yeah, you may be hearing from me offline! you?re lucky with your H having such an ?exclusive? profession.

colinandcaitlinsmommy ? i really appreciate your rambling. it gave me a lot to think about. i?ve had a bit of time to do some googling on Montgomery county & found the figures re: median income, etc. i'll definitely look into doing the thing with the yahoo groups. can i ask how you found about the mom groups in the area ? was this via the yahoo groups? i know that we?ll probably be able to live/survive on one salary in the states but like you said, we?d never be rich. my worry is can you still save money for retirement/children?s college fund in this sort of situation?

i thought i was a worrywart before i had kids...now that we have a baby, it's moved to a whole new level...

I know, having kids brings on a whole new set of neurosis.

I take a different approach for the kid's clothes. I buy everything on clearance the year before (my kids have been really good about fitting in the size they should fit in for the age) and buy a lot of "brand names" for way, way off the original price. I found I can sell them on e-bay or Craigslist and get back a good amount of what I paid for them. I've found I actually can dress my kids cheaper than people who shop at Wal-Mart or other places like that.

I targeted the towns we were looking at, and then searched Yahoo groops. I also googled (name of the town I was looking at) moms groups, and that came up with results also.

DH does a really good job of putting money away. We live in a much cheaper house than we could, and don't drive flashy cars, but we're by no means in dire straits or a dump. If they want to move your DH here, I'm assuming he'd have a fairly decent wage? There's 4 of us living on 1 income, and we're fine. It was a big worry of mine when we had our 1st, and I knew we were going to go broke if I didn't work, but it hasn't happened that way at all. I'd give anything not to have wasted all that time and energy the first year wondering what was going to happen.

Rootscan,

Would this be a company move?

rootscan DH and I lived in NJ just across the river from Philly for about 4 yrs we spent lots of time in Philly. And I'm one of those Americans living in the UK but I'm off to do the weekly shop now, so will write when I'm back (hopefully, if DC let me)..........

Oh, if I could get that organized c&cm...

rootscan -- my recollections of Philly area (bearing in mind it was 10 yrs ago).

1. Outlet malls -- there are lots in the area! Fantastic for getting even better bargins ! Burlington and one in Reading were ones we went to frequently.

2. In philly "proper" (ie downtown) it changes really quickly from bad to good in terms of neighborhoods. I frequently got lost in the one way systems and would end up in some very dodgy areas. So always try to know where you are going

3. We had one car, but we lived in a small "town". It had an actual main street and we lived above a chemist. So we could walk to the grocery, etc. But a lot of areas around there aren't necessarily a town with a main street. So you'll have to choose carefully if you want to get away with one car. Public transport was virtually non-existant for us in Moorestown. There was an occasional bus. Though there was a train system in and around Philly. We just had to drive to get to it

4. There is a British / Irish ex-pat community there.

5. In the summer it can be hot and humid !!! Really Hot and Really Humid. Make sure your house has air-con !!! I don't take heat well (red hair, pale skin) and got heat stroke and heat exhaustion while there, if I wasn't careful.

Hi there. We are further on in the same process as dh has just got his L1 visa and we are about to move over. We are going to Dayton, Ohio, so a bit further West ( and less urban than Philly!). We had a 5 bedroom house here in Scotland but got rid of a great deal of furnature and stuff before shipping so probably shipped about the same amount as you are talking about (tons of books!). Our packing, shipping and unpacking cost £4.5k which was almost the same amount everyone was quoting us. That was a 20ft container. If you have less than this you will share a container which can cause lots of delays and is more expensive per sq metre. If your dh company are transferring you, they will help with paperwork and legal things - I can't imagine how we would have managed without that help!
IN terms of cost of living - as it has been said before this can change drastically depending on where you are. We have just bought a HUGE 5 bed house in the Suburbs for the equivalent of £120,000. At 30yrs old we will be mortgage free and I am giving up work for a while. There are obviously costs elsewhere that will balance this out (dental for our two kids will be a big expense and in the long term there will be uni etc) It is definately a buyers market at the moment across the states and living in London, the cost of property will make you sick! A good realtor will be a great help, even if you change your mind. (the seller pays their fee, not you) Let me know if you have any other questions!

dogykeeper -- You are going to my home state I grew up in Mt Vernon Ohio (largest town in the county at 15,000 ) about 60 mi NE of Columbus. We're off next Tues for 3 wks in Ohio visiting my family.
we'll be passing Dayton on our way to Kings Island (Cincinnati) which the kids can't wait to go to.

Mt Vernon is a very pretty town. We have driven through it many times when visiting BIL, who lives in Holmes County.

little known fact is that Mt Vernon was used in films during the 2nd World War to film items for the troops as it was one of the few towns that still had milk delivery. Or at least that is what people say

colinandcaitlinsmommy ? thanks for your advice & reassurance. it?s helped to ease some of my worries. i?ll try the yahoo groups thing if and when DH gets a job in the states. my DH sounds a bit like yours ? he?s good with saving & budgeting (really appreciate that now that i'm home with dd). i?m not too concerned with the flashy cars but would like to eventually live in a relatively nice house as we currently live in a tiny 2 bedroom house at the moment. mind you, north american accommodation generally is larger than uk accommodation (unless you?re really well off over here!) initially i think we?ll rent (just in case we don?t like the area) but eventually plan on buying a house.

usaukmum ? thanks for the heads up about the outlet malls! love those! i?ve heard that downtown philly can be a bit iffy in places. is it a nice city on the whole? is there lots to do there? not that i?ll be going often but just for occasional visits as dd gets older. i did check the average summer temps for philly & know that AC is a must! by any chance do you know if we have to wait a certain amount of time in PA to establish a credit history before we would be eligible to get a mortgage? the only reason i?m asking is because i vaguely remember my cousin saying that when she moved to Boston (from Canada), they had to wait 2 years to establish a credit history before they could get a mortgage to buy a house ? or am i imagining things?

scienceteacher ? it?s not exactly a company move. the aim is to apply for another job in the states with the same company. there may be help with relocation costs but don?t know how much help would be available.

dodgykeeper ? lucky you! good luck with the move! i wish we were further along thanks for letting me know about your experiences. i can?t believe how expensive shipping is! did you end up getting rid of most of your furniture, etc. in your house in Scotland? any suggestions on how to get the best ?deal? with negotiating relocation costs or were you fortunate enough to have ally relocation costs covered? you?re really fortunate to be mortgage free! oh how i dream of those days...btw, how did you go about choosing which area to buy your house in Dayton?

Philly is nice. You just have to stay out of the dodgy areas. But it is easy to learn where they are.

You can take the ferry from Penn's Landing and the Independence Seaport Museum to the aquarium, children's garden, and battleship in Camden, New Jersey. In West Fairmount Park you'll find the zoo. My office used to be right next to the aquarium.

Playgrounds--Rittenhouse Square at 18th and Walnut streets has a small playground and space in which to eat and relax. Other imaginative playgrounds on this side of Center City are Schuylkill River Park at Pine and 26th streets, and at 26th Street and the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, opposite the art museum. Nearest Independence Hall, try Delancey Park at Delancey between 3rd and 4th streets (with lots of fountains and animal sculptures to climb on) or Starr Garden at 6th and Lombard streets. The best park in Fairmount Park is the Smith Memorial (head north on 33rd St., then take a left into the park at Oxford Ave., near Woodford).

Entertainment--There is lots of children's theater in Philadelphia. The Arden Theatre at 40 N. 2nd St. (tel. 215/922-1122) is one of a dozen companies that produces children's theater year-round. Mum Puppettheatre at 115 Arch St. presents a season of thought-provoking and enjoyable plays for all ages; call tel. 215/925-8686 for schedule and details.

Aslo the Please Touch Musuem

Also here is a website for schools:
PA Schools House prices will vary drastically (as they do here) for the good school districts.

I don't know if it is 2 yrs for the mortgage, but you do have to have some sort of credit rating. It may vary with the different banks. I don't know how they deal with relocating from another country. If you have cash from your current home sale that will help

Something you might not have considered (depeding where your dh's work is) across the river in Jersey and Delaware are also very nice. And easy to get to Philly.

I liked Philly / South Jersey in my case (despite the heat) as DC & NYC were close by (thinking in US terms) and easily doable for a day (really). Fast train links are available from Philly. The Shore is close too with big sandy beaches. I used to ski in Western PA when I was growing up. The mountains are beautiful too. The State Parks always seem realively quiet.

thanks usaukmum for all the info about Philly. it sounds like there quite a bit to do with dd if & when we're in the area when she's older. just gotta wait now & see if dh can get a job over there soon... there's so much uncertainty when you're trying to move to another country - all these variables to consider...

If your husband is going to be working for the same company, the best way to find a good place to live is to ask where the other employees live. I used to love looking at all the houses for sale on the realtor.com site or even better new build houses which often have virtual tours! Its really hard to judge what the areas are like until you see them for yourself though.
Im afraid it will actually be quite a while before you actually get there so there is pleanty of time for all these things. Dh had a fairly straight forward transfer and that has taken over a year to organise. Your dh will need the company to apply for his permit to work in which they explain why he needs to be the person that does this job and why they want to bring him over. This takes around two months to come through although the company can pay extra to fast track it if they really want him but it still took five weeks. Once you have the permit to work you can apply for a non immigrant visa which involves some paperwork and an interview at the embassy. You need an appointment for every person moving, including small children! (Although they don't actually have to be there thank god). Your belongings can't leave until the shipping company has a copy of the visa so that is another delay. We are just so fed up of waiting now - I can't wait to go!!
Also to relpy to your question, we did get rid of quite a lot of stuff because it was cheeper to replace them than get the bigger container. All electrical items will need to be replaced or run with transformers (although computers and laptops usually have dual supply and can be easily changed over) so we decided not to bring any of those. Let me know if you need anything else!

Ditto about asking colleagues about where they live.

Don't pick a house on it being equivalent to what you have in the UK, or based on what you need, spacewise. The way US housing works (sadly) is that people live among those of similar socio-economic standing.

Hey dodgykeeper - I live about twenty minutes from Dayton, Ohio.

Hello there. I am from the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania. I now live in North Yorkshire with my British DH. The Lehigh Valley is about an hour north of Philly and a beautiful area as long as you stay away from Allentown. Lots of people commute from this area to Philly. There is also landsdale, norristown, etc etc. The main line outside of Philly is nice but very expensive, lots of old money there.

If you want I will give you my email addy and I can tell you about school districts, areas etc.

DH and I are going back in the spring. I wouldn't worry too much about money. I am going to support the five of us as a registered Nurse (about $65,000 a year) until DH retrains or goes back to school so he can get a good job there. We have a child with autism so one of us really needs to be at home or part time. Selling our UK house will allow us to buy a house outright there anyway.

It's pretty easy for me since I grew up in this very area and know the where the decent neighbourhoods and affordable houses are located.

If there is anything I can do to help let me know.