Checking German school years

[ricepolo]

Looks likely we’ll be heading to Bavaria at some point in the next few years and I’m trying to work out school year equivalents.

Am I right that the move to Gymnasium etc takes place at grade 5 (German), which is the equivalent to Year 6 here? So if we moved at the end of DD’s year 5, she’d then go into first year secondary there? Or am I a year out somehow?

It depends when her birthday is.

These days in Bavaria the equivalent of August 31st is September 30th - by which I mean that the youngest child currently in 4 Klasse should be born on 30 September 2009, the youngest child in 5 Klasse should be born on 30 September 2008, the youngest in 6 Klasse Born 30 September 2007 etc.

You do get "Kann Kinder Who are born October to December and can take extra readiness tests to start school early - in rural areas this is viewed as tantamount to child abuse but it's more common in urban areas.

You can also defer starting very easily if your child is summer (including September as the system here makes September borns the youngest) and in our rural Grundschule at least 1/3 if each class start a year late, usually purely through parental choice.

By 5 Klasse you will have more of a mix of ages as some kids don't get the grades for their/ their parents school type of choice so do 5 Klasse at mittleschule, get good grades and the next year do 5 Klasse again at Realschule. Less often Realschule kids do that and do 5 Klasse again at Gymnasium, or Gymnasium Kids do so badly in 5 Klasse they do 5 Klasse again at Realschule.

Bavaria ist different from pretty much every other state.

I live in Bavaria and have kids in 8 Klasse (Born 2005), 5 Klasse (Born 2007) and 2 Klasse (Born 2011) so feel free to ask other questions.

Oh I forgot to say yesterday - they move after 4 Klasse in Bavaria - 5 Klasse is the first year of secondary.

Their first day at secondary school the children in the class can be anywhere from 9 years 11 months (or 9 years 8 months for a theoretically possible December born Kann Kind) to about 11.5 years old for a child who's parents deferred entry and who then did a class twice (usually they will have done year 5 once already at another school type, however in extreme cases it is possible for a child to repeat a year of primary schoo).

To go to Gymnasium your child needs a grade 2 (with 1 being the best, 2 good, 3 satisfactory, 4 meets minimum requirements, 5 poor and 6 a fail necessitating repeating the year) in German (and maths) at the end of 4 klasse.

If you move without your child doing any Grundschule (primary school) they'll probably have to take placement tests to determine their level. If they're fluent in German this will be no problem, but if they don't speak German you'll need to do a lot of advance planning and research. You'll really want them to find somewhere with an inclusion programme and extra German help if they don't speak fluent German. Provision varies enormously, from absolutely none through something half arsed botched together, to very good in a few places.

It is possible to go to university without going to Gymnasium in the Bavarian school system, which most foreigners who think its Gymnasium or bust don't realise.

Brilliant thank you. Let me read and digest and will get back with any questions.

Thanks again

DD is our eldest and is a July 2010 baby, so would be currently 3. Klasse.

DH’s taking a new job which will need us to move out there at some point in the next four years.

DD doesn’t speak German, although she’d have tuition before she went to give her the basics but I’m presuming she’d have to attend an international school rather than a German-speaking one due to her age.

Do you know how it would work if we waited a few years before moving (ie moved when DD would go into 6. or 7. Klasse)? Is that a bad idea...? Do you have any views on when it’d be best to go?

I don't really know much about the international schools. Used to know people with kids at BIS and they do international baccalaureate, so utterly unconnected to the Bavarian/ German school system. I am 99% sure kids start there at age 4, like UK reception class, though I don't know what they call their school years. BIS goes right through to age 18. I don't know anything at all about the other international schools. BIS is incredibly expensive and mostly paid for by parents' employers where the posting is an expat contract, though I knew a family with an only child who paid themselves...

I'd say the earlier you move the better, if you were using German schools. Move now, ideally.

If you're going to use international schools none of this is remotely relevant. The language of instruction will be English and German will be taught as a foreign language. You'd want to talk to people with kids at those schools but moving in year 6 or 7 will almost certainly be fine and very common.

Don't worry about the local school system if you're going to use international schools. Is your move just for a few years or permanent?

Yeah I’ve seen the prices and they’re eye watering: we use private schools here but it’s another level..!

We’ve actually got four children, but I’m hopeful the younger two could use the German system if we moved sooner rather than later (they’re currently only 1 and 3 so I’d hope they’d be able to become fluent...). Probably too late for DD and our #2 (who’s 6...)? Maybe if these timings aren’t relevant for international schools then there’s not such a rush, other than the little ones’ language skills. Argh. So tricky.

Move is semi permanent. It’s for DH’s job but it’s a role/company he’s likely to stay in for a long time, assuming it all works out.

Currently really regretting not speaking German with them when they were little!!

I think if you moved now / before the start of the next school year and put the older children back a year (definitely possible and a non issue with a July birthday) all your kids could fit into the German school system and 2 years in Grundschule would give your oldest enough time.

We moved here when our eldest was under 2 and the others were born here, so I don't have direct experience of moving school age children. We live in the countryside outside Munich so as soon as we moved toddler dc1 was immersed in German at local Mama-Kind Gruppe, in the local playground etc and she was the first "foreign" child they'd had at her Kindergarten and luckily the staff in her group were not the types desperate to show of their school English so only spoke German to her, so she had an advantage of full immersion outside the house and was obviously very young. One amusing thing is that because DD was foreign most people automatically spoke high German to her instead of local dialect, even when she didn't speak much German, so at her school readiness interview the headmaster called me over and complimented me not on her bilingualism but on her fantastic intuitive ability to switch to perfect high German instead of dialect in a formal setting, which he said was a sign she'd do well

If you have reasons for delaying the move past late spring (I think school applications were finished at the end of May or early June, though don't rely on that exact date without looking it up) then I guess the longer you leave it, the harder it'll be for the older ones to use local schools.

Children who do a year or two of of kindergarten and who's parents ensure they are immersed in German outside Kindergarten (i.e. don't socialise exclusively with English speaking expats) always seem to be fine in the German system as far as I've seen. A 4 year old Bulgarian girl moved in down the road 3 years ago with no German at all, mum spoke no German, dad spoke basic German. She used to speak Bulgarian to my youngest in the playground and he'd started speaking it back by imitation! She was very shy initially and silent at kindergarten at first, but she did an extra year of kindergarten and started school at 7, so she's in my youngest's 2 Klasse now at 8, and now nobody would know she isn't German.

The problem with using international school for your eldest and then trying to put younger ones into local schools is that you fall between two stools - the international schools seem to swallow people and families up, and provide an all encompassing social life. It might be quite hard to avoid the pull of the expat, international school gravity and ensure your younger children are fully immersed in German friendships and relationships and language, which will make them "more foreign" when they start school - I used to know a family with kids born here, who used local kindergarten, but who were very much expats and their German born kids still needed German as a foreign language help and most definitely spoke German well but not as a native language, having to be overtly taught articles and agreements which native speakers and genuine bilingual children who learn through immersion just pick up.

It's a bit of a minefield, as I'm sure you know, which is why I'd move ASAP unless you need to stay in the UK longer for reasons unconnected with schooling.

Will you be planning to work in Munich? Long shot, but if you speak fluent French as well as German and happen to have a law degree or a scientific or engineering background you could get a job at the European Patent Office - their employees get free school places at the European School I believe. I think they usually have admin roles advertised if you're fluent in all 3 languages. I think its also a lot cheaper than BIS for private pupils and offers sibling reductions.

No idea whether its actually any good though!

An alternative to the international schools (which are usually really expensive) are bilingual schools. Ours works out at about 700 Euros per month, which is about what I paid for DS for nursery in the UK.
I've got children in my class, who arrive without any German. They catch up very quickly but I wouldn't put them into a grammar school right from the beginning. Their level of German needs to be high for that to work out.
I do think there's a bilingual state grammar school near us as well. No fees in that case. Might be worth investigating whether there's anything like that around your new area. I'm not in Bavaria.