Possibly moving to Hong Kong 2019

[Notaunicorn]

Dh has been offered a position in Hong Kong and has left the decision to me.

Looking for update advise from families that have recently moved there. DD has just turned 3 is currently at independent school nursery in London. Looking for advice on independent schools, areas to live ( we also have 2 darling small breed dogs that relocated with us when we moved from South Africa) so ideally we would need space for them as well and I know I might be pushing my luck to say we would like a small garden but gonna day it anyway🙈 I am also trying to conceive so another should be on the way shortly.

What is life like over there, cost of living, food- I don’t mind Asian food but would prefer a English food or atleast organic food options.

Any advice is most welcome !

The idea of warm weather and the sea is very inviting😀

I live in mainland China, but have been to hk many times. Food wise you can get everything - marks and spencer in central has a good selection of food, other smaller branches tend to have a small food area and there are m&s simply food shops. Taste supermarket chain has a good selection of imported products eg waitrose items and there is a fab supermarket on the basement level of Pacific place shopping centre at admiralty. I think the supermarkets are expensive, but have not lived in the UK for 23 years so am out of touch with prices.

Hi, I live in HK. Moved here 3 years ago with 2 kids.

Food wise, there is a lot of choice although some items are hard to find. You will find many UK staples at Fusion supermarkets (chain), and they stock brands including Waitrose, Casino (French) and many US brands. Of course prices are expensive, you would have to expect to pay a pretty hefty premium. Things such as fresh pasta are now a special treat. They also have organic produce, and meat from Australia, NZ and Canada.
Things I find hard to find outside of the fine supermarkets (Oliver’s, Citysuper): proper Parmesan cheese; meats such as duck, veal, venison; some spices and herbs eg harissa; spice packets eg oven bags for chicken; ready made sauces - the selection just isn’t as great. But I’ll be the first to admit these are all pretty niche items and it really has little impact on day to day life.
Most flats also have tiny kitchens, sometimes with no oven. If your DH is on a decent salary you can certainly find a place with an oven, but really lower your expectations on kitchen size. Most kitchens are also completely separate from the dining area. This is related to the fact that most middle class and up families have a live in helper (or several) who will do the cooking. The kitchen is seen as part of the ‘helper’s quarters’ part of a flat.

Dog wise, HKers love dogs and they are everywhere. You will struggle to find a place with a garden on HK island (unless willing to pay $175,000+ rent), but you might find a place with outside space (sometimes known as a ‘village house’) if you are prepared to live in outlying islands or new territories, eg Lantau, Saikung, Clearwater bay, Gold Coast (Tuen Mun) and I’m guessing some parts of Kowloon eg Kowloon Tong.

School wise, our kids moved from independent preps in London, and now attend one of the British curriculum schools here (Kellet, Harrow, Nord Anglia). We have found the standard of education to be quite a bit lower in the lower years, however this seems to change in the upper school as the school is getting very good A level results (on par with the schools they left in the UK) and placing lots of students in good universities. Getting school places can be tricky, and you should read up on the debentures system which puts school places outside of reach of most people. Get your kid’s name on waiting lists as soon as possible. Many preschools also go up to age 6 or 7, and there is no ‘reception’ year in the HK school system.

Some of the schools that have a good reputation include the German Swiss school, Singapore international, the EFS schools, and a couple of schools in DB (I forget the names).

Thank you for this. Once we have made a decision I will definitely be looking at making a trip out there to look at homes. I love the idea of living in SK or CWB - depending on the commute for DH to HK central.

Is it worth getting a car or not ? I drive everywhere in London and rarely rely on public transport.

Is English widely spoken?

I am very excited about this opportunity, but I honestly am scared of moving again and starting all over again in a new country.

Which areas would you say are good for families?

We recently moved back to the Uk from Singapore rather than moving to HK. Our budget just wasn’t high enough to have the quality of home we’d like to have, particularly in terms of space/ garden etc.

You’ll have no problems being English speaking or wanting western food though.

We don’t drive - also didn’t drive in London, so we’re used to public transport. Buses and MTR are very cheap and effective, and taxis and Uber are also convenient. But if you’re looking at village houses, public transport may not be a realistic option, so you may need a car depending on where you live. I also never see dogs on buses, not sure if they’re allowed?

We don’t speak Cantonese except for a few convenient phrases (our address, thank you/excuse me etc) and that isn’t a problem. If we are going somewhere that is out of the way, we’ll order an Uber as taxi drivers can be pretty useless outside of their comfort zone (no Knowledge Test in HK!).

We have friends in lots of different areas, it really depends on what you are looking for. Saikung /CWB is good for sailing and hiking, Pokfulam, Repulse and Ap Lei Chau are convenient for Central and offer a lot of space, sports clubs and nearby beaches, DB has a good community and is very safe for kids (no cars), TST/Elements is also good for young families and convenient for kindergartens, ice rink, shopping. We also have friends in Midlevels if you are looking for the full expat lifestyle and convenience to restaurants and nightlife.

Hong Kong is very small, you can get pretty much anywhere within about an hour (okay maybe not from Stanley to Mainland China ☺️). In all likelihood the place you live will be dictated by school places availability and what school bus routes are on offer, so I’d go with a flexible mindset and be prepared to organise around that.

Just one more thing - in a bid to alleviate traffic jams around schools at drop off and pick up, the HK government is forcing some indie schools to move towards mandatory school buses , so I’d bear that in mind if you think you’ll be driving your kid(s) to school. Our school doesn’t grant parents parking permits anymore, so from next year all new children have to take the school bus.

Thank for this wonderful information.

I will keep in mind the school being the deciding factor on where we live. I love that there are school buses so that will definitely help as I have read that traffic congestion is something we will face.

I am going to keep an open mind, nothing is set in stone yet so fingers crossed.

Is 70 000 a realistic amount for home rental there?

Thank you very much and Merry Christmas to you and your family!

70,000 will not get you a garden on HK island but probably would in Sai Kung or Clearwater bay, and maybe Disco Bay, especially if you'd compromise for a garden apartment as opposed to a house. If you live there (other than DB) you would want a car though (IMO), unless you live bang on the bus route or a main road.

Western food is available most places but it'll cost you. My grocery bill is insane. It is a very expensive place to live. The tax somewhat offsets it (rate of 15%) and quite generous allowances, but not entirely.

There are a lot of schooling options but availability of places can be an issue - pressure on British curriculum places is now nowhere as bad as it was though as Kellett expanded (new campus on Kowloon bay) and Harrow, Malvern and Nord Anglia opened too. My dc go to Kellett and I'm very happy with it- academics are solid and pastoral care is second to none- just a very lovely school. It wouldn't keep pace with a central London prep school, but that's not really its ethos- it's non-selective and reasonably inclusive re. SEN etc. Could also consider the ESF schools which teach IB although getting in is literally a lottery, and in addition, schools such as the French International and German Swiss do have English medium streams. Nearer term, most children aged 2:8 to 5 (or 6 in the local system) attend pre-school for 3 hours a day (either am or pm session). There are lots of options, all private, and ranging from total hot houses to totally hippy-dippy . However, there is very very little wraparound provision so be aware of that if you intend to work as you would basically have to get a domestic helper for childcare, unless you can afford to sponsor a nanny or find one here (there are a few on dependents visas etc. but most of them only want to work PT/ short term cover).

Personally I think school buses are ace and a real time saver, although once they start doing after school activities the return leg becomes less cost efficient.

Thank you, I will keep all of this in mind.

Can anyone comment about the pollution level?

London has a high level of pollution but it seems HK may be worse. Will dd be able to play outside- we do not like being indoors and absolutely love hot weather ( have previously lived in SA)

We lived in HK for 2 years and left last year. The air pollution was a real concern for us, I was pregnant when we moved there and my son was born at QMH. On the surface people, especially locals, seem very dismissive about the pollution but dig deeper and you’ll find that many have air filters in their homes. If you check the air quality index it will show you how bad it can be, even if the skies are beautifully clear and blue.

We coped by staying indoors on the worst days and limited outdoor activities in moderate days. We had three air purifiers running 24/7 in our apartment (Tefal brand from Fortress) and we’re able to keep our indoor air quality incredibly low. On the few really bad days it was lovely to come home into fresh air. We also had a dehumidifier in the bedroom to combat mold. There aren’t that many ultra bad days but most are moderately bad so you want to be sleeping in the freshest air possible.

If you end up in an apartment you’ll find that many of them have indoor playrooms which are a lifesaver on rainy or polluted days. The parks and play areas in HK are excellent and all over so you may find that a garden is an added expense you could do without.

The pollution is terrible and there’s no way around that. Tbh I don’t restrict mine or the kids movements. I may live to regret that one day but at the moment if I get time for a run I’ll go for one- ‘too polluted’ is just one more thing on top of too hot and too rainy.

Hot weather- it is hot but unfortunately it’s not like RSA. Summer is bastard humid and it rains a lot when it’s not hot. Ashamed to admit I’m one of those who ships out for July and first half of August. Basically, with the exception of Oct- Dec, don’t move here for the weather.

Look at Disco Bay (discovery bay.) Your husband would have to commute to HK Island by boat (passing Disneyland each day to catch the fireworks at night.) There’s a small international school, a beach, a few nice restaurants & shops. The dogs would be happy.

Check the political climate right now. My company is about to close its HK office. It seems the Chinese government is becoming less welcoming to non Chinese companies in HK, with income tax for non Chinese nationals going up from next month and other tighter regs. Feels like they've grown bored of tolerating the leftovers of the UK era and want to remind everyone that HK is Chinese now.

Following with interest and thank you all for your helpful comments! I've been to HK many times but now looking at living there which is a different perspective. Eek!

imagibary can you cite a reference for tax rate increases as first I’ve heard of it and I’d be surprised if this hadn’t been a huge deal tbh.

No doubt HK is becoming more Chinese, as we approach the 2047 deadline, but I’m just not aware of this tax thing.

Or do you mean corporate tax??

www.china-briefing.com/news/new-laws-china-business-2019/
First paragraph about income tax getting tougher for foreign nationals from 1st Jan.

Hong Kong is fiscally independent of China so at the present time, this doesn't impact people resident in HK. China and Hk will become fiscally united in 2047 but for that to happen before then would be a big deal.

Also, from what I can see, if you're genuinely resident in China, it's not a problem. It cuts the residency period from 1 year to 180 days per year, which is still v generous compared to (eg UK 90 days). However, China's tax rates are such that its still likely for a foreigner to be considered resident vs non-resident (unless they're from somewhere with insanely low or non -existent personal taxation, such as Dubai).

HK is way more strict anyway. If you have a HKID you are considered resident and need to pay HK taxes. If you don't have a HKID its basically impossible to live in HK as need it to register kids for school etc.