Is the Bay Area worth living in for a few years?

[DieAntword]

Husband is looking at changing jobs. He’s in tech so when I suggested he don’t just look at the UK lots of stuff in the Bay Area obviously came up.

Costs of living there are pretty bad but we think he could get enough pay to manage at least looking at job titles equivalent to his current one (and ceirtainly wouldn’t relocate if he wouldn’t).

What’s it like living there though? What things is it important to consider moving there from the UK?

Ultimately I don’t think I’d like to live there forever just a couple of years maybe and then either come back to the UK or try somewhere else (I really like the idea of doing two year stints in various countries, exposing the kids to a bunch of different cultures and seeing the world). Does that change anything about how we should approach things? We’ve never tried living abroad before.

Do you mean San Francisco Bay Area?

Yeah. I read a lot of negative stuff but it can’t be that bad right? Someone he knows just got a job with Apple (and will be going out there in about a year iirc) so he’s thinking about it too.

It would be a massive change for us but I kind of like the idea of a massive change because I’m a bit bored of where we are now (which were only in because job anyway).

Housing is a massive issue in the Bay Area. Very expensive and there not a lot of it. Maybe do some research into what it will take to live there. Has he also considered other places in the USA or even other countries? What field of tech is he in?

I did some looking into it, it’s hard to understand how much tax you end up paying but I figure we could maintain the same lifestyle we have now or a bit better with $120k pa base salary. I don’t think we’d consider going for less. I know that sounds like loads or maybe doesn’t I dunno depends where you’re coming from I guess - to us it does - but coworkers of his have got equivalent or better compensation transferring (plus RSUs on top) to the states so I don’t think it’s necessarily unreasonable. Obviously it’s all just hypothetical at the moment.

Don’t want to get too specific about his work though.

The other day on the news they were saying that a family of 4 with a household income of $120,000 was considered low income in SF. It's super expensive.

He would need to find an employer willing to sponsor him for a visa which are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain. If he came on an H1B visa you would be unable to work. The earliest he would be out here would be October 2019.

Just read your post about transferring. If he transfers with his current company then he would get an L1 visa. This is a faster process and would allow you to work too. A major expense you have to budget for is healthcare. Even with good insurance you have to pay out a lot in co pays and deductibles.

How old are your kids, if you have any?

I work for a Bay area company, and a close co-worker lives there (most people don't as housing is so very, very expensive). Her tiny 3 bed bungalow which is 60's prefab would be about $1.2M - but its the cost of everything that is eyewatering. Getting her minute kitchen refurbished is coming in at $80k even with doing a lot themselves (and took a year to get a builder). Childcare for just after school is $1500 a month and just everything is expensive.
Its also very pressured for kids and they have a huge preteen and teen suicide problem in the bay.
Traffic is awful too. Like really, really awful

I don't live there but recently visited. My friends who do live there spent over $1m to buy a small 3-bed house. So rents are also going to be very high. Let's say $5k a month including property tax and maybe insurance.

Health insurance - unless your company subsidises very very heavily you're going to be looking at a cost of $5k to $20k per year in premiums for a family (we pay $15k right now).

On top of that you'll have your out of pocket costs - I'd allow about $3-6k a year unless you have a great policy or are never ever sick.

You can probably lease a car for about $300 a month, then insurance and tax another $100 a month. You'll probably want a car each.

How old are your kids? You'll probably either have daycare costs, or if they're at school then remember summer holidays are 11-12 weeks so you may need childcare for the summer. I used to allow about $7-8k for 3 kids for my summer childcare cost.

Food, bills (elec and gas etc tend to be more here for some reason), internet will be about $60 a month, cable (if you want it) $120+ a month. Cellphones probably $100 a month for your first line, then $40 for your second.

Add that up, add on the cost of your taxes (potentially FICA, federal, state, city - Cali is a high tax state), private pension, life insurance, disability insurance. Then having some fun, travel, skiing, all the things you actually want to do while you're in the Bay Area.

There's your cost of living which should help you work out if $120k is enough - I would guess absolutely not.

And yes, the traffic is AWFUL.

OTOH a Google engineer new grad starts on $112k apparently. Set your sights high!

Visas are a fricking nightmare. My own (tech) company has had two failed attempts at sponsored visas (and that was using specialist visa lawyers).

We have a corporate apartment there too, but it is pretty grim for the massive cost and miles from anywhere.

Tbh I think it's completely overrated and very divided - techy bright young things side all drinking their wheatgrass smoothies and driving teslas; the other long term residents who are operating in a different gear entirely.

We are seeing a lot of tech growth in Chicago and also New York, if they are an option? Depends on your exact field though.

$120000 a year isn’t a lot, especially in San Fran. Do you have kids?

I agree that 120k is really not a lot for the Bay Area, especially if you have children and plan on living close to actual SF.

Considering you have children according to your OP it's likely that you would have to live quite a commutable time from your husband's work and traffic can be quite daunting in the Bay Area.

If you plan on moving you need to make sure you have the best package possible because no matter how much you'll earn even if your husband double his salary here, it's likely it won't feel like it at all once here and you will find you have to count your pennies much more than in the UK, unfortunately.

Once you know where he is likely to end up working you will be able to look at safe and commutable areas to live in. Someone I know works at Google and reside in Palo Alto but if you are expecting a salary of 120k for the type of work your husband do it probably won't be within your budget, Redwood City is apparently quite pleasant as are San Jose and San Mateo both located in the south of SF and Oakland and Berkeley in the East can be nice/close alternative to SF and slightly cheaper (though not much) than the City but located further away to the Sillicon Valley than the former cities.

You are going to have to write down everything that's of Capital importance to you (Good schools? Close to the City? Nicer weather? Number of rooms etc...) and calculate how much you would need to earn to make it happen.

I personally wouldn't advise the Bay Area for a first move abroad unless you are guaranteed to have a much better lifestyle than the one you currently have or unless it will open doors for you/your husband career-wise meaning it's worth the stress of probably living a bit modestly for a few years.

I am moving to the East side of the Bay Area in a few days and it's only because financially my work will cover all of my expenses as well as my health insurance meaning I will be better off financially (hopefully) otherwise I probably wouldn't bother.

I guess the main reason we thought about there rather than anywhere else is honestly he is a total Apple fanboy and wants to work for Apple and now this guy who has got a job with Apple is selling him on how amazing it is working there (he’s not been with Apple long enough to actually get transferred out there but is spending a lot of time on campus anyway).

Our current lifestyle is pretty basic. I guess what I want to understand is are the warnings of doom from people who honestly have higher expectations than us or is it genuinely not worth it.

To me it seems like the higher cost of living makes it perversely possible to save more, if you are earning 2000 after tax and half goes on rent you have 1000 left to live on and save from. If you’re taking home 7000 after tax and 60% goes on rent you have 2800 for everything else.

I don’t care about schools or anything, kids are too young. Honestly envisioning a 2 year stint I don’t really think I’d mind a lot of things I would worry about more long term. Things I think I’d miss are - currently we live on ex mod land that was well planned, lots of green space, big windows and a garden to look out on, playground at the bottom of the road, lots of trees - and only a 3hr drive between us and the grandparents.

I’m imagining if I was out there I’d be renting somewhere like San Jose or Santa Clara or somewhere and be in a much more urban environment than I’m used to but not quite what I’d think of as a city either.

Things that scare me are crime and guns. That’s what really worries me. That and trump.

If husband left his current job he’d have 2 years to come back so if he hated it as long as we kept a lump sum around for a rental deposit and flights we’d be ok hightailing it home.

And I don’t want him to undersell himself either. At the moment he’s a lead developer in a r&d role, the project he is currently part of is about to be rolled out nationwide and is getting an award for most successful roll out ever in the company. I honestly think he is severely underpaid now and could easily undersell himself elsewhere because he has a major case of imposter syndrome. He says of other people he works with “oh but he’s one of the best in the world” etc and it’s like... well you’re working with them, they’re not trying to fire you... maybe you do belong with these people.

Some posters here haven't got a foggy. 120k would be a very low salary if he's educated and middle management if some description. He's more likely to be looking at 180k and health care is provided through work and heavily subsidised. We paid 250 a month for a family of four on the highest level package and it comes out pretax. Renters don't pay property tax, the landlord does.

I would go in a heartbeat but prepared for one or both of you to not want to come back. From my experience almost all the British expats who came stayed if they could. Why not give it a go while your kids are young? You can see a completely different part of the world and there's some really amazing places near there.

Yeah I think it would be an experience worth having if we could manage. I just need to convince him he can do it now. He was working on his cv last night and getting very dejected. He just needs to ignore the voices in his head telling him he’s not good enough or if he’s not perfect there’s no hope. He’s good technically and much better at the people skills side of it than a lot of the people he works with. All the people he’s mentored have done really well. He’s got to believe in himself.

The guy who went to Apple was telling him to go for it so obviously he thinks it’s worth a shot and not some kind of pipe dream.

I don't personally think I have higher expectations than you, OP but the fact that you suggested 120k could be seen as high suggested that you weren't really aware of the housing market and cost of life in the Bay area and I think that's what prompted the answers.

Considering you have kids, and depending on how many you have you are probably going to need to rent out a 2 bedroom/1 bathroom appartment which would cost at the very least 2500$ in San Jose and closer to 2800$ in Santa Clara or a 3bedroom/1bathroom for at least 2800$ in San Jose or 3200$ in Santa Clara (to which you have to had bills and utilities), then there is the cost of running probably two cars (as public transportation isn't as efficient in San Jose as it is in SF)
Which amount to probably about 750$ a month per car, then you have to add food, clothes, entertainment. And if your husband job doesn't cover your health insurance then you also have to add about 1000$ a month for basic health insurance (for a family of 4) or about 4500$/month for an insurance that cover both dental care and potential pregnancies.

So while of course it's doable and people do, do it, I personally wouldn't move to the bay area for a salary of 120k/year if you have several kids as the cost of life IS expensive. So if you do make the move, make sure your husband doesn't undersell himself and actually gets the best package for your family, as the less you can afford to spend the less choice you have got regarding housing/areas and since safety is paramount, it's important you can afford enough to be able to avoid the poorer/less recommendable areas of the Bay.

Hope it works out for you OP, and here is a link to give you an idea of the current cost of living in San Jose in case it gives you an idea of how much you will need to fork out monthly for your specific family!

www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/San-Jose

Also bear in mind children’s activities here are often a lot more expensive than in the UK, even for very small kids. And a babysitter will be $15-20ph minimum. Where I live, even a High School kid is $15 an hour. And you’ll definitely need two cars.

I’d agree with PP’s that $120k just seems very low pay, unless the company are paying your rent on top of that.

Also, re guns. I live on the East Coast, not the west. I did used to call ahead of play dates to ensure there was no gun at their home which was weird when we first lived here. But on a day to day basis, despite hearing about gun violence every single day, I’ve never actually seen any.

You'll be completely skint trying to live on $120k per year in San Francisco. The Google engineers who start at $112k are living with their parents, in a house share or renting someone's garage to sleep in. CA also has high state income taxes.

The only way to deal with the cost of housing is to move way out of the city, then you have a hellish commute.

He's more likely to be looking at 180k and health care is provided through work and heavily subsidised. We paid 250 a month for a family of four on the highest level package and it comes out pretax

That's an amazing health insurance deal - when was that?

I know we would never even consider it if there was no employer health insurance, which I don’t think would be an issue if he got a job with Apple.

I do agree he shouldn’t undersell himself though. It was ceirtainly interesting to hear at his level he should be looking for quite a bit more than that.

I work for a company based in the Bay Area and visited few times, $120k will leave you struggling (arrogant as that sounds).
So I basically agree with everyone else above, also regarding his potential salary.
I'm non-tech and would be able to get $120k there (have toyed with the idea for a while) so he must be able to get much more than that.

@Stupomax it was five years ago. I worked for a big company and that seems to help.

I do understand the concerns about gun violence but I lived in the US for most of my life and I can't say I even know anyone personally who had witnessed gun violence. It does tend to be concentrated in certain states/areas. The upside is the police DO actually come when you call even if it's for a noisy neighbor. To be honest I've felt far less safe in London. In the US we never even locked our doors. My British husband thought that was insane. 😬