On the importance of having friends and feeling at home

[moumoute]

Every 6 months or so I come and post on Mumsnet. I still live in Sweden, it's DHs homeland, it was my idea, it's been 4 years. I still don't speak the language properly - huge lack of motivation due to the fact that I'm not interested in the local culture and people are IMO not exciting. They aren't interested in having new friends anyway. We are better apart I guess! I have made 1 friend who is a foreigner. I still believe that DH and I would be happier if we would move back to the UK where we both have our best friends, where there is culture, where we can both be fluent. But, I am brainwashed and I believe that everywhere but Scandinavia is dangerous and poorly organised. Luckily we had friends coming this month and we had a good laugh. Did I just underestimated how hard it is to live abroad...? Living in London wasn't really living abroad for me as a French person I felt at home.
My question is: How is it important to have friends and feel at home where you live?
Hello to everyone who have read my previous rants

I live in Germany my dps homeland. Here for 3 years. Still learning the language and I find it difficult. I cope by being able to go to my flat in London for a week every 4 months as I miss my friends from the UK. Have a few friends here too. Mainly other parents.

It's really important. I'm familiar with Sweden, find that they're (in fact "we're") difficult and sometimes not particularly exciting as you say. It could also be an age thing, if you're over 30 it's massively more difficult to find new friends. The trick, I believe, is to look for the right sub-culture where you can find a cultural fit. C'est probablement plus façile si vous pouvez comprendre la langue un peux... Anyway, why not post one entry (in Swedish & English ) about being a French person looking for explicitly French- or English-speaking friends in the (probably?)
Stockholm area to the Facebook group "Ensamma Vänner-ej en dejtinggrupp (endast för människor boende i norden)" ?

Suppose it depends on you. I don't really like people so I'm fine living in country where I don't have friends and don't speak the language. Makes small talk less likely to happen.

Having a good laugh is the most important thing in life imo. That's why having a few friends is important to me. DH says that we aren't at school so it's hard to make friends. I don't think that's the problem. Most neighbours are our age, family members, colleagues. Problem is that people are not interested in new people and new things. They stick to their routine, childhood friends, country house on the same island, same same same. And immigrants tend to become like that too as they follow the trend at some point...
I'm not the most outgoing person but I feel like I am losing social skills because of the lack of interaction.

Is it a reason to move away though...that's the question. If I can cope with the harsh winter, high taxes and boredom maybe I can cope with the lack of interaction and humour at some point. Stockholm is a great place for kids and I should be careful with my decision on pushing for the ultimate move. The odd part is that if I push to move to France or move back to the UK i have the feeling that we will go to "dangerous" countries!!

France is not a "dangerous country", surely? Anyway, why don't you socialise with French expats? At almost all my workplaces there's been at least one French expat, though they have all spoken the local language quite fluently, to the point you didn't think about them being from somewhere else. One problem is that you seem to look down on the locals, at the same time require them to be interested in you ("they are not interested in new people and new things"). It's not my experience that people are like that, though admittedly a lot of people have cabins out in the woods or by the seaside. Anyway, why not start by checking out this page and its activities? www.institutfrancais-suede.com/

I can totally relate to how you feel. I lived in Australia for two years with my boyfriend who's English (like me) but had been in Australia for 20 years. I really struggled with not having friends, not finding common ground with people and not having fun. All the newly arrived Brits were 20 years younger than me and most people my age (40 something) had kids. My boyfriend's friends only ever talked about sport.

I got really miserable and homesick and just felt like a non-person with little meaningful interaction many days. I made small talk so much I just couldn't be arsed after a while.

Now I'm back in London (for good) and it's bloody amazing. I have friends, family, fun, a social life. I couldn't cope with no friends in the sun so I feel for you in a much colder country.

@writergirl747474 thanks for your message. It's nice to hear from someone who went through this. I feel like a slow person when I go to London now. Well I don't go atm because I have a baby. you seem so happy to be back that I'm not even gonna ask about the downsides...I was the one who asked to leave London! I will always miss the Londoners.

@387I2
I didn't look down on locals when I arrived..I didn't notice the introvert tendency when I visited the country...I feel like it's an imposture to live in a country and avoid the locals, even though I am already kind of doing it. But a lifetime like that? Hanging out with foreigners only, because they feel exclude...its weird. Most foreigners I meet complain about swedes. Thanks for the Institut Français tip anyway. I know about them, even personally, I'd stay away as much as possible!

I'm sorry to hear you are having such difficulties, since you seem to be quite set on staying in a country where you've decided not to learn the language and not to socialise with locals (as they are dull or boring) and at the same time find it weird to socialise with other foreigners only like a true expat. I imagine you will probably look forward to a lifetime of bitter isolation and solitude, but nobody will care much. Why don't you move back to London? Or Paris? Surely your partner can't be so set in his ways as not to see trouble is looming if you stay? Also, it seems a bit odd you never mention going back to France, but rather want to be an expat in another country (in London). It's not for nothing there's a saying "home sweet home"; www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=mKJV0kw9NYg

I am very sorry that you are missing your friends and do not feel 'at home' where you are living. There are two things that jump out at my, from your post. I have hesitated to post them, because I do not think it will be what you want to hear. I came back to this post incase it may in the longer term be useful for you, s9 here goes.

Firstly, a new baby is a big lifestyle change. It is very easy to confuse the changes in your lifestyle associated with a new stage in your life, with just being in another country. You will possibly have much more in common with new parents where you live now, and across the world, than with young, carefree people out 'on the town' in London (or any other place). For your own peace of mind, avoid using geography to explain how you are feeling. There are loads of sad, lonely people in London, and elsewhere. Isolation, loneliness, its a big part of the modern world for lots of people even if they have not moved countries

Secondly, while It is not easy for you, anyone who does not speak the language, and is not already in the process of learning the language, is not giving themselves a fair chance at feeling at home in a culture. I have lived in a (different) European country and can speak the language well enough to not be outed as a 'foreigner'. The kind of conversations i have with people who do not know my background are much more authentic, and hence interesting, than those I have with other people. You might like to give it a try, with the aim of talking to people without their having any idea of your differences, find the finds you have in common.

Once you have an extra-country relationship, the complication of where to live will always be there. Your best chance of happiness is to give it as little headspace as possible and avoid glamourising any other place.

All the best.

Great post. Very emphatic and so useful.

I sympathise with you. Sometimes you move to a place and however right the reasons are on paper, the place just never feels like home and the people don;t seem to welcome you.

It would be so much easier for you if you spoke the language fluently. You'd then be able to make friends more quickly if you did come across people you like.

meanwhile, are there things you do that you enjoy? If you regulalry do a couple of sociable sports and go to a class to learn something you love or volunteer in a cause you care about then you'll meet like minded people. Or teach English or French locally - you might meet people as keen as you are to get away!

I think @finallyhere is spot on...it's a massive shift having a baby, and having once been very much 'in the system' of a city as a worker, you can feel like an outsider as a new mum without family around. It is extra hard if you don't feel welcome in a culture, and natural to feel homesick.

Long term, I think you need to ask yourself if the material things you enjoy (safety, prosperity) matter enough to overcome the emotional issues you're feeling. Some people are much better at being pragmatic, others need to go where there heart leads. Either way you need to be 100% honest with your partner - sounds like he may not realise how much these things are on your mind (again, natural when you're the one at home and he's gone back to 'old life' at work)

In the short term, join some clubs. Book clubs, music clubs, exercise clubs - they are out there, even if you need to hunt! A group with a shared interest will help you socialise (without dreaded 'small talk') and into more of a routine. You could find awesome people beyond the expat bubble.

I've been in your situation and I empathise. Hope you get a resolution soon.

I'm really sad to hear you're feeling this way, I'm not sure I have any useful advice but I do agree with what finallyhere said, however it is quite difficult in practice!
I'm also in Australia, I've been here for four months and I love everything but I miss friends so so so much I completely get how hard it must be. I've met so many people and even strangers are friendly, but when you think about the years it took to build your friendships at home it can't just be recreated. I also find I don't have a lot in common with most people here, and I haven't met many people I would crave to spend time with as pleasant as they are. Agree with a PP as I'm 31 so the age is difficult as everyone is young travellers or school mums and DH and I don't have kids together.
I totally get where you are coming from and I guess it's just deciding whether to uproot your family for your eventual happiness. What does your DH think?