Moving to Spain as Brexit kicks off?

[BumpkinPie]

Short back story. We currently live in the UK, my husband owns a business which supports us and I'm a SAHM with three preschoolers. We have sufficient equity in our house to buy a considerably better one over there at current prices (nothing fancy but big enough for the family, which this one isn't). My MIL lives in a very ex-pat area on the Spanish coast which isn't my ideal but is nice enough as a stepping stone to living in the country. We're considering the move over there to be closer to her as she's getting older and showing no inclination to move back here, and she misses her grandkids.

We've both discussed moving abroad in a theoretical way over the years as part of 'the dream', I'm happy enough to up sticks and the kids are of an age I feel it would be easy enough to move them/pick up a language. My only real hesitation really is that my parents live here and also dote on our kids and currently see them at least once a week. Travel for them is difficult as my dad isn't in the best of health. However I do have a sibling who lives in the UK (other sibling also abroad) who doesn't live nearby but could be counted on in an emergency.

Really just looking for any and all input and opinions from those with experience of moving/living in Spain. My main practical concerns are financial (tax implications of different income/residential countries) and of course the looming shadow of Brexit. Any helpful links would be wonderful as Google seems to be a minefield of contradictory info! I'm not looking for a bashing on the decision to move, but constructive help would be very gratefully received. Thanks!

Will you be allowed to move to Spain? I would have thought Brexit changes all that.

People have always been able to live in Europe before the EU
if they have good jobs/business. What was not possible before was the flood of low wage workers that has reduced wages for locals, plus the beggars that seem to be allowed in the UK

Will your husband be able to continue his business remotely? Also, property is much cheaper in Spain (ok maybe not so much if you move to Madrid or Barcelona), so if things don't work out and you decide to move back say in five or six years, do you think you will be able to?

Oh, careful, that is now going to be a whole lot harder than you think.

Can you say where you are locating to? I live near Valencia in an ex pat area and DD goes to private school or else she would be taught 100% Valenciano. My DH is Spanish and speaks Castellano, so that's what we wanted her to learn, as that is what most of the world speaks.

Getting a bank, residencia, NIE number, (which you need to do ANYTHING), rights to healthcare are nigh on impossible now. You have to have paid tax here. Worked here, or be Spanish. The healthcare especially (which is second to none) but very difficult to get.

Depending on where you go, re selling your home could be impossible, whatever you do, rent first. Very cheap and much more rights than in the UK. Am worried about schools more though.

Been here 15 years and it is hard for me still with a Spanish DD and DH.

Be wary. 'Brits abroad' have a stigma which I am continually fighting. You will get that too.
Sorry to be so depressing

Also, I know lots of expats who are in denial, things will get worse fr them after Brexit. No EU health card... all those 70 year olds with health problems are in trouble

Oh yes, if you get a job here and pay tax, of course you can live here. But there are no jobs.

Madrid is more expensive than London, I lived there for 3 years.

Another thing, sorry, it's just I'm having another 'why did I come here?' moment right now! Do you speak Spanish? You need to to integrate. Don't worry though about pre schoolers picking it up, under 5, they will speak like a native in a few months.

School here starts at 3

Ask me anything you want to know!

Thanks dan. I'm not expecting it to be plain sailing so need a healthy dose of realism. We would be moving somewhere close to Torrevieja, give or take half an hour. School-wise I was intending that they would go to the local school. I'm aware we would have a Brit Abroad stigma but to be honest I'm not one to particularly care what people think of me and we'd definitely do our best to integrate and not live in a bubble (unlike MIL who has been there 12 years and doesn't speak Spanish).. We would of course rent to begin with as I'd want to know the area better. I guess the property market is a gamble we'd have to live with if we bought - even if we took a hit we should still be able to afford to buy again in the UK, albeit in a different area or downsized.

Atrocity yes, we would have to bring in a manager but theoretically there's no reason his business wouldn't be able to continue to support us. I think that if resident in Spain we would pay tax on his income in Spain (but this is what I'm not sure of!) so would that cover the issues dan raised re NIE etc?

Cross post! dan I don't speak Spanish but I do speak French and am fairly sure I can pick it up to a reasonable standard pretty quickly. DH may struggle a bit more but is adamant he would learn ASAP.

that if resident in Spain we would pay tax on his income in Spain (but this is what I'm not sure of!)
This could be a minefield. If his business is still going to be a UK based one and If his ‘income’ is made, and paid to him, in Sterling in the UK you will of course still have to pay UK income tax. There is a reciprocal tax agreement with Spain but you presumably won’t be a ‘tax resident’ if your business remains in the UK. You will be liable to pay Spanish tax on foreign assets too like savings, property, shares and life insurance. Presumably if you are not tax residents there will be a lot of things in Spain you are not going to be entitled to. Basically, living in one country and having your business in another could be messy and expensive.

Hi again op. Ok, Torrevieja is TOTALLY ex pat I mean HUGE! You won't have the regional Spanish issues in school though which is great. Children will go to a local school fine. Most will probably be a certain type of British though. I don't think it's what you are after, as a young family. Fine to visit, not to live.

However, I don't mean to sound horrid, it is not a nice area and is known as torrerobbery or something, all the thieves in Spain reside there (according to local gossip) you won't want to stay there long, so DO rent.

I would highly recommend Denia to you. It is further along the coast but not much, still Castellano, quite a few lovely Germans, English too, but much more upmarket and cosmopolitan with good local school, a very good private International school too. Property is much more expensive than Denia though, with good reason.

It also has a regular ferry to Ibiza etc. It's beautiful, lovely coast.

As you speak French, this is good, most Spanish speak French. I spoke French for my first few years here.

For the NIE I know you have to prove you have 15,000 euros in the bank and regular employment if you are not Spanish/married to a Spaniard, it all gets easier after that. That is the biggie. Before you get that you have to be empadrinando at the local town hall, proving you have a rented address where you reside. That is relatively easy. You will need an electricity bill or similar and your rental agreement and passports etc. Getting an electricity bill is going to be tricky without the NIE but you can do it! It's a crazy catch 22.

You have to reach into the depths of your inner patience at all times, unfortunately, you are going to have to hire a 'rip off Britain' translator' (will be loads in Torrevieja) to start with. Negotiate EVERYTHING! They are usually 20 euros an hour.

I believe your husband, if bringing English money monthly, into Spain (you'll have to prove this), will be largely exempt from paying tax until he hits 20,000, then he will, you'll get healthcare eventually. But, be prepared for that battle, as it is a battle.

Spain right now, as opposed to when I moved her 15 years ago, is very suspicious and totally cracking down on health tourism and families moving here from abroad, taking up resources.

Lastly, buy an apartment, not a house with garden, (eventually after you RENT first) Secure and safe and the way it is out here.

Not going to tell you about my robberies when I first got here. Live in a flat now!

Sorry OP, meant Denia is much more expensive than Torrevieja!

In Denia, you will eventually maybe find work yourself.

It's where I would have liked to have been really. I live in Gandia. Very nice, very traditional. It will help that you have small children, Spanish admire that, it might get you quite far!

Good luck OP

PS Very good bilingual lawyers in Denia, it might be an idea to have a look and speak to one about the tax. Certainly, when I arrived, I could earn 20,000 tax free IF I was bringing sterling, monthly, into the country. I think it was 1,000 pounds back then.

I think it could have changed (not checking)!! Not opening that box of whole other beurocracy problems right now!!! My bank seems happy so I'll leave it at that.

Thanks Dan, really appreciate the input! As I said, the area is really not where I want to end up but I do see it as a stepping stone. Will certainly look into Denia, thanks for the recommendation! (MIL doesn't actually live in Torrevieja but nearby, just named it as the nearest biggish town. She's in Quesada). I'm prepared to jump through hoops etc as part of the process, luckily I'm relatively patient and prepared to keep chipping away.

Judas this is what I'm afraid of! It's just very difficult to find a straight answer re: what we would need to pay where. I suspect I'll have to speak to a specialist accountant/lawyer at some point, just trying to get a feel for the lie of the land at the moment.

The money does have to be deposited in you Spanish bank, not UK. You will no longer be paying UK tax if you live her and get paid into a bank here.

I have NO ties with the UK though, I am Spanish now basically,, getting my passport soon!

Re work, I have a (lapsed) qualification in healthcare and am also a personal trainer (ha, I know - dime a dozen over there!) DH would eventually be looking to complicate matters further by adding a part of the business to be run from Spain which would require my working with him, I don't know how realistic that part of the plan is though.

dan just had a very quick squizz at property in Denia - still just about affordable, it's just a question of whether we'd want to be so far from MIL as it's a bit of a trek and negates the purpose of moving somewhat. It looks lovely though, far closer to the idyll!

@danTDM I'm very interested in your experiences, as my dd intends to live in Spain someday. I have no idea how she will go about it - she is only 15 and I had a vague notion of her going to university there or something as a way in. We have Spanish friends who might be of help as well but obviously won't know how to get her settled with the law etc. Dd is fluent and wants to work in translation. Any good websites we can research?

Do look at Denia, it's totally Spanish but also enough of a 'cosmopolitan' vibe to keep you a bit sane in the first few years (apart from when they run bulls into the sea) a bit scary!

For example, there is even an Iceland with WAITROSE products (don't laugh, sometimes you'll want a crumpet or muffin!) It's my birthday treat once a year to stock up on a few things, like Marmite.! New potatoes. Things like that I can't get where I live.

That may give the wrong impression of Denia, it's not 'Brits abroad' at all, just for some reason they have an Iceland!!! Bizarre!

Sounds like you have the right attitude OP. Maybe we'll meet for coffee at the port one day!

athing Sorry, I have no idea, DD is 10 and wants to go to England after uni to do a potential masters so, although I can get her a passport, I am in the same boat as you.

All I would say is it is far, far easier to come here as a foreign student, I imagine they'll be doing student visas soon after Brexit. They want UK money! She won't have any problems. She has no dependants and someone to help set her up.

Universities are cheap as chips here compared to the UK. My HUGE modern 3 bed flat with terrace, far larger than any house, is 400 euros a month and that is considered pricey! A student would pay hardly anything. I would decide on what uni she wants to go to. Look at there 'foregin' student website page.

She would make good money as a translator. Plenty of work.

The problems I am talking about involve families with dependants moving to Spain, not students bringing economy to the country. I think she would be welcomed with opened arms and could straight away, in a second, get work in an academy teaching English. So the healthcard (SIP) would never be an issue.

I had to give up my Academy work for DD, the school run/homework and dinner time! You DD wouldn't have this problem! Lessons are usually 6/8pm or even 10pm for business men/women you see. All after school!

That information gives us a great starting point, thank you!

Sorry, my spell check has a mind of it's own today. I'm an English teacher, honest!

You're welcome!

Valencia is a lovely city, lovely size, loads of work, Academies galore, some will rip you off a bit but sort you out/put you up/make you legal as part of the deal, loads of culture, ancient and respected uni. Great access to airport, opera, beach, lovely weather, very cheap. It's where DD is going! (Hopefully)

Better than Madrid btw!

The money does have to be deposited in you Spanish bank, not UK. You will no longer be paying UK tax if you live her and get paid into a bank here.
It’s not where the money is paid that is relevant, the OPs business is to remain in the UK, if I’ve understood correctly? I can’t see how HMRC will agree that the OPs DH fits non resident tax status. He might live overseas but he doesn’t work overseas. Also OP, will he never need to come back to the UK for business? Because he can’t work here for more than 31 days in a tax year (as I said though I don’t think HMRC are going to agree that he ‘works’ overseas anyway). Here’s a link to the Statutory Resident Test. It’s complicated, we recently had to be very careful sorting our tax affairs out, and be careful when we came back to the UK after living in Singapore for a few years to ensure we weren’t liable for tax in both countries. You can only return to the UK for 91 days which if eg a family member is ill, you want a holiday here, problems sorting out the business etc can disappear surprisingly quickly. If you want to go ahead it really is worth paying good money for the best tax advice you can afford because it’s so complicated.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547118/160803_RDR3_August2016_v2_0final_078500.pdf

OP, my experiences are different. I live in Elche, I have NIE, access to free Spanish healthcare, residency, on the patron etc. I certainly didn't have to have €15,000 in savings. I work as an English teacher, the jobs are very easy to come by and you get all your paperwork sorted no problem with your employment contract. It was all very simple, but quite bureaucratic (that's spain!!)

Do a decent TEFL course before you come and apply for jobs before you get here.

I would rethink the area you are planning to live. It isn't a nice area at all.

*padron

expat you definitely have to have funds in your bank. For sure, it's all changed. You had a job here, so different.

I have said, I have cut all ties with the UK, we came from Canada anyway, but DH is Spanish. We were told by Santander, at the time, that is all UK money (more than 1,000) a month, was paid into the Spanish account, we were fine.

It would be best to check with lawyer now though in OP's DH's position, if they intend to keep the business set up in UK, they would have to pay tax there obvs!

expat do you have dependents?