Which would you choose and why?... Auckland, Sydney or Melbourne

[Ohladedah]

I'm a NZer as have been in the UK for 14 years, my partner is English and we've decided that we're moving from London to NZ or Australia in about 2 years. Now that it's becoming more define we need to think about where. Any advice?

We have 3 kids, currently 7, 3 & 8 months. We're moving to have a change of lifestyle, obviously. We both commute an hour each way into central London and have relatively senior roles. I think I could get into the job market easily enough any of those cities, maybe at a lower level initially. My partner is in Finance in the property sector and might find it a bit more difficult initially. We will look to buy a house once we've settled (and assuming our house value survives brexit).

Priorities are good climate, access to beaches and outdoor activities, good schools, decent job prospects (both happy to take a step down for lifestyle resons), a decent commute, diverse culture as we love that about London, interesting events both family stuff and concerts etc.

Thoughts?

Do investigate visas thoroughly. My DH's visa (I'm Australian; he's British) has cost northwards of 15K so far, with more to go. We applied a year ago and expect it'll take another 9-12 months to come through. Very luckily for us, his company is paying for it all, but you should know that the application fee alone is $7K. Or was a year ago - I believe it's increased again. Look into everything really thoroughly.

I wouldn't choose any of them - I'd look to move somewhere in SE Asia instead. If your partner is in Finance, there are lots of opportunities, and there are some fantastic International Schools.
Get the benefits of weather and lifestyle, at a more affordable cost!

It's damp and the houses are not built for the weather. It's got almost nothing in the way of culture. It's basically some stunning geography with an ugly city dumped on top.

You've summed up my own personal view of Auckland perfectly...add to this terrible shopping and very mediocre restaurants and bars.

I don't think I could cope with the lack of shopping available in Auckland! Love Sydney and Melbourne but you need to be a high earner to reap the benefits.

The only people who like Auckland are people who've never been anywhere else in NZ in my experience. Welly, Christchurch and even Dunedin are much more interesting places to live. (Dunedin is a bit cold though)

Agree about Auckland cold homes in the winter and the long commutes/poor public transport. I think it's a great place to bring up kids. But I don't think it has much for adults, IMO!

Wellington is just fantastic. It’s compact, vibrant, cafe culture, culture!, lots of great little villages dotted around the city, a beach in the city....I really rate it there. Way way better than an Auckland lifestyle.

Lonely planet thinks it’s alright superbegal mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-25/canberra-named-third-best-travel-city-by-lonely-planet/9081954

Auckland commute times are getting ridiculous. My brother's 22km commute Howick to Ak Airport takes him minimum 60 min at 6 am
in the morning and upwards of 90 min when he finishes; one of my friends ditched her car/public transport and went the motorbike route to improve her commute. As for property prices, whilst they may be dipping a touch they're still high.

Melbourne vote from me. We lived in Perth WA, and that was boretastic for me. We went to Melbourne for holidays, and I loved it. Felt more homely to me. I think if my dh got a transfer to Melbourne, I wouldn’t have come back to the UK.

Sydney’s ok, but like any big city.

I have never been to NZ, but it’s on my list.

SuperBeagle I am amused at how differently we view the world! I have a very soft spot for Canberra, possibly because DS is studying there and very happy. Love the national monuments and the fresh air and lack of dreary suburbs and light industry. Last time I was there I saw a large kangaroo just standing outside the War Memorial - it is all very close to the bush.
If I was a multimillionaire I would probably live in Sydney. As a normal person, I love living in Melbourne.

I can’t comment on Melbourne and Sydney - I spent a few months in each but it was 15+ years ago.

I think Auckland’s getting a bit of a bad rap here. Yes, the big problems are housing costs and traffic. As far as I know these are both issues in Melbourne and Sydney too. I’ve seen reports of average wage to average house price ratio and I think all 3 cities are pretty similarly unaffordable.

The traffic can be awful though they do belatedly seem to be making an effort to improve public transport and cycle paths. Having said that, we are 13 km from dh’s work in the CBD, at the moment he leaves about 8.15 and easily gets there for 9. Though the schools aren’t back yet of course.

I think saying it’s “almost entirely devoid of culture” is a little bit harsh. In the next two months I’m seeing 4 Shakespeare plays at the Pop-up Globe. This weekend I’m going to see a Banksy exhibition and then also the exhibition of Italian Renaissance painting that is on at the art gallery. Yesterday a friend and I were planning what to see in March - the English National Ballet’s Giselle, the play of 1984 or a Vivaldi concert. Or possibly we’ll go to all three. Of course it can’t compete with London culturally or even with Sydney or Melbourne but it doesn’t do too badly for a city with a third of the population of either Sydney or Melbourne.

Or course Wellington is lovely too but I guess it depends on where your work will be. Yes you need a lot to buy in Auckland though prices have definitely leveled off and even dropped a bit in the last year. Homes.co.nz is a good website. It gives estimated house values and the figures in red are recently sold prices. Can give you an indication of how prices are going. I think Melbourne and Sydney are equally if not more pricey for houses?

What else I like about Auckland - I’m not bothered about shopping so that’s not an issue for me. I like the Waitakeres and the other (14 or 15?) regional parks close by such a big city. I go walking in them a lot. I love the many beaches. We’ve been camping twice this summer and will probably go another 3 or 4 times before winter. I think my kids are having a good childhood with access to lots of beaches and outdoor space but also close enough to the city to have plenty of cultural activities.

It’s not perfect, but we’re happy here. And yes you do need to look into what you would or wouldn’t get in Aussie as a Kiwi and a Brit

To go through the points in your original post -

Climate. I generally like Auckland’s climate. Yes it rains quite a lot in winter and spring but it means we have a very green landscape. Summers are hot but not crazy hot (though sun is very strong of course). Winter nights are chilly and the houses are cold but winter day temperatures are usually 11-16 degrees. The houses are crap at keeping in heat but I’ve acclimatised to that now.
Access to beaches and outdoor activities - lots of both.
Good schools - mine are doing great at primary. Still to see what high schools are like. Like anywhere, partly depends what area you’re in.

Job prospects - don’t know if they are better or worse for you here than in Aus (or elsewhere in NZ)

Decent commute - can be awful. Try to live as close to your work as possible? Or close to a train line or ferry route.

Diverse culture - Auckland is very diverse these days.

Interesting event experience - as I said in previous post, I think there’s a reasonable amount going on. More in summer with free music in parks, movies in parks etc. Arts festival, film festival, photography festival etc. Certainly lots more going on than when I moved here 15 years ago.

Lived in all of them coming from 25 years in London. Currently in Auckland (Waiheke!)

My order would be

Melbourne (gritty, interesting, cultural, feels European)
Wellington (I know it's not on your list but same as Melbs)
Auckland (Devonport, Takapuna, Waiheke ,Parnell, Whangaparoa, St heliers for lifestyle and beaches)
Sydney (all tits and teeth, no soul, mysoginistic, beaches crammed, terrifying surf, expensive, appalling public transport, excruciating temperatures and too much rain)

Saffron I live in the bush (Snowy Mountains), so it's not all of that that I dislike. I just think it's an incredibly bland city with no life. It's fantastic for students. I have several friends who went there and loved it. But I think for life after uni, it's limiting unless you have a government job!

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply everyone. Absolutely no closer to having a preference though!

I need to start on researching the practical stuff next, as that might help us decide if Australia is a realistic option.

www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/17nz

Your partner's visa will be the big issue though.

That’s the problem sums up with Auckland traffic
The traffic can be awful though they do belatedly seem to be making an effort to improve public transport and cycle paths. Having said that, we are 13 km from dh’s work in the CBD, at the moment he leaves about 8.15 and easily gets there for 9. Though the schools aren’t back yet of course.

I take 50 min to do my morning commute of 56km here in the UK. I don’t think most English realises the slowness of Auckland traffic. They will pick a place that’s 60km from work and expects to cover it in and hour.

I can very much believe 60min from howick to the airport. Google maps says it’s 22km (obviously not door to door, but somewhere in howick to the airport). But you are just confirming what the other poster says about traffic isn’t it? 13km in 45min.

Well it’s not really 13km in 45 min - when I say he gets there by 9 I mean he drives, parks, gets out of car, walks up to the office and is there before 9. The actual driving bit is more like 30-35 minutes. In clear off-peak traffic it’s a 20 minutes drive - most of the journey is not on a motorway so going at 40-50kph with traffic lights, junctions etc.

I’m not saying traffic’s not a problem - it is and is one of the reasons people are leaving Auckland. But Sydney and Melbourne traffic is also not great I think? But I’m not sure a 30 minute drive is that bad when we have a beach at the end of our road and a beautiful regional park a few minutes away...though it’s dh not me doing the drive so he may disagree

Oh the traffic is awful wherever you go. At least in Auckland there are no tolls (excluding northern tunnel of course). In Sydney it can cost upwards of $20 just to drive across the city.

Auckland is fine if you live near a decent bus/train route, and expect the usual rush hour queues. Use back streets where you can - I live 8km drive from my office (in the city), and it takes me 20-25 minutes max, and that often includes a school drop off.

The upsides are that we are minutes from amazing beaches and islands, and then a 4 hour drive to the snow in winter.

I would personally steer clear of capital cities (in Aus can't comment on nz)
In my experience living in smaller cities in Aus you get the same benefits of the larger cities without the huge price tag or horrible traffic jams. Just my experience, though.

We live in Geelong which while has some grotty parts, it also has some lovely parts plus all the city things like some good restaurants, a Westfield etc. It is an hour from Melbourne and half an hour from the Surf coast which has some lovely beaches.

Oh Geelong is lovely. There is also Ballarat but that’s a bit further out and not coastal like Geelong

I'm a Kiwi and would pick Melbourne out of those three UNLESS the best job opportunities for you are in Sydney.

I lived in Auckland for a decade but would never live there again. The traffic and housing issues are too bad.

The visa issue for Australia is a real one. Not the same benefits and for non-Aus/NZ partners they're getting quite slow and obstinate with visas (recent personal experience of kiwi friends and family and foreign spouses).