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Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Want to move to Singapore – where do we start??

20 replies

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 01/01/2018 16:19

DH and I have decided we want to move abroad with our DDs (7 and 4) and after considering a few options (thanks all those who advised me on my earlier thread re schools) have settled on Singapore.

Trouble is, I now feel overwhelmed by the number of moving parts to actually get there, so much so I even wonder whether we can manage it. Sounds a bit pathetic I know but DH and I don’t have great form for organising things, so I wonder if we’re biting off more than we can chew. Still, the thought of not going makes us both feel really depressed, and the girls seem very keen to go too. I feel like it’s the adventure we all need right now.

So far all I have done is emailed the 3 British schools to ask about availability. But now what? Do we lock in a school first, or is that madness before we have jobs? Or vice versa madness to look at jobs with no school places? Where should we even look for jobs? So far we have only had a browse on LinkedIn and emailed a couple of contacts.

Will accommodation be relatively easy to sort once we have school places and at least one job? Or do we have to think about that now too? Apart from schools, jobs and somewhere to live is there anything else we need to consider now? As you can probably tell I have never lived abroad and am probably naïve about the whole process. And everyone I know who has lived/worked abroad has had a lot of help relocating from an employer, which of course we won’t have. We’re hoping to got for half term so could look at schools, areas etc then… possibly even (being optimistic) interview for jobs.

Sorry for the ramble and long list of questions. I guess I would appreciate any help at all from those who have done it before, whether Singapore or anywhere! TIA.

OP posts:
papooshka · 01/01/2018 17:37

I would say you need a job before you even think about moving. The children will need to show their passes (like a visa) when you apply to school and they would only get that once one of you has a job.

Once you have a job offer, your employer has to apply for your employment pass and spouses and kids get their dependant pass from that.

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 01/01/2018 18:11

Thanks papooshka that's good to know. What are our chances of getting a job remotely? Would the last interview always have to be face to face? I'm not sure we could afford many flights back and forth for interviews.

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BookWitch · 02/01/2018 07:54

Your best bet would be to look for recruiters/headhunters in your field that recruit for the far east. They will facilitate a lot for you. Many interviews will be via skype, with a final interview in Singapore (maybe). Most companies will pay expenses for interviewees (the ones that offer decent expat packages do anyway)

Papooshka is right that you need the job first to gain your residency, before applying to schools

What field do you work in? (If you say you're teachers/education based, I can put you in touch with the recruiters we use)

Rankellior · 02/01/2018 08:00

We briefly considered a move to Singapore a few years back so here’s what we learnt:

  • we had jobs sorted as would have been an internal move so that wasn’t a consideration. as others said you need a firm job offer before you do anything else
  • British schools were generally full but there are other good international schools that had space. Depending on when you’re planning on moving too there may be a big exodus end of term as expats move back.
  • we found there was plenty of housing available to rent but it was very pricey.

All in we loved Singapore but it is expensive - we’d need a significant uplift on our UK wages to afford a decent condo/house and send two kids to international school.

Good luck, I’d love to go there for a few years with the kids

ShotsFired · 02/01/2018 08:09

While I admire your desire to jump in with both feet, your comment on the previous thread: But apart from a quick stopover in each, many years ago, we don't know them well is setting off quite some alarm bells for me.

That quick stopover some years ago is such a hugely different kettle of fish to actually upping sticks and living there. For one (fairly major) point, the climate will knock you for six for quite a while. Heat is one thing, but the humidity will floor you. All well and good on holidays, but when you have to work, live, school and commute in it...

Another point I'd make is the culture of corruption and back handers. More prevalent in some places than others, but even in Singapore you will find it.

And all the rest of it.

I'm not going to tell you not to go, but you do need to be really aware of what you are heading into, as you won't have the "practice" experience of being an expat in a Western country beforehand (from what I can tell?)

chocolateavocado99 · 02/01/2018 08:16

I would be very hesitant to do anything until you have job offers (which include schooling for your dcs). International schools are expensive and as a pp mentioned, your dcs will need a visa to be accepted. I also doubt you would be able to rent a flat without a work permit.
What type of work are you looking for?

Kuriusoranj · 02/01/2018 08:17

Agree with the PPs - your first move needs to be to get a job for one of you. That will give you an employment pass (EP) and the others can then get dependent passes (DP) which will allow you residency. Otherwise the best you will get is a short term tourist visa - and that will not allow you to register your children in school, or rent a flat, or set up a bank account or enter into any contract at all to be honest. Don't try to get here on tourist visas and try to find work - it just won't work like that here. Singapore is a very centralised country and you need your magic number from your pass to get anywhere.

Depending on your field, it may be very easy or quite tough to get an EP - reports are mixed. There are rules for organisations about trying to recruit locals before they are allowed to employ foreigners, plus there is a miminum wage threshold for issuing an EP. On the other hand, the government is very realistic and understands their dependency on ex-pats, so it's easier to work here than in some other places.

Once you have a job, look at schools and then where you want to live. Don't stick to the big British International schools necessarily - there's a current trend of 'lower cost' (still extortionate) schools, such as Middleton and Invictus. Then there is a second tier of 'normal' international schools, before you get to the big bucks likes of Tanglin, Dover Court and so on. The difference is largely about facilities - all the international schools here are fine, but let's just say if I was paying this much money for this level of education in the UK, I'd be outraged. Don't expect top-notch private education here, that's not what you pay for.

Re location, I'd recommend living close to the school, rather than work, but bear in mind it's a tiny place. We live a 20 min taxi ride from the office and it's considered a long commute here. Our schools are walkable from home - which in this weather is less than 1 km.

You won't have any problems with finding somewhere to live - there is a glut of rental properties here, with rents still falling as a result. You will find something in your price range in the rough area you decide on. Rents my friends pay go from just less than $2,000 a month to $20,000. The true expat areas are in River Valley - you've got your Orchard Road shoppers up there. We went for the East Coast - you get more for your money, it's much more suburban and feels more real to me. Depends what you want from the experience. I'd absolutely recommend a condo not a landed house for your first go, no matter what you think you'd prefer. You will really benefit from the instant socialising of condo life when you first arrive (and it doesn't have to be oppressive - my husband and I are real anti-social types and we get along fine).

Budget very carefully - it is expensive here and your first few months are spent haemorrhaging money. You will have to pay out 2-3 months rent in advance, plus deposit for schools and 1-2 terms school fees for each child in advance. If you're mad enough or rich enough to get a car, that's another kidney you'll need to spend.

And then there's the helper decision.... Not going to open that can of worms, but I'll leave it by saying - don't assume you won't go for it, so make sure you rent somewhere that has somewhere to put her if you do.

Having got through all that - it's a wonderful place to live. We have done 5-7 trips every year we've been here, saved a huge amount, made some great friends and really sucked the marrow out of the experience. It's very very easy to live here. We're at the opposite end of the adventure to you - we leave in 6 weeks, after 5 or so years here. It's time for us to go, but I can't say I won't miss the place.

Kuriusoranj · 02/01/2018 08:25

Just refreshed the thread and with respect, I'd offer a counter balance to ShotsFired. It's true that there's risk in coming here without a pre-visit, but honestly, it's so easy here. It's absolutely the perfect place for your first ex-pat experience. Nowhere else will ever be this easy to live - certainly nowhere else in Asia comes close. Not for nothing is this described as Asia-lite. Everyone speaks English as a matter of routine, there's a very strong ex-pat community. To anyone planning to move here, I'd say worry about the financial aspects (if you don't get a good job, it will be miserable here) but not a lot else.

The humidity is horrific, but as a consequence, it's a very indoor life. Most days you go from air-conditioned flat to air-conditioned taxi to air-conditioned office or shopping centre etc etc. And you do acclimatise very quickly. If you want long days at the beach or lots of outdoor exercise, this is not the place for you.

And yes, there's corruption at the highest levels, but this is not Indonesia. You will not be carrying a $100 bill around to sweeten any interaction. For the most part, the rule of law is worshipped, not ignored.

BrandNewHouse · 02/01/2018 08:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 02/01/2018 09:57

Thank you so much everyone. I love mn :)

It sounds like everyone is in agreement on the employment point. While it makes me very nervous to jump in without knowing the school situation at least it's a single place to start...

Both DH and I work in data analysis/publishing/tech. There seem to be lots of jobs on LinkedIn, though admittedly in industries I'm not very close to like banking. I have contacted a recruiter I know over there to set up a call, and also sending my CV to lots of friends/contacts, hopefully will find an in that way. But I realistically need to find other recruiters too. If anyone knows any in relevant fields please let me know!

Thank you shots for your very sensible note of caution. While it is true that I am completely clueless about the process and haven't spent much time in Singapore itself, I have perhaps more experience of the far East and of expat life than I have described (sorry if this is drip feeding, just tried to keep my OPs short!). About 15 years ago I spent a few months living as an expat with family in China, and over the following 5 years travelled quite a lot in Asia. I also lived with my parents for a while as an expat in the Middle East (not as humid admittedly but much hotter!).

Despite not knowing it very well, the reason we eventually chose Singapore is precisely because it does appear to be easier to relocate to and settle into than HK, KL, Bangkok etc

The prices do worry me slightly. Dover Court seems to be comparable school fees to what we're paying here, but the other British schools are about £3k more a year. I think we can rent our house here though and get a decent apartment for similar rent so that will come out neutral. Also my understanding is that tax is lower (and yes I do feel ashamed for talking about this Blush) so that should help?

And thank you Kuriusoranj for your detailed posts. Sounds like you love it there. The idea of it does make me excited, though I am still nervous about uprooting the DDs. Why are you leaving, if you don't mind me asking?

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 02/01/2018 11:00

Well then all I can say is: Good luck to you @christmastreewithhairyfairy!

I hope it is a huge success and you have a fantastic time! I'll look you up when I am next passing through and you can make me Envy with your fabulous S'pore life! Grin

(I do mean that genuinely, I realise it might inadvertantly come across as sarcastic!)

Kuriusoranj · 02/01/2018 11:03

Yeah, sorry, I do go on a bit.

I do love it here. Increasingly so now I know it's about to end. It's just time for us - I'm a bit over the transient nature. I want a garden and some pets and to decorate. Plus the ages of my children mean wherever we are in 6 months time, we'll be there for 10 years. And there's no way I could do another 10 years in this lovely bubble.

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 02/01/2018 14:38

Kuriusoranj I didn't mean to imply you go on a bit, sorry! It just comes across how much you like it, which is great. I know what you mean about the bubble though. It was like that where my parents were in the middle east and for ages I thought I'd hate that. Now... I guess we're a bit miserable here and the thought of being in a warm bubble, just for a few years, appeals hugely.

Thanks shots Grin. I am not at all sure we will make it there, given that DH and I can't organise piss ups in breweries, but if we do, come and visit :)

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OrraBoralis · 03/01/2018 09:43

Kuriusoranj I know exactly what you mean about this lovely bubble.

I have been in this lovely bubble for 23 years and I now hate it. We moved here in 1995 when my children were almost one and two. It was a 3 year ongoing contract and I thought we would be back in the UK for my eldest to go to school. That never happened and they were here until they were 18 and then they had to either get work, study here or leave. We made them leave and go back to the UK for Uni.

We have a house in the UK that we had rented out so my kids went there when they returned to the UK. OP you wont get into Singapore to live if you don't have a job. You really need an Employment Pass if you are taking dependents with you, otherwise you can get a Work Permit.

Singapore is really Asia-Lite but it is expensive and a bit soul destroying after a few years. I am on a Depandants Pass and if my DH lost his job we would be out of the Country in 3 months.

One thing I found nice was I could volunteer more easily. I did Meals on Wheels for many years and I loved that.

But, overall Singapore is not a place you pick to live, you need a job and a Company to sponsor you.'

Kuriusoranj PM me, maybe we can get together for a drink and a moan Grin

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 03/01/2018 10:38

Thank you Orra. Sounds like you're very ready to come home! I admit I don't think I could hack it for that long either - we are thinking maybe 3 years until we need to think about secondary schools, then make the decision do we want to try another country or come back to the UK. We would also be keeping our house here to have that option. Did you enjoy it for the first few years, and did your DCs? Or have you always felt like this?

I like the sound of the volunteering opportunities, though realistically to afford school fees we will both need paid roles. Did you have a paid role out there and if not was that because they were hard to come by?

I've heard back from Dulwich and Dover and they say we can apply without having the EP initially (though obvs we would need it before we moved) so I am considering picking one and going for it. I'd rather lose the deposit I think than risk the DCs not having places. Is that mad?

In the meantime DH and I are jobhunting as I realise that without that we are nowhere. I assume only one of us needs to find something initially though and the other can be a dependent and apply for EP later?

OP posts:
BookWitch · 03/01/2018 14:40

I wouldn't pay for a school place until you have a definite job start date to be honest. I work in education in Asia, and while places in Singapore have historically been extremely hard to come by, the market has eased considerably in the last couple of years (due to there being more schools opening and large numbers of expats leaving).
The school might claim they are full and can't guarantee a place unless you pay, but I'd wait, I'd be 99% sure a place at least one of your preferred school would open up.

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 03/01/2018 17:41

Thanks bookwitch that is reassuring. Yes they are claiming to be full, sort of - Dulwich and Dover both said they will or probably will have Reception places in Sept but are full for Y3, though may free up after Apr. Tanglin says it is likely to be full till 2020! We're also happy to consider the non British schools, I just haven't emailed them all yet.

More worrying that you say loads of expats are leaving - why is that do you know??

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THirdEeye · 03/01/2018 20:00

I’m actually moving to Singapore soon and have two DC and one that is School age.

It’s true that Tanglin, Dover court and Dulitch college were full (year one).....tanglin told us that they had no avialblity until 2019!

Just be prepared that when you apply, then register your DC you will have to pay a fee. The application fee we paid was roughly £500 and the registration fee was roughly £1500. Also, it’s worth baring in mind that in regards to rental you are required to pay three months rent in advance....which again is pretty expensive!

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 03/01/2018 22:11

Thanks third, and lots of luck with the move! I did notice the registration fees - ouch. For Dulwich I think it would be something like £4.5k total for the 2 dcs Shock
Which school are you going for out of interest?

OP posts:
Ralyr · 09/01/2018 08:51

I live in Singapore and my husband has moved out here more than 20 years ago from the UK. Before you move out here, you will have to be mentally prepared to give up a few things simply due to the impossible cost here:

  1. A car - cost but this is a luxury as it's so easy to get around on public transport.
  2. Big apartments - unless you get it part of your package!
  3. Nature/Hikes/Outdoor stuff - because it's so hot!
  4. High school fees

At 4, your 2nd child could still go to a lower cost 'local' preschool (we pay $1500 for 10 weeks, 3 hours a day, 5 days a week) but at 7, you'll have to be paying for International School. Even at the lowest priced International Schools (Invictus), you are looking at 20k a year.

It's a lovely place to live though. It's very expensive but you are paying for safety, convenience and a lovely little expat bubble. It's hard to leave after awhile. We live 5 minutes away from Orchard Road in Newton and pay SGD 7k for rent in a 1800 sqft, 3 bedroom apartment with a pool.

Another thing to consider is age and employment - it's very easy for companies to hire and fire so I wouldn't make BIG plans to let your house in the U.K. out until after probation/you're sure to live here as being on employment pass is always rather risky (unless it's an internal transfer). It's also getting quite difficult to apply for PR here from what I've heard from friends who have lived here long-term.

It can be difficult to find freelance/part-time corporate work for Mums so alternative childcare after school would also have to be considered. We have a helper who lives with us and we pay about SGD 1000 excluding lodging and food. For foreigners, there will be higher cost involved here due to taxes.

I hope this helps!

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