Where do you live and what do you love/hate?

[Bubble90]

Firstly, new on here so hi! I am currently pregnant with my third (due december) and have 2 boys ages 1 and 3. Me my husband and our boys currently live in Northern Ireland but hopefully not for long.

I'm doing a lot of reaearch. To keep a long story short we were meant to move to Canada in April and the whole plan crumbled. Since then our lives here just feel like theyre going nowhere. Our family are scattered all over the world and more and more of our family are moving abroad (the ones we're close with anyway).

We've now had to accept the harsh reality that Canada is never going to happen and we are now looking else where. It's hard to research a place having not been there and we can't go everywhere so id love to hear people's pros and cons of where they live, especially those who may not live in English speaking countries. We're a very outdoorsy family and we like to be as self sufficient as possible. So big cities aren't really our thing lol

I live in Cyprus. I love the weather, the fact that I feel safe and secure. I love the produce and the fact that we grow loads of things we couldn't in the UK. Loads of things are the same, loads of people speak English and I have access to everything I miss from England. I love the Island and we have access to towns, beaches and mountains but my my village is generally agricultural. I have also had very positive experiences of private and public healthcare here.

I hate the fact that we haven't really integrated with ex-pats or locals. It took DH 5 years to build his business. I have never been able to get a job because you need 3 languages to work in Lidl. I also can't get dd a nursery place and we've been ripped off left right and centre by vsrious tradesmen. There's quite a lot of red tape for various things too but you get that everywhere.

Reykjavík, Iceland.

Upsides:

• Very safe, relaxed, child and family-friendly society compared to the UK. To elaborate with some examples: Children are usually allowed out and about by themselves from a much younger age than seems to be the case back in the UK, because it's so safe they are given much more freedom.

Seems to me that parents are usually able to have a good work-life balance (we certainly do) and there is more equality in the division of parenting duties between men and women, e.g. men and women have equal rights regarding leave after the birth of a baby and although in practice women do take more, the majority of men do use their leave and fathers are very much expected to be involved parents rather than working long hours and only seeing them on the weekends. Childcare is very affordable (subsidised from 9 months and heavily subsidised from 2 years) and excellent quality once you get into the state preschools. No formal schooling until the year your child turns 6. No higher education until 20, so children have a bit longer to grow up, which appeals to me although my children aren't school age yet.

• Cool, bright summers. I'm not one for heat and I love the Icelandic summers. We're currently having a 'heat-wave' because it's gone over 20° in some parts of the country. 24 hours of daylight from May-July is incredible.

• Reykjavík is the perfect city in my opinion because it's tiny, but it's still a capital city. So it has everything you could want with the population of a small town and you can quickly and easily get out to a mountain or a beach - I live in a particularly lovely location and can be on a beach in about 3 minutes on foot. I too hate big cities (well, they're nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live in one) but also don't like the inconvenience of more remote locations and how much harder it is to cycle/walk when amenities are far away. So it is uniquely perfect for me. I doubt there are many cities in the world that offer so much in such a small package.

• If you can't be bothered to learn the language or need a bit of time before you can handle day-to-day life in Icelandic, you'll do just fine. Most people speak great English and are used to foreigners. I put this in because you mentioned non-English speaking countries. Doesn't apply to me personally as I do speak Icelandic and I think anyone who wants to live here really should as it confers a huge amount of benefits and is frankly just respectful, but honestly you don't HAVE to at all.

• The swimming pools. Outdoor, geothermal swimming pools are such a big part of my life now and I would hate to move back to the UK for this reason alone. I've never been to a UK swimming pool that wasn't rubbish compared to a swimming pool in even the tiniest little Icelandic village. They are wonderful for children, too.

• Higher education is extremely affordable. No tuition fees in the biggest university, just a small registration fee. It is also flexible, very easy to be a student and a parent (even to a young baby) for example, compared to the UK, and easy to change your mind about what you want to study (partly because it's not such a huge financial outlay).

• Beautiful landscape, paradise for hikers etc.

• Best country in the world in terms of equality between men and women.

• Nice and close to the UK, so relatively easy to travel back and forth for us and family/friends.

Downsides:

• The downsides of a tiny society are high amounts of nepotism and corruption in politics and society in general. Contrary to what a lot of people on the internet seem to think, Iceland is politically the most conservative of the Nordic countries. And if you don't have a support network it can be hard to get a toehold in the Icelandic job market etc, because so many jobs go to someone the person hiring already knows. That's part of how I got my job. Although I am qualified for it, of course, and good at it, it was a personal connection that got my foot in the door. So starting completely fresh in Iceland can be very hard unless you have a highly-valued skill like computer programming or medicine or something.

• Dark, stormy winters. It's hard for me living with extremely low daylight for 3 months of the year. Really hard. Winter weather lasts a long time as well, for about 6 months of the year it could snow at any time! I like the cold and also the snow up to a point, but I don't like the dark or the storms.

• Absolutely overrun with tourists. This was not really the case when I moved here but it's crazy now. And the tourism industry is ruining the housing market. Far, far more flats are available on Airbnb than are available for long-term rent and housing to buy is often snapped up by rich people and then put on Airbnb, so prices are astronomical and rich people get richer whilst many people who are less well off are really struggling. I am very lucky not to be personally affected by this (anymore) as we did manage to buy our own property but until Airbnb and similar are banned or the tourism bubble bursts this is only going to get worse.

• We do have a national healthcare system but it's not quite as good as the NHS. You do have to pay for some things (like seeing a GP).

• Cost of living is generally high.

• Poor selection in terms of food shopping compared to the UK. I mean, you can certainly get everything you need but sometimes I walk into a supermarket when I'm back in the UK and I'm blown away by all the stuff you can get.

I live in Canada, in Québec. So a French speaking province in an English speaking country.

I know you said you can't move to Canada but from the perspective of a non English speaking place, it can be hard to integrate and difficult if you do need to find work.

I lived in Australia before Canada and can thoroughly recommend it (UK born citizen though).

Thanks for your replies :) work life balance is very important to us. Currently my husband is working very very long hours the kids may not see him for days. As is the case with any well paid job in the UK. The money is nice but as we are quite self sufficient (not totally but do what we can and we often do without) the money isn't worth not having family time. It's really putting a strain on our family at the moment as up until last year this wasn't the case.

I've known lots of people who have lived in Cyprus but never with families. Is Cyprus quite an agricultural place? It's never somewhere if of thought of living as most people I've known to live there have worked as holiday reps or bar staff.

I'm glad you've mentioned Iceland, Nordic countries have always had an appeal to us. They seem to be a lot more about families and I love the history. But as you say, getting a job would be difficult. Would also be nice to have proper winters. My kids have never seen snow 😂 been a long time since I seen any snow myself too but I'm sure the excitement of winter quickly wears off when you can't get anything done. Did you move for a job or did you get a job once you had already decided to move ? Is private health insurance something to also consider then?

We were moving to Cornwall Ontario. Very close to Quebec he have family in Quebec and we noticed a lot of jobs around that area would of required by husband to speak French too. I know learning the language will be important anywhere we go to help integrate. I worry how long it will take me to learn it though ! Lol

I live in South America but I doubt that would be on your radar

I love the fact that people are positive and friendly, that food is local and fresh, that there's less pollution and more simple living. That the weather is great in summer and more outdoors living can take place, that a lot of things are still handmade, that where we live it's safe for children to play outside or teens to go out and about alone. That the landscape is breathtaking.

I hate that things like toys, shoes, school supplies, electronics or cars cost a fortune unless you buy contraban, so many struggle or put up with bad quality, that building regulations are not always enforced, that corruption leads to poor quality roads, that people drop litter in our beautiful landscape, that time keeping varies dramatically between people, that the politics is messed up.

I live on a tropical island....

Things I love

Avocados the size of your head and at a price you can guilt-free chuck them away if they are rock hard when you go to bed and black when you get up.

A kilogram of prawns for 50p

My lovely lovely helper

(Some of) my colleagues.

What I hate

Flashing tuk drivers. And I mean willies not indicators.
Bus drivers that strike for their right to break traffic laws, drive like maniacs, drunk, and often kill people without a fine.
Attitudes towards woman that make Jim Davidson look progressive.
Bad drivers, like the worst most stupid drivers with a total inability to make any decision which might make any sort of sense at all.
Failure to take responsibility for ANYTHING
Policeman who at best do nothing but scratch their balls and check their phones and at worst blackmail and torture people
Treating people like shit on your shoe if they are different from you while publicly proclaiming what a tolerant and compassionate society you are.
Horrible treatment of animals entirely at odds with a national and oft-cited religious philosophy.
A misplaced perception on how cosmopolitan a capital city is.
Bad service.
Bad coffee.
Bad food.
Bad wine.
Bad furniture
Ridiculous public holidays. All the bloody time.
The world's most boring airport.
An airport which requires paper copies of everything otherwise it's unable to function.
Laziness.
Clothes which are polyester and think everything a grown woman desires has a glittery disney motif on it.
HSBC debit cards which don't work in HSBC machines
Gormless just about everyone in a customer-facing/decision-making/problem-solving role.
The inability to pack your own shopping and the queues that generate while you stand at the checkout like a lemon on your mobile waiting for someone to do it for you.
The overuse of plastic bags
Watching people throw plastic bags out of car/bus windows when you are driving behind them.
Actually just Plastic bags.
Hypochondria; "wheezes", "paining" and "fevers"
Really bad writing in newspapers; particularly overuse of the words 'nabbed' and 'demise'
Pointy shoes. Pleather shoes
Crap stock control. It comes from the same bloody diary. You don't need different cows for different milk.
Sugar in everything

However everyone who comes to visit me thinks it's a paradise and wants to move here and open a beach bar. Don't be those people!

Yes a lot of people in Cyprus do work in tourism but live in the villages. I live 15 minutes drive from a very famous lively resort on the East coast. Most people I know work in tourism or have businesses connected to it, or they have the kind of jobs where they can work anywhere or they work for the Ministry of Defence. ( two sovereign bases very close by) But there are big companies here too.

My inlaws retired here because Canada wouldn't let them in and it ticked a lot of boxes on their wish list although I expect the cheap property and driving on the same side of the road as the uk played a big part.

I have children the same age as you op. Despite the nursery thing I think its a great place to bring up children. There's loads for them to do and everywhere is child friendly.

We set up a business here. I was supposed to work, never found a job but then had my children and the business grew enough to support us.

My two closest friends have just returned to the UK though. They both said it was because the Cypriot high school certificate isn't good enough for international universities and both felt their children have a brighter future if they continue their education in the UK. I have had conflicting advice on this and feel I will cross this bridge when I come to it.

We have snow on the mountains in winter. Last year we went on Christmas eve. Never used the ski school though.

Yes with Brexit private healthcare insurance might be a good idea.you need to have paid social insurance for a few years here before it's free.

I moved originally to be an au pair for a year. Liked it so much I stayed and the following year I met my partner (Icelandic). It was hard to find a job that first year that I wasn't an au pair. But eventually I found something and worked a bit in a café and then went to university here to get the qualification (MA) I needed for the job I'd decided I really wanted to do. Got the job immediately (like I said, thanks to contacts I'd made as a student). By that time my partner and I had moved in together and soon after that were expecting our first child. Second due any day now! I've been here almost 7 years at this point.

So I have a lot of different perspectives on the country, as an au pair, a student, a mother, being unemployed, being employed.

You can get stuff done in the winter despite the snow - Reykjavík doesn't really get THAT much snow anyway. It is annoying when it is all slippery out, but generally everything is set up to cope with snow so life goes on as normal really.

No, no, there's no need for private health insurance at all. It's not too bad, just not as good as the NHS. In fact I'm not even sure private health insurance is a thing here at all.
For an example that I'm familiar with, in my pregnancies all antenatal care is completely free apart from scans which are considered optional (early dating scan, NT scan). 12 week scan without the nuchal translucency test and 20 week anatomy scan free, as well as any extra scans ordered by a midwife or doctor. Giving birth is completely free with everything you might want except that your partner has to pay to stay overnight with you in your private room at the hospital after the birth. You and the baby stay for free :) Although I think for second babies they encourage you to go home if you're up to it rather than take a room.
Other things I've had to pay for include: eye tests for my daughter, a mammogram, seeing a GP, chicken pox vaccination for my daughter, physiotherapy for my daughter. But it's not expensive by any means, it's very heavily subsidised, just not completely free as I expect many of those things would be on the NHS.
You get the same coverage as any other person in the country as soon as you've been living here for 6 months.

Thanks for all the replies, getting so much information! It's interesting to hear the pros and cons of where people live, especially as I only really looked into Canada because that's where we were going and that was that yet here we are ...

Hot countries aren't all that appealing to me, I like the sunshine just not the heat that comes with it lol I don't do well in heat Lol

I'm not sure my husband will have much luck finding a job is the worrying thing. He is an air conditioning and refrigeration mechanic which seems to be more in demand in hotter counties.

I would love to visit Iceland. We've actually been talking about going once the baby is born for some very much needed family time. Would be interesting to look into life in Iceland while were there. My husband got to where he is now by being a chatter box so no doubt he'll be good at finding out what he needs to know while were there 😂 7 years and still loving it is a good sign though! What sort of things do you do with the kids/ as a family ? Is the quality of healthcare good (despite the added costs)? How do you find the language ? Did you pick it up fairly quickly? Sorry for all the questions ! I'm genuinely very interested :)

Quebec here, also. Lived in NZ, UK, Australia previously. Quebec is by far the most bureaucratic of these places, I've found.
Hi toffee. Can I ask if you found work here easily? ( sorry, OP)

Well, we've been having super weather these past few days and we're all on holiday so some recent things we've done with our 2-year-old are:
Go to the playground.
Go to the beach.
Go to the 'zoo' (not a proper zoo, just domestic animals plus a few Icelandic animals like seals and reindeer).
Go swimming.
Take her out in the bike trailer.
Go out for ice-cream.
(Wasn't personally present for all these myself due to being very pregnant!)

I imagine the sort of things that people do with their kids anywhere really! Though I am looking forward to when we have children who are a bit older and we can take them on little hikes, because that's what I really like doing myself and that's what Iceland is great for. There are also various museums that she will enjoy when she's a bit older.

When the weather's not so nice we still go swimming, because since it's geothermal and always toasty warm you can go all year round even though it's outside. Swimming is a staple! Also the library, cafés, etc. Sledging when it's snowy (and not stormy) although she's still a bit young for that.

I have no complaints about the healthcare at all. It's hard to really know though as I don't have much to compare it with and have never been seriously ill or injured - neither has my toddler, though she has required a bit of attention beyond the standard checkups. I was 22 when I moved here and hadn't needed to use the NHS for anything other than routine stuff. So I suppose I'm not a great source on that front! Oh, one complaint - I once had cause to get myself checked for chlamydia and they didn't want to actually test me, they wanted to just give me antibiotics either way . I did insist on knowing whether I actually had it or not (luckily not!) and they did comply but I thought that was monumentally stupid. Hopefully that was one stupid nurse rather than actual policy.

The language is fine. I love it actually and it's one of the reasons I wanted to come here. Like any other it has its easy bits and hard bits. It's a Germanic language like English so there is a lot of overlap. A lot of the vocabulary is extremely easy to pick up (e.g. bók is book, hús is house, flaska is bottle - a huge amount is very intuitive for English speakers). The grammar is really quite tricky and some of the pronunciation can be difficult, but the spelling is all very phonetic so that's another easy point. I learnt a bit before I came (self-study for 2 years) and just continued teaching myself and practicing once I got here. It hasn't been that difficult for me - the key is actually using it, which is easier said than done when Icelanders are so good at English that you can get away with not bothering. I'm definitely not perfect but I can function in Icelandic in all situations - social, professional, public, medical, academic etc - so I'd say I'm fluent despite not being fully up to native level. I was able to work in a café and do an MA completely in Icelandic by my second year here, so that would be 4 years of learning. I don't think I could have done the MA any earlier than I did, really.
Really lots of immigrants barely speak Icelandic, though, and although I'm sure it MUST limit them it's not like they can't live here. I have one friend who moved here almost exactly when I did and she almost never speaks Icelandic, although she has picked up a lot passively and can understand it well to read or listen to.

Well its a shame you dont like the heat because we could do with decent refridgeration engineers. It's actualy something my DH considered getting into here.

Anyway Iceland sounds great! I just wanted to wish you luck. It's a great thing to do but it does need careful consideration. My DH always wanted to live in America. It's ok for holidays but I just couldn"t live there. He did have a job possibility but we'd just bought a house and it was the wrong time. He's never let me forget it but I know we made the right choice. It felt like a comptomise not being so far from home.

Mrsnec (Don't know how to tag people lol) , he would do brilliantly in a hot country. He actually has a friend in Austrailia that suggested he come out. They make q killing out there and there is always work but besides being so far away I just about cope with Northern Irish summer's 😂 as does he (should of picked a different trade lol). I love those sorts of places I just wish I could afford to holiday at all of them. I love the sun for a nice little holiday break but other than that I think I'd struggle day to day in the heat. A friend of mine moved to Spain last month and is already complaining about the heat 😂 she didn't think that part through lol Yeah I feel so guilty that we can't go to Canada , everything was in place and when we found out we couldn't go my husband was absolutely crushed. Hed already arranged work and our family there had arranged everything else for us. So I am determined to make sure our next (attempted) move works ! Especially with another baby on the way, I hadn't planned on having anymore children until we had moved to Canada and I found out i was pregnant as soon as I found out we weren't going! So really feeling like I need to get the ball rolling.

Iceland always had an appeal to us I just never seen it as a realistic goal (high cost of living, language barrier). Now that I know Canada is actually the unrealtic goal Iceland is seeming like it could possibly be a bit more within our reach, provided my husband could find work of course, that will be the hard part. I used to worry that the children would struggle with a different language but given most speak English anyway I'm sure they will be able to pick it up in their own time ( a lot quicker than me anyway). They are still young after all which is why we're at the perfect stage to make a change like this we don't own our house and we don't have much debt (just our car) so we don't have much to lose!

Takk, how did you get to know people ? Was it mainly through your time in Uni ? I wonder how difficult it would be to meet new people being a stay at home mum of 3 . My husbands one of those people you just can't shut up so he'll probably be fine 😂 as soon as I mentioned possibly looking into Iceland he was on looking for people to talk to.

Barring neurological problems with language in general, children as young as yours do not struggle to pick up a new language! You'll get them into a playschool and they'll be fluent before you know what's what, trust me. Children with different mother tongues get special support to help them learn Icelandic. And for the interim stage, the staff will understand them in English. Bit different for us as our daughter has been exposed to both languages since birth, but she occasionally uses English at playschool as she still mixes her languages a bit and her teachers are well able to respond appropriately.

The hard parts will indeed be finding employment, finding housing and making friends. Don't underestimate the housing issue, because like I said the housing market in the capital area is bananas due to rampant tourism. The more remote your location, the harder it will be to make social connections I think as Iceland really is a one-city country and a lot of things are only available in Rvk, plus over 60% of the entire population live here. There are other towns like Akureyri or Selfoss that are a fairly decent size, and the suburbs like Hafnarfjörður or Mosfellsbær would be OK, but I personally wouldn't even consider one of the little villages. Trouble is, accommodation is obviously a lot cheaper the further you are from Reykjavík so some level of compromise may be necessary depending on your means. For example, I expect it would be easy peasy to find something affordable in Ísafjörður but then you'd be living in Ísafjörður, which is definitely not for everyone!

To start with, I mainly met people through Icelandic lessons. And a few other foreigners from social media groups. Many of these had Icelandic partners who of course had other Icelandic friends so soon enough I was socialising with a combination of Icelanders and other immigrants. Without going into too much detail, that's the gist of how I met my partner. Met some more people at uni but because it was a Master's we were all a bit older and at different life stages so it wasn't like being an undergrad and I'd say those people are more acquaintances than friends.
If you can get to Icelandic evening lessons it's a great way to start, because you'll meet a lot of people in the same boat as you (and obviously the lessons are useful anyway if you're a complete beginner). There is also a supportive immigrant parent community here that organises meetings and so forth - you can get involved by just joining the relevant groups on FB. Also a few playgroups for people home with babies/toddlers that are very 'immigrant friendly'. As long as you're in reach of Rvk or another reasonable size town I wouldn't worry too much, there are lots of ways to meet people.

Does your husband work with freezers at all? Sorry, not really sure what his work entails exactly from your description but although nobody really has air-con here for obvious reasons, the fishing industry is huge and that involves a lot of refrigeration and freezing of course!

I imagine I will probably find my children will be the ones teaching me 😂 i like the fact that children dont start compulsory school until 6 years old. Ive already been getting pressured by the health visitor for not sending my son to nursery in September even though it isn't compulsory (he only just turned 3 I personally think that is far too young). I can see how housing would be difficult as even on a Google search for a quick estimate of the cost living it returned 11 (small) apartments and that was without putting a budget on it !

Id be determined to meet new people, I've lived here my whole life and I have no friends here. My friends and family have had a lot more success taking the leap and going elsewhere than we have ! I imagine living in the city or at least close by would be a good start in any country really as it gives us a chance to get used to the way things are done, pick up the language, meet new people, find work etc just as shame about the associates costs. In saying that my husband's job is usually very well paid although not sure if that's the case in Iceland.

Yes his qualifications are in air conditioning and refrigeration. So it covers quite a lot. When doing his course it covered basic plumbing, heating, electrics, freezers, fridges, air conditioning . I don't totally understand his work but yeah there is no air conditioning here either all his air conditioning work was for hospitals and big offices. Majority of his refrigeration work is on freezers/fridges/freezer rooms on large warehouses and supermarkets. Which is why we don't see much of him, you'd be shocked how often those things break 😂

Bubble I live in Bavaria - you might like it.

Work life balance - presentee-ism isn't common at all. I remember in the UK people were judged for only working their hours, regardless of whether they got the work done. Here its very normal to work your hours and go home. People in office jobs don't spend hours in the middle of the day on facebook at work and then stay til 8pm to actually finish the work and look oh so dedicated and busy, they go to work, work, and leave at 5pm happily. Office hours also seem to be more flexible if you have an office job - DH tends to work 7am - 3pm if I'm on a late shift so he can pick the younger kids up at 4pm, and 8:30am - 4:30pm if I'm on an early (because he stays athome til the younger kids leave for the school bus at 7am if I'm not home) I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times per year he leaves the office later than 4:30pm.

We definitely have proper winters - a bit too proper, we still have snow on the ground. Getting things done is no problem though because the roads are always cleared. Schools never ever close due to snow and nobody misses work due to snow. Nobody makes a drama out of the weather.

Your husband would find a job if he spoke German - here's one I found in 30 seconds by googling

www.stepstone.de/stellenangebote--Mechatroniker-in-fuer-Kaeltetechnik-Muenchen-Muenchner-Kaelte-Klimatechnik-e-K--4858529-inline.html

For me the language is the main drawback - I now (after 10 years) speak it well enough to work and study in German, but I hate the foggy feeling of often not quite understanding, and the fact that my written German is appalling (I know have to write essays in German as I'm retraining). It knocks my identity a bit as I have a degree in English and writing essays is one thing I can usually do well and without too much effort, but now its so difficult, takes so long and the results are still linguistically dreadful.

Of course the language is also an advantage because I always wanted my children to be bilingual, and they are :o

The school system is imperfect, but by the sound of it the English school system is also now exam and testing riddled (which is the main negative point of the German system) so there may not be much to choose between them. Northern Ireland may be better - tbh I have no idea about schools where you are. Germany scores higher on PISA than any UK country.

I was 6 months pregnant when I moved here - I've found health care here to be much better than England, and it's free at the point of use. Health insurance is priced according to your earnings - if you aren't earning and your husband is his insurance covers you and all your kids.

Shops are closed on Sundays, school is mornings only. Those can be disadvantages or advantages, I find them to be advantages. Primary schools mostly have some kind of after school care if you want to work, but this can be expensive - ours is about €100 per child per month, our younger children stay til 4pm. Kindergarten cost about the same, so it means if you work and have your child looked after in the afternoons you'll keep paying roughly Kindergarten fees til your child is around 10.

In Bavaria the countryside is very, very different to cities. I barely recognise people's experiences of living in Munich in many ways, and we are only 40km outside. Germany varies dramatically by state, and the states can be as different from one another in terms of school systems etc. as the countries of the UK are from one another.

Good luck with your plans.

I live in a city in Northern Italy. Most of my negatives are to do with it being a city! A lot of people move to Italy for a slower pace of life - I moved from rural UK to busy Italy - d'oh!

Bad
Traffic, traffic, traffic - manic drivers, lots of accidents, nowhere to park, bad air quality
Economy is not good, difficult to find a job
Low pay if you have a job!
Bureacracy for everything - used to it now but what a PITA even quite simple things like getting a blood test are
Public space, like parks, is undervalued, underfunded and treated badly - lots of vandalism, dirty streets etc
The school system - some really bad teachers that just can't be sacked

Good
The food
The coffee - and even after 20 years I love popping into bars for a quick espresso with friends
The people (generally - obviously some exceptions!) are friendly even in a Northern city not known for friendliness.
The lifestyle in general - I love being close to the sea and the mountains. Never went skiing before I came here, now we can go for the day.
The language
The men! Sorry, just so much more stylish!
The school system - despite its downsides, I like the fact that there aren't many private schools here so my children go to school with a real mix of people from all walks of life.

Another good one - my commute is a walk through beautiful renaissance and medieval streets. I should appreciate it more!

Cape Town

Yes, it's hot for a few months in summer, but upper 20s and usually a breeze - maybe a few days low 30s now and again.

English is the most widely spoken second language, so although a 'minority' language it's universal.

Great quality of life, beaches, mountains, city - 1st world facilities side by side with local culture, food etc anything you can get in a UK supermarket you can get here (though of course sometimes more expensive), plus plenty of local produce such as fruit and wine (!) that is shipped to the UK so a lot cheaper here.

Housing is very cheap compared to the UK (though rapidly rising in local terms).

Semi and unskilled labour is cheap - though for me that comes with some guilt attached... having said that, I do have someone come and clean once a fortnight.

Crime - hmmmm, I've been here over 10 years, worked in townships, caught public transport etc and had very little bother. In all that time the only problem has been 2 separate (unsuccessful) attempts to steal my car. I live in an (cheap end! small 2 and 3 bedroom flats) estate with 24 hour security and a lovely, steady community feel with lots of young families. Very diverse - just about every SA culture represented, plus families from DRC, Zambia, Zimbabwe... the more you spend the more you are cut off though.

Friendships with South Africans have been difficult. I struggle with the entrenched racism, but that's helped by working in the NGO sector so my colleagues are more like minded (and more likely to have spent a significant length of time living outside SA). There are plenty of surface similarities between English heritage South Africans, but underneath that some fairly big cultural differences. But then, I'm on the more socially active, fight-inequality end of the scale in the UK as well. Each to their own.

State schools (former-white) are pretty comparable to UK state schools (including test obsessed). Private schools numerous and relatively cheap. State healthcare far worse, but private healthcare is the norm for the 'average middle class' and it's excellent.

Not the same sense of public space and public transport. You need a car (I do use public transport, but during the day and in specific areas). There are lovely places where you can wander round safely even quite late (the Waterfront, Long Street, Obs), but they are the exception rather than the rule. But once you have a family that's less of an issue anyway. You'll be taxi-ing your children round for far longer though, as they won't be able to hop on a bus or cycle over to friends with the same degree of safety.

Oh, and after I'd been here a couple of years I bought a fridge off Gumtree from a couple returning to the UK after a year.

Husband senior executive in something or other. Grown up children. They had a lovely large house in a security estate (one of the sort where each house has it's own extensive grounds).

The wife was very unhappy - no way of meeting people and making friends, whatever she planned to do she got scared off by South Africans telling her how dangerous it was... she was amazed that I was having a great time, working in a township, never felt threatened etc

I think it is a place where you can have too much money for comfort as well as too little. The best is to have enough for a reliable, not too ostentatious car and comfortable house that isn't so large it's secluded and an obvious target!

Having nursery/ school aged children or being active in your church are pretty essential if you don't have a job, or you'll be pretty lonely. Or, of course, make yourself a job through voluntary work. But it's the white middle class norm for women to either stop work or scale right down when they have children, then maybe find something part time once the children are school age, or get involved in the school or church. It's a bit 1950s in that regards. When DD (adopted here, I'm a single mother) was in grade R I was the only mother working substantial hours. The after-school club closed down the following year because there was so little demand (with a pre-school/grade R finish time of 12.30!)

I live in Malaysia

Pros:
Good schooling
Easy living
Good food
Cheap petrol
good hub for traveling to other areas of Asia

Cons:
It's a bloody long way from home
Shocking driving
casual and accepted racism everywhere
I miss seasons - it's just bloody hot all year.

Just wondering what went wrong with Canada bubble? Is it likely to be something that will cause an issue elsewhere?

We moved to Canada a couple of years ago so I thought I'd post in case it might still be an option - maybe try a different province?

A lot of the things here are specific to the very rural community we live in and definitely wouldn't apply to other provinces/areas especially BC and around Toronto.

Good: Great access to the outdoors (snowshoeing, hiking, skiing, swimming in lakes in summer, canoeing, hunting). Not many people (a plus for me but does have cons as below). Lots of sport and outside time at school and daycare (minimum 2 hours outside mandated at daycare unless weather horrendous (and by that I mean severe minus temps or blizzards not just snow or rain). Friendly community, cheap property and easy to get lots of land if you want it. Proper seasons (hot summer, snowy winter, lovely autumn - ok spring is mud season but can be nice). Relatively good healthcare, although need private insurance to top up Medicare which doesn't pay for things like drugs or hospital rooms. Education system seems good - although where we live will limit school choice.

Bad: Low population so services further away - main hospital an hour's drive, can be hard to get a gp, I can't find anyone to teach DC music, bilingual schooling available but over an hour bus ride away not in our community. Low wages and high unemployment (not an issue for us as I was sponsored to move here by my employer). Distance from family and old friends. Small community so hard to be anonymous if you want to - everyone knows your business! Work benefits and holidays worse than in UK - e.g. two weeks holiday standard and little sick pay before you go onto government employment insurance; there is now provision for 18months mat leave though.

Good luck with your move wherever you decide to go. We certainly don't regret ours.

Queensland here.
Sounds like you have friends in Aus so I won’t go into all the pros and cons but just to say the heat isn’t half as bad as I thought. I’m very pale (verging on blue!) and hate it too hot. We have 2 pale kids too. I acclimatised so well in the first year that anything under 24 feels like I need a cardie! Unless you have an outdoor job, you’ll work in an aircon environment and then have fans and or aircon at night. All shops and shopping centres have aircon. The only time it feels awful is days out somewhere like a theme park in the height of summer - but even that is catered for with shaded areas and water play for kids. 3 months of the year it’s pretty warm 32-38, 9 months of the year it’s perfect and pretty amazing 22-28.

If you’ve never visited then I would really think about a holiday over here to see what it’s like. Personally, as a heat wimp, I wouldn’t let it put me off, knowing what I do now. Or you could consider somewhere cooler in Oz like Adelaide if you want city or somewhere like Toowoomba in Qld (90 mins from Brisbane) which is a large town halfway up a mountain and has full seasons. Of course if being too far is an issue then don’t even contemplate it! But don’t rule out the entire country just because some of it gets hot! The enormity of the place is vast (I think my son worked out you can fit 11 of the uk into Queensland alone) and there’s somewhere to suit everyone.

allington we are moving to SA tomorrow. Always nice to hear someone be positive!