Anyone in Toronto?

[MrsZB]

Hi all,

My DH was interviewed yesterday for a job in Toronto. I'm on tenterhooks. We should find out 'within a week or two'.

Anyone else in Toronto? I'd love to hear experiences and information about the different suburbs and schools.

My other question is more general about the logistics. Eg if you sell your house over here- how on earth do you match up the timings?

Many thanks for any help!

I am!

Gotta run, but I'll be back with suggestions later... (It's a really beautiful day today in The 6ix so making the most of it with lunch on a patio! 😎)

lived in TO/GTA for more than 10 years, but not with kids so can't answer about schools. What area of the city will your DHs job be in?

Prices/commute times/houses/schools/community amenities vary quite widely - TO is spread out in a different way than London is.

Hi!

Thanks so much UKsounding look forward to hearing your thoughts.

NCforcake thanks - his job would be very central. I'll have a look at the map and see if there is an area name. Ideally we would like to be around a 30 min train ride in to the centre if that's possible.

Google maps seems to describe it as 'downtown Toronto'.

downtown Toronto is pretty big - are we talking Financial district? near the university of Toronto? by the Don Valley?

The one area I would actively avoid (I refused to rent there even though it's cheaper) is bounded by Bloor on the north, Church on the west, approx Queen on the south and approx Parliament on the East. Unless it's changed a lot in the last 5 years significantly I'd stay away. (The area around Jarvis/Dundas is where I always saw prostitutes).

Not to be a downer, but 30 minutes commute means your options will be a lot more limited! Unfortunately Toronto transit is nowhere near as developed as most other major North American or European cities. Train wise, there are TTC subway trains (3 lines only), and the GO train which is a commuter train, but again you'd need to be pretty close in, unless you mean 30 mins plus walking/driving to/from station time. The bus system is a lot more extensive, but can be somewhat unreliable, especially in winter. Streetcars in the downtown core, and stretching out from the core a bit on certain lines.

I used to live around High Park in a couple of different areas, which personally I liked best of all the places I've lived. Very family friendly, close to a nice "village" feel area on Bloor Street, easy commute into downtown, close to Lakeshore/the highway, close to High Park (one of the more significant green spaces in Toronto).

I always made sure to live close to a bus stop or subway station, and I didn't have a car for most of the time.

I lived in the Village (gay neighbourhood), which is right in the center of things, for a couple of years but that was when i was more or less single. Completely different vibe - trendy shops/bars nearby in the Village side, and then the regular downtown core on my other side.

I did also live off Queen Street East (Leslieville area) - not my most favourite area, a bit more run down but there are nicer parts than where I was renting. It felt further away from downtown for some reason, but it's close to things like Greektown, the Beaches.

And I lived west, as in Mississauga and Burlington. Mississauga is a huge suburb and if your husband doesn't mind the slightly longer commute, I'd seriously look there (spent my teen years there). Lots of very good areas with very good schools, and if you stay close to a major bus route or near a GO station, the commute won't be too bad.

Further out, Burlington - I lived there when I was a poor graduate working and trying to save money. But the commute can be pretty rough - train itself isn't that long, it's the additional time spent getting to the station etc. It's developed a lot more since I lived there, so the community amenities are much better.

Basically it all depends on what you're looking for, and what lifestyle you want to live. Do you plan to live in an apartment or try and rent/buy a house - single family or townhouse? Do you want to renovate? Do you plan to have a car? More than one car? etc etc. What's your budget? How old are your kids? Do you want public or private school? Do you want an IB school or a regular school state school?

House prices in the GTA have skyrocketed in the last 10-15 years, so you may get less for your money than you expect.

In NW Mississauga (Meadowvale) www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18224776/3754-ALTHORPE-Circle-Mississauga-Ontario-L5N7G4-Lisgar?utm_source=RealtorWeb&utm_medium=Share-FBListing&utm_campaign=ListingLink

I saw a listing for a really nice looking end unit townhouse in Scarborough (NE Toronto) near Markham Rd for $549,000 but can't find the link right now.

Your DH should also ask the employer if they have a real estate or relocation assistance program for new hires.

Thanks so much NCforcake.

Sorry I meant 30 mins on the actual train - happy to walk either end.

We would rent initially but buy at some point. Budget would be around 900,000 CAD. Would plan to have one car and use public transport to go into the centre. DH job nr Uni of Toronto - yes. Kids primary school age. Def no to renovate. And public school.

His work would be helpful but I don't think they have an actual person to help.

Thanks so much again :)

Hi I am in Toronto..I have one DS in primary school and the other in high school and live in High Park which is definitely a very family friendly area. I don't have a car and take the subway to work (downtown) everyday which can be pretty frustrating a lot of the time! Lots of delays during the rush hour but then again when it is running properly it takes me less than half an hour door to door which is great.

Hi costamum, thanks for your reply. Do you like it there? Are your kids happy?

costamum - i used to live near the howard park turnaround for the 506 streetcars, now that was an exercise in frustration! especially in the winter! but when it ran smoothly, it was great.

MrsZB - I'm most familiar with the west end of things, except for my short stint off Queen East. 30 mins train ride won't get you to Etobicoke, i.e. Kipling/Islington on the west end of the TTC subway line. From University to Kipling, I'd say 45 mins on average.

On the GO train you can get a little further but not including time to get down to Union station. It's 53 minutes from Union Station to Lisgar which is near that Meadowvale house listing in my PP. I used to live near Cooksville (about 32 mins) and Erindale ( 37 mins) stations, and plenty of nice family friendly areas with good schools there. On good days, I could get from U of T via University subway station to Union station in 7 minutes flat.

In terms of rentals, perhaps costamum has more updated info on that. Back when I rented (a lot!) - it's not the same system as in the UK. IMO, there are a lot less professionally managed rentals unless you are renting an apartment or condo in a building, or a townhouse with an HOA or something. Generally houses of the type you probably want are going to be private listings, where you deal directly with the landlord. You won't see the big "to let" signs outside that you do in the UK. That could have changed by now. On the other hand, landlord tenant law is quite strong in Ontario which is a good thing for you. This is a pretty good resource to get the basics: www.cleo.on.ca/en/resources-and-publications/pubs?language=en&field_legal_topic_tid_i18n=89

Thanks so much NCforcake. I really appreciate you typing all this out

Hi MrsZB
You have had a lot of good advice already, so I am not sure what I can add. I live slightly (2 subway stops) west of Costamum, and have a DD in the equivalent of yr. 7. We have been here about 11 years and the USA before that...

Many "newcomers" land in the High Park/Junction area of the West End and you will find all of your requirements in the area. (The Beach is the equivalent in the East End.) Our first hurdle was renting anywhere as we didn't have a Canadian credit record, but the company that manages "High Park Village" is accommodating and the apartments are nice and close to everything, although a bit expensive. Loads of people I know started in an apartment on Pacific Ave. and it is a bit of a rite of passage :-) Your budget wouldn't currently allow you to buy in the area, but there is talk of an imminent drop in housing prices. The public (i.e. state) schools in Toronto are generally of a good standard, and serve the average kid well. The school you attend is pretty much determined by address so if you have a preference you need to check the address. Most kids attend the TDSB.ca and all of the schools in the High Park areas and good (if a bit crowded).

Much as I love Toronto, commuting is a headache though. Traffic is pretty slow all day now and getting worse. As Costamum says, public transit is not as developed nor reliable as it would be in (for example) London. Ideally you want to have a couple of options to get home, and the further you move out of the downtown core the harder that is. I value being near the subway as it is more reliable than the streetcar and/or buses. Eventually rail here will be equivalent to the Overground, but that is realistically a decade away as they have to upgrade the tracks to one-each-way and separate passenger from freight (which has right of way for historical reasons). It is very hard to manage with one car in most cities in North America and unless you live within the reaches of the subway in Toronto it is probably not a realistic proposition. We only run one car in the winter, and it is so much easier in the summer when we have two.

One thing I would add is that you are moving to another continent. You can buy most British food, Walmart has "George" brand of clothing and English is universally spoken in Toronto. It is a wonderful, safe, vibrant city with a fantastic mix of people from different language groups and cultures. I would really hate to ever leave it and live somewhere else. However, it is a very different place to anywhere in the UK. You have to plan to leave the UK behind you and enter into/embrace a city which is not really like where you are coming from. Canadians are very friendly to a point, but I find lots of friendships are based on family/high school-type relationships and it takes a while to integrate and you have to work at it. Also, you have to embrace the weather - buy appropriate clothing and get outside and enjoy it (even if it is 34 degrees as I type). Toronto is a great city and you and your kids can have a great life.

Yes, my kids are happy here. They have made some good friends here and seem to have adapted well to the Canadian schooling system.

In terms of rental..I did have quite a few problems finding somewhere because as mentioned, I do not have a credit rating here, didn't have a guarantor and came as a student. Luckily I found someone who was happy to rent to me privately and so far it has worked out really well for me. Although it is more expensive, as UKSounding said, being near the subway is definitely something I value over being close to the bus or streetcar.

Thanks so much UKsounding and Costamum. I really appreciate your posts We are still waiting to hear....!!

Hi all,
I am looking for some advice.
My husband, myself and our 11 years old son are thinking about moving to Toronto too. We currently live in London UK. My brother in law lives just outside Toronto and he has been living there since 1993. We have been to visit a few times and every time we go to visit we say we would like to live there. However, every time we visited was during summer, so I wonder what our opinion would be during their winter. My brother in law says that winters are not as cold or as long as they used to be 24 years ago now. He says they are much warmer and the really cold temperatures last for max 3 weeks and that's all. Well, my brother in law is usually very positive and happy go lucky, so if you have any other opinion, please let me know.
Furthermore, there are three other tings I need your help with:

1. Average salary for Senior Project Managers in Investment banks. My husband has been working for investment banks for the last 16 years. I tried hard to find what his salary would be in Toronto (permanent and contractor), but it is almost impossible to fin out. If you know anything at all, please let me know. Furthermore, my job is in PA and HR as HR Coordinator. On average, what are PA's salaries in Toronto? Again 20 percent up or down in guessing is OK. As long as I have some kind of a number so that I can figure out how much we can bring home and what our living standard could be there compare to what we have in London right now,
2. Schools and where to live. We like Oakville, Bront and South Mississauga. We also like North of Bloor Street and Beaches, but we are realistic and know we cannot afford anything there right now. How do I find out if school is good? I would look around Oakville, Bronte and South Mississauga, even though my brother in law says that we should look around Uxbridge, Pickering i Stouffville as well. However, my husband likes rowing and we would really like to be near the lake, however, we are open to all options.
3. And finally, the quality of their National health Services. Is it as 'good' as current UK NHS is or is it better? We are lucky to have BUPA private in UK as well, even though we use NHS most of the time, but if we really want to see specialist within 2 or 3 days we go BUPA. We know there is no private option in Canada, so please let me know your opinion and experience regarding National Health. I have some auto immune chronic illnesses for which I need one year and 6 months check up. I wonder how would that be using national health and not private (currently most of my checks are still done using private).
4. Any other information you think I should be aware of.

Thank you very much for all your help.

Hi Cicak
First things first - have you investigated immigration issues? Do you have the right to live/ work here in Canada?

Seriously ( and really not trying to be unhelpful) - find a job(s) and that will answer Q1, limit your options for Q2 as commuting is so difficult in the GTA and as part of a recruitment package you may/may not get a health benefits package which will help answer Q3. Otherwise your questions are in the realm of "how long is a piece of string"?....

I live in another part of Canada, but my family who moved to TO report that it shows for a week in November then the snow gets filthy and you're stuck with piles of black snow everywhere till March.

I know their experience of the health service was the same as mine - it's great, very good care overall. You'll pay for dental, glasses, cosmetic surgery - other healthcare is free and of a very high quality.

Thanks very much for your answers. Immigration all investigated plus we have family living there so that is OK. Job wise: we just wanted to find out approximately how much they pay before we even apply. It does not have top be 100 percent correct, just an idea how much we can get so that we can make an approximate budget for our life over there.

I honestly do not care about snow. As long as it is not two months -30 :-))
Thank you for answering my question about health care. The more I know, the better picture I can paint and can organise ourselves better.

Cicak
Nobody on here knows what your or your DH's CV looks like, what your experience is etc. If you want to know how much you might earn you need to do the same as you would in the UK to find out - Activate your industry connections, send you CV to some head hunters and see what they say etc.
My (limited) understanding is that HR is tough to get into in TO atm and if you don't have connections and Canadian experience/knowledge you may struggle getting something at the level you are used to. There seems to be an influx of fund manager-types from London over the last few months but all the ones I know are intra-transfers. No idea about project managers, and no-one is saying what they earn.

We can definitely have a 2 or 3 week stretch of constant -30C with wind chill. Last winter was mild and we didn't. I actually find the partial thaw/refreeze thing tiresome because it makes everywhere slippery, and it is a grey landscape in the winter which contrasts with a very green city in the summer. In general Toronto isn't as cold as other cities in Canada, but it is colder than anywhere in the U.K. Appropriate clothing, getting out and active, and forward-looking attitude (until late April/early May) get you through.

I find health-care far better than the UK, but we have great health-care benefits through work. YMMV Education (private and public) is mediocre - fine for average kids but poor for the rest.
You can't realistically commute from Stouffville if you work in the downtown core. Pickering would be hell also. A lot of people who live in Oakville and Mississauga work in Mississauga not Toronto - US companies have their HQs there. Once the GO rail system improves (in about a decade) you could commute comfortably from places like Oakville into Bay Street - I know that people do now, but it isn't fun.

Step 1 is to see if you can get appropriate jobs first and then you can see what the picture looks like. I am happy to help once you have some parameters. When people post in this area, they are often asking about intra-transfers to other countries. You can't underestimate how much easier it is to move to a different country when you have a job, relocation package, relocation agent with local knowledge of housing etc. Moving without a job takes years and years to get visas/work permits (even if you do have a BIL in Oakville) is very expensive and you are basically starting from the ground up again - think early 20's in your 40's. I would respectfully suggest that if you have an 11 yr old, the plan is a non-starter until you actually have employment with a company that is going to deal with immigration paperwork for you and help with the move.

The thing about snow in a cold climate like Toronto though (from what I hear, I live in the more mild part of Canada), it's not pretty fluffy stuff that entertains then then disappears. You have to dress for it, everyone has to have snow boots, it gets filthy in the city, if you have a house (versus flat) you have to shovel it (repeatedly), your hall fills up with all the snow gear. It goes on for months (well, the mounds of black filth do, and the ice).

You'd adjust, but it will be different. I wouldn't want to live from the coast for this reason.

@lizzieoak True that! Although I am trying hard not to think about snowsuits and boots, mess etc. until I get the kid back to school. Still enjoying clearing up the puddles from wet swimsuits left on the floor.