Stockholm or Silicon Valley - what would you do?

[HowMuchDoWeNeed]

I have two job opportunities but can't decide which to take. We have one 3-year-old to consider. Currently live in the UK and are comfortable and happy but it seems like a nice time for a change.

Stockholm - offer is SEK 780,000/year. Is this enough to live in the city centre, with a 2 (or 3?) bed flat and still have enough to come back to the UK a few times a year, and not have to be too frugal?

Palo Alto - offer is $144,000/year. Friend has told me this is not enough to live comfortably (we'd like a 3 bed house, to make the most of all that space, for the move to feel worthwhile).

This does boil down to money and I know it's hard to answer, but does anyone with experience in either of these places know? What sort of lifestyle would the above salaries afford us?

Thanks in advance!

"But your DH and DC would live a very happy life ( and you too at weekends)." Laptopwieldingharpy would they? One thing I was worried about is them being bored/isolated - although Sweden has a reputation for being hard to penetrate socially, it seems like living in the burbs of California might be really boring? Is it? I feel like at least in Stockholm there will be things to do - not loads, but enough - I worry that the valley is a bit of a cultural void. V happy to be convinced otherwise though!

Anyone else - care to comment on what I should be asking for? Is 200K more like it (I might be able to push to that) or am I wasting my time (if we need more like $250K which is probably unlikely)?

"I would think it essential that your employer find/help with accommodation, also with setting up utility contracts and so" I think so too strugglinginsweden but I guess what I'm asking is, would they? Do they, as standard? I don't want to get there and then make a nuisance of myself, asking for the kind of help that an employer doesn't usually offer. (I am about to ask them directly, but want to get a feel for what is "normal".) If one of my employees moved to England was asking me for help finding a flat, I'd tell them to woman up and get on Rightmove.com!

GetOutMyCar thanks for this. I am a mix - I don't like rushing around but I do like feeling as though there is life and energy happening around me. That is why we want to live in the city centre. I'm a bit worried about housing stock - is it all very old, I wonder, as we live in a newbuild here, and have become very reliant on the lift ... don't fancy dragging a stroller, toddler and shopping up the stairs to a tiny attic flat.

I have a friend who used to live in Stockholm and she talked about how hard it was to find somewhere to live and that was with a Swedish partner. I think you would need your employer to help with that but I would expect that as part of an expat package.

My mistake. I thought the appeal would be great weather and active outdoors lifestyle. If you want european style easy access to arts and culture why even consider california for lifestyle?

A lot of the people I know came on a package from employers for a set period of time, some stayed longer, some didn't. The main company I can think of is IKEA. They have liaison staff who deal will the logistics. Finding accommodation, school places etc. If you come here not speaking the language with no credit history then it will be difficult. If you look at blocket.se you could see what's on offer in Stockholm. Small and expensive (about 100m' for SEK15-20 000)
If you are planning on only a year or two then Stockholm would work for a while.
GetOutMyCar I have heard Swedes called a lot of things but Swedes genuinely care about other people in a quiet, calm gentle way is a first for me
I love my solitude, peace and quiet too, but when I do venture into the human habitat I expect just that .....
I think it's great that you love it here.

It's snowing in Stockholm, just saying...

I mean it's snowing since yesterday

I live in Sweden and agree with GetOutMyCar about Swedes that they "genuinely care about other people in a quiet, calm gentle way".
Sweden is very child, working parent friendly with great life work balance. But Stockholm is an extremely difficult place to find rented accomodation and I don't think an employer would think it was unusual to ask for help.
When you rent or buy a flat heating, water and internet are often included in the monthly payment, so you must check what is included. Often the only utillity you have to sort out is electricity.
You could take a look at www.hemnet.se to get an idea of what housing is like in Sweden.
And yes it has been snowing here today and I'm about 90 miles north of Stockholm

Sorry Laptopwieldingharpy reading back my comment looks snappy - I didn't mean it to - genuinely curious about what life for a stay at home parent would be like in the area. I sort of imagined it might be a bit boring for someone from out of town? But I honestly have no idea!

As to why we are considering it - my husband likes the idea of the warm weather and having a big car. I am less convinced!

strugglinginsweden thank you for the link. Will have a look. I hadn't even thought about credit history. How depressing that these things aren't transferable. In this day and age!

TabithaLark thank you also for the link. Am working a half day tomorrow so can noodle about online looking at places.

I can't believe it's already snowing... wow!

I expect you'd need help finding somewhere to rent in the US too. You'd have no credit history so you might find it difficult to persuade landlords to rent to you. It'll be an issue getting a car too unless you can pay cash.

We moved to Silicon Valley in August

Things to consider would be :-

1. Housing - very expensive, but doable on your salary. There is a lot of competition for rental properties and without credit history you might struggle, but there will be something out there
2. Groceries - very expensive compared to the UK, but comparable to increased salary
3. Credit history - you go from 'hero to zero' as credit history not transferable. We were advised to get a bank loan and credit cards to build up a history over here
4. Schools - sorry can't help there we don't have children
5. Healthcare - this is a big expense every month, even with the employer supplement
6. Car Insurance - premiums can be huge, though we have found one company that will take our UK driving history and no claims into account, which has helped loads
7. TV - this is hugely expensive over here, we are making do with Netflix, Amazon and Apple TV
8. Driving - you will need to sit your driving tests over here and get a US licence - I think it is within 6 months of arriving
9. OH working - what sort of visa will you have? Will your OH be able to work? What if circumstances change?

10. Employment Card - I am here on an L2 visa (my H holds the L1). In order to work here I have to have an employment card - this takes a minimum of 3 months to get. You cannot legally work without one of these

Let me know if you have any other questions. Also feel free to PM me

DH worked in Stockholm for a year, and lived there during the week. We thought about moving but decided we are happier where we are (rural -ish France) so he commuted weekly.

The good thing about the high taxes is that your health is covered by them. So no need for insurance. He paid something like a 100 euro (equivalent) excess for the year.

I am actually not sure how much he earned in SEK as his salary was fixed in gbp at around 110,000 a year. He rented a 2-bed flat in Kingsolmen (sp?) - nice part of town - with a colleague for around 1600 euros (equivalent) a month. He did pay a lot of tax (and is due a big rebate) but on that salary we had no problem effectively running two homes (big mortgage here in France) and covering his travel expenses.

I visited a few times and like the city, and getting out to the islands an hour or so away is lovely. He found the dark winter days (only 5 hours daylight) though but spring and summer were lovely.

Hth

'The good thing about the high taxes is that your health is covered by them. So no need for insurance. He paid something like a 100 euro (equivalent) excess for the year.' True that. It's pretty good! Dentist is hell expensive though.

Thank you all so much again.

IceMaiden73 this is all very helpful. Do you really have to sit your driving test again? Wow!

It would be an L1 visa I think. Main problem is that I think opportunities for my partner would be slim.

MountainDweller this would be ideal - travelling there every week. I don't think they will go for it though.

God, this has been dragging on forever. I need to make a decision REALLY soon. I think the US is out. Election results awful and my heart isn't in it. But still willing to be convinced!