Sydney secondment.

[smellsofelderberries]

What has your relocation package been when seconding overseas? DH has an offer on the table with his firm for a 2 year secondment in Sydney, which is;

• Flights to and from Sydney before and after the secondment- there is no mention of trips back to the UK so assume that's not included.

• $1050 'settling in' cash for expenses (apparently this is also to cover expenses such at deposit + first months rent and furnishing said rental )

• An 8 cubic m surface shipping container (hence why new furniture will be needed as that's no where near enough space for furniture!)

• 2 weeks in a serviced apartment when we arrive.

• An agent of some sort (relocation agent maybe?) though not sure how useful that will be for us as I am Aussie so have bank accounts and medicare cover, no DC yet so schools/daycare no issue (but I'm due with our first in November, move will be in August).

Aaaand- that's it. I'm slightly shocked TBH. The salary on offer is similar to what he earns here, would take home a touch more per month so we'll have a similar standard of living to here in London. No mention of benefits either- here he gets £10k on top of salary for private health/car lease options etc. Obviously if that's not included (again-no mention of it in offer letter) then that's a huge thing.

We're going to sit down and eek out expenses but can't really consider moving on this package as we'll be massively out of pocket. My earning potential also drops a lot in the move- I'm a nanny so have the option of taking baby to a full time job with me here in London and that doesn't really exist over there. Figure we should be looking at more like;

• Slightly more shipping space so we can bring a little furniture.
• Much larger amount of cash as will need rental deposit, car deposit, new furniture.
• 1 month in serviced apartment.
• A clause to be added that any children we have whilst on secondment also be entitled to the same flights as we are, on return.

DH initially approached the Sydney office about the move so I don't want to be too demanding, but he is also bringing a very valuable skill set to an area of the firm which they are aggressively trying to expand. Am I being reasonable? (And have I missed any massive expenses?!)

Hi for reference we had 40ft container for everything, cash lump sum (to pay for breaking mortgage) 6 months rent, private health as state one we had to wait for, plus a 3 month stay in a condo, flights, 'trip for a reccy" all expenses paid. We were still out of pocket with 1 car to sell and 2 to buy (North America) replacing tvs, coffe machines, lawnmowers was eyewatering. I don't know what profession he's in but that's pretty dire as a package. For 2 years it's worse too, having a car for 2 years?

The package sounds terrible.

For comparison we get/got:
Pre-move visit
20 foot shipping plus small air freight plus storage in uk for duration
Much larger cash lump sum
One business class return flight a year for each family member
2 months in fully serviced apartment
Our rent here paid in full for the duration
Preschool/international School fees paid in full
Fully comp medical
A salary adjustment for cost of living/exchange rate differences
A car
U.K. Holidays and employment rights (including paternity leave)
Tax equalisation on all the above benefits

We were also able to reallocate bits of the budget to some extent.

Having said all that, if your plan is to move back to Australia anyway then it makes sense to do it this way even if the package isn't great because it's better than bearing all the cost yourself.

I also suggest seriously reconsidering shipping your things, 20ft container is the full contents of our thee bedroom home inc 2 x 50inch tvs, large side board, large welsh dresser, dining table six chairs, 2 plus 4 seater sofa, outdoor furniture set, trampoline, 3x bikes and all belongings for family of 4 (dryer but no white goods). If you are definitely not viewing this as a potentially permanent move I wouldn't bother taking all your stuff for a few yrs. Quotes for one way uk-nz is around £4k

I'm in Sydney and I know quite a few nannies do take their own baby with them to work. They're called "mummy nannies" here. So you probably could work if you want to.

Just wondering where in the uk you are now? We're in Sydney and we pay a really low rent and IRA still $3000 per month. So if you are on a similar package here as you are there, unless you currently live in London, it's going to work out "less" iykwim? Cost of living is so much higher than UK.

I would want at least triple his UK salary to move out. I've had to restart my career completely and I got that plus $10,000 plus super and tbh couldn't have managed any other way

One consideration when thinking about taking the furniture. Our container took months to arrive and clear customs, so we still had to buy/ rent furniture, fridge, washing-machine, bed, mattress, chairs, sheets, towels, ... you name it. and the restrictions about bio-safety are a true madness, so for two years, I wouldn't really bother. Just take clothes and buy the basics at Ikea, K-Mart. The only thing I would bring are nice wool blankets which are impossible to find and be prepared winter can be very bitter and cold. Last year was shocking, so far this year we are on the opposite side, and having the warmest autumn recorded in years.

In our package, house is paid for two years, school is paid as long as we are on the 457, health insurance is paid, one trip home per year for the whole family, car allowance and as much container space we needed.

We have been here almost two years, now, and Sydney is way more expensive than I expected, even after being told it was expensive. Eating out, cinema, even the kid's activities, hairdresser ($$$$$).

Rent vary enormously from suburb to suburb. Do you have an idea where you will be living/ working? Where we are, rent for a normal house without pool is $1100 per week.

Unless you are near a train line or the CBD, public transport is useless, so you will need two cars. Used cars are far more expensive than Europe, and in NSW registration is around 500$ /year and you also need what is called green slip which is a kind of second insurance ($500) on top of your insurance ($500), so consider around $1500/year just to allow your car on the street.

Lady, we are in London now so don't imagine too much of a price differential. Basic bills seem comparable, I've done identical shops like for like on Coles and it's much of a muchness. We're looking at 2 bed flats for up to $750 p/w in the inner west, which is cheaper than our mortgage currently.

Pisssssed, so if someone was on a salary of £50k here you would want $300k in Australia? Because that's what your post insinuates. Or do you mean $150k?

Crunchy, that's really interesting and good to know if I decided I wanted to start working again. Thank you.

Firie, we won't be shipping any 'everyday' furniture except for our bed, but we will buy a guest bed and sleep on that until ours turns up. Can you ship duvets? Otherwise yes, furniture will come from IKEA and the like. We are aiming to live close to the CBD so DH will either be a short ferry or bus ride in to work (therefore saving massive commuting costs compared to his yearly travel card in London). DH isn't a confidant driver and only drives when it's absolutely needed, so we will only need one car. Those expenses don't sound too bad car wise- I usually budget about £1000 a year for the on road costs of our car here- £700 insurance (dodgy London postcode), £100-£150 residents parking permit (or more now for the service charge on our parking space), £40 for MOT and £130 for road tax. Another £300ish a year for services. We're budgeting to spend about $25k on a car (Nissan, Mazda or similar). Not to mention how bloody cheap petrol is over there!

We have an embarrassingly large 'entertainment' expenditure every month, which will naturally reduce once baby is born and we have no babysitters who live locally but even so, we find it rare to walk out of a restaurant for under £40 (£60 when I was drinking) and eat out about 3 times a week. We found $80-$120 for a meal out was really doable when visiting (sometimes for much better food-I could live on bay bugs and Sydney rock oysters!) The lattes in my favourite coffee shops run about £2.70-£2.90 here. I think lattes there were about $4.50? If so, then DH's daily work coffee will be about $330 cheaper a year in Sydney

DH talked to the Sydney office and what he's been offered is the bog-standard relocation package to Sydney and definitely not a fob-off offer, and it is up for negotiation, so we're going to see how far we get.

Thanks again for all the help!

On our way here, we came with British Airways as we could have in economy 2 x 23 kgs bagages + 23kg in-cabin + normal handbag, so a total of 69 kgs per person.
British Airways is more expensive on some dates, but as the company was paying, I didn't really care and managed to bring quite a bit of stuff.

I said triple his salary so $150,000 and you wouldn't live like a king on that tbh.

It depends on the industry sector as to whether you'd get that, my DP is on triple figures here in the uk and would be on the same numbers out there, but my figure would triple plus $10,000.

Pissed aud$ 150,00 isnt triple his salary though is it?

OP he needs to push harder for a better relo package. I work in HR and that package is for someone who has 'requested the move' i.e. his firm thinks they're doing him a favour.

The economy isn't great in Aus, but if they do desperately need his skill set he has a lot of bargaining power. Have they seriously tried to recruit locally as it reads to me that they think the can get this cheaper locally.

Good luck with the negotiations and relo

That's what I was thinking Diggers, glad I'm not the only one! We saw a heap of DH's work friends yesterday, most of whom are on secondment from Australia/NZ and they said the package we've been offered is similar what they were offered for 2 years in London, so I think DH's work is just a bit crap these days! I know some of the partners at his work who spent a few years in Singapore etc back in the 90's/early 00's had amazing packages, but I think it's just a sign of the times. We will still negotiate what we can though

Pisssssed, we don't live like kings here either, so I'm not sure why we would expect to make a huge lifestyle leap with a move to another high COL city. We will have a similar quality of life financially, which is all we wanted, we aren't moving to make our fortunes. It might be a huge boost for DH's career, in which case we might end up very comfortable. At worst we'll move back after the 2 years and he'll have 'lost' 2 years worth of progression, but what we will have gained emotionally from 2 years close to my family will make up for it. I can understand people wanting to be financially compensated for moving so far from their entire family, but that's not the case for us.

Sorry I don't know what his salary is I was using the for example figures of £50,000. All I can say is we struggled on $150,000 in WA as a family and we manage on a bit less than £40,000 here. Not a case of being compensated more feeding the kids.

I relocated to Sydney back in 2008 - it was a permanent move with a management consultancy. The package I was offered was very much the same as the one you have outlined, although I ended up with about 5 weeks in a serviced apartment as the property market was tricky to navigate.

We didn't own our own home, or have kids at the time (we were in our late 20s) so we just packed a suitcase and went - had to foot the bill for our own rental/car/furniture/health insurance etc. and didn't think anything of it as we were just grateful for the opportunity. In hindsight I would have negotiated for more support!

Pisssssed, I get what you're saying. Are you in London though? £40k in London for a family won't get you very far at all either. I suspect that the price seemed so much more because housing is so much more expensive compared to a lot of parts of the U.K. £50k tripled is actually $300k AUD, as £50k=$100k, that's all Diggers and I meant.

Good to know tiger, are you still out there?

Well no £50,000 tripled is £150,000 so I don't mean then turn that into dollars I mean you don't want £50,000 times 2 ie the exchange rate you want three times that. Does that make sense, so what ever his uk salary is times that by 3 and that's what you want in dollars as a minimum.
The inital support really does make or break the move as does the visa you get, presumably you'd all have permanent residency ?

Yeah I think you are a little naive. We were the same!
Similarly to you the move was a bonus for us in terms of family circs and therefore your dhs employer won't pay more than they think they have to. Expat packages definitely don't exist the way they did in the 90s/00s.
Your dh won't get a benefit package as this doesn't really exist in aus. You will need to pay for your own health insurance and car and claim back against tax as relevant.

Agree with pissed off. Definitely x3 his UK salary (or x1.5 the UK value if easier to understand) especially as you will be losing your salary, otherwise you'll experience a serious standard of living drop.

We really did it tough for the first couple of years here (despite the x3salary) . However it's paid off. Demonstrating commitment to career dh has ended up with a seriously good promotion, I'm also working now (which I wasn't planning to) and our income has more than doubled since we arrived meaning we are v comfortable and will potentially have a family home in each country within the next year.

But we totally had to give up our expectations on the relocation, and we didn't end up with a lot more than you to start with (more shipping but we were a family of 4,nearly 5!, and 8 weeks accomm). We just worked out that the salary was enough and would work.

Good luck :)

Nope, we were back after a year as I got made redundant (after all that!!) and we decided that both of our careers would be better off back in the UK, particularly DH who had only just qualified as a lawyer then, with several years work experience and a two year training contract - for some reason the law society in Oz was saying he'd have to go back to law school to qualify out there.

I got made redundant 3 times in three years, whilst I loved where we lived, it certainly wasn't a career move tbh

Moving to Oz did us no favours financially but it certainly helped career wise (and gave our children citizenship). OP you might be familiar with the ATO and all the tax rules/set offs/negative gearing advantages etc, my only advice is to make sure you get up to speed on these and quickly....it appears there are significant advantages to borrowing money, investing in rental property or shares and then offsetting the interest payments against profits, or offsetting losses against tax bills.

We were never up to speed on this and ended up paying way more tax than we would have done in the UK because we didn't borrow money (totally against our nature but there you go!) and my DH got shares as his bonuses (BIG mistake in Oz and they are treated as income at the point they vest and then you get handed a higher rate tax bill.....)....get lots of info on this, your benefits and bonuses etc.

Thanks again all. DH has signed! They've agreed to refund costs of resettling once we're there, they wouldn't give a figure, but said they would refund 'reasonable' expenses like new basic furniture and rental deposit. No buying diamond studded loo brushes and trying to charge them We are getting flights back yearly (DH made sure this covered little one too in case we want to book them a seat when they get a bit older but are still under 2). They've agreed to up our shipping space if not everything fits into 8cubic m, and if we haven't found anywhere to live in the 2 weeks they'll be putting is up in a serviced apartment then they just extend it on a weekly basis. So, we've basically been given with we asked for!

DH has just been told his bonus for the year (which is much more than he was expecting), so between that and cashing in some untaken holiday, we're going with a decent sum to get us started there without touching our savings here.

And now we have 8 weeks until we leave Wish us luck!!

ifink, thanks for the info. We don't think we'll be able to get any negative gearing on our London flat, but we'll dive into all of that sort of thing once we're there.

Fantastic! Good luck! You will have an awesome time.

Good stuff smells! I'm only a little bit jealous, would have loved to have gone home when dd1 was little

A bit late to the party but good luck Smells! I'm currently midway through a two year secondment from my London office to the Sydney office and it's been great! Package was different to yours but now you've signed up to it then I won't offer any advice on that front!

However, if you have any other questions then drop me an email - the logistics at the time with two small children was tricky but it all worked out and I love my role here. Slightly nervous that the two years are nearly up and I don't want to return...

Great that they've stepped up their offer smells. I'm rudely jealous, I love Sydney and could live there in a jiffy.