If you're a UK national living in the EU.......

[doradoo]

What are your thoughts on the 'Brexit'? Are you planning on taking any special action - are you worried about your future?

We live in Germany and have been considering DE citizenship - as we can have both at the moment - but am worried with today's announcement of referendum date that we may not have enough time to implement it.

What do you think it will mean for you and what do you plan to do?

Life yes, but a) not everybody has been in their EI country for 5+ years and b) even if you have, those from outside the EU currently need work visas that are pretty tough to get and healthcare is also an issue in some countries.

dreame, permanent residents from outside the EU do not need work visas. They have almost all the rights of a citizen of the country of which they are a permanent resident.

Dreame, non EU nationals with 5+ permanent residents DON'T need work visas!!!!!!!

Permanent resident status isn't automatic just for having lived in a country though - at least not for current non EU nationals. There are hoops to jump through and tests to take.

I'm also in Germany and have been here for 16 years, plan is to apply for citizenship. I only haven't done it yet as my DH has just gone self employed so doesn't have the requisite salary evidence to show and I am about to start maternity leave and also will not be earning. Bad timing on our part but I will sort it out when I have time for all that on mat leave!

I won't be able to vote as over 15 years out of the country but I would encourage anyone who hasn't yet registered to go the proxy vote path not postal based on past experience of only once getting postal vote papers in time.

I'm still hoping it's going to be a stay vote though...

lifeisunjust repeating a claim over and over doesn't make it true. Can you link to any evidence for your assertion?

Been living in an EU country for 11 years now, was planning to move to another one in a year or two.

Obviously that may now not be possible. We are very much on hold until we know which way things are going.

schwab yes that's true. But that's as it should be, no? If you live in a country then you should expect to learn the language and possibly pass a culture test or whatever such nonsense they've dreamt up.

widow each country has its own specific guidelines. I am a non-EU national who is also a PR of an EU country (not the UK) so I'm speaking from my own experience. My residence permit states that I have free entry to the labour market and no work permit is required.
In the UK I guess the equivalent is Indefinite Leave to Remain, no? And you don't need a work permit if you have ILR. It's all you need in order to be able to live and work in the UK.

I suppose that, having jumped through visa hoops in a number of countries, I don't see it as a huge big scary thing for Brits. Massive hassle and inconvenience, yes. But life-changing disaster? For the vast majority, no.

Liara depending on the country in which you're living and plan to move to, you could potentially apply for PR and thus get EU PR and so move to the other country.

Many countries (eg the UK) are not part of the EU PR deal but some are so you may be in luck anyway.

Nameage indeed, each country has its specific rules, I've not seen a blanket 5+ years rule, which is why I asked.

Ah, yes then ISWYM. I think EU citizens can get one in France after 5 years? In the Netherlands it's 5 years for almost everyone, you need to pass language/culture tests though. The UK used to be 4 years but I've no idea now.

To the OP, as long as your visa application is in process then you should be more than fine. I assume you speak German? Look up what proof you need (in my country of residence you need take specific tests) and other documentation and put an application for PR in. You will not need to worry about work visas/proving no EU national can do your job. I doubt Brits abroad have anything to fear in the event of a Brexit anyway but I am very familiar with visa fears! You have my sympathy. But I really don't think this is anything that visa fees and a mountain of paperwork can't solve

NameAgeLocation yes of course you should be able to pass a language test to live in a country (although there should be exceptions - I'd bet there are a large minority of "native speakers" who couldn't). People saying it will make no difference are not being truly honest.

I've lived in Germany 8 years and will be applying for a German passport - I will need to take a language and a naturalisation test. It all costs money - not vast amounts but will come to a couple of hundred € for something I should have no need of if the UK stopped arsing about and just stayed in the EU. We have already phoned the local immigration office and been told it will go straight through (helps that I have lived on one small rural location, at the same address, for the whole 8 years).

I think the 5 years thing is wrong/ not applicable to all countries - I am sure 8 years residence is required for Germany. Also I have no idea what this "5 year permanent residence card" is - I've never had any kind of card, I think that is probably local to one country, presumably the one which the person who keeps mentioning it knows. We register with our local area or city but there is no issuing of cards and it is simply the same thing local people have to do - everyone in Germany has to register their address with the local council or city.

That's not always all there is to it, and anyway I'd bet a lot of the people who have retired to Spain, for example, couldn't pass a Spanish language test, and couldn't afford to return to the UK any more unless they are heavily subsidised with council housing/ housing benefits... They are almost certainly going to be a greater burden to the UK than Easter EU economic migrants of working age who work and pay back into the system if there is a flow of people back to where they came from in the event of a Brexit...

You will not need to worry about work visas/proving no EU national can do your job

That is an absolutely massive "providing" ... certainly doesn't apply to me, I do exactly the same job as local German colleagues...

Schwäbisch the residency rules were different in the past in Germnay. When I first came in 1999 I had to apply for an Aufenthaltserlaubnis (this was a paper ID card with photo) which was granted for 5 years as I had a permanent job. After those five years I could apply for "unbefristet" or permanent residence and as I was still in employment it was granted. By then there were no longer any papers for EU citizens and it's just noted with the local authorities. I think the info above is just a mix of old and country specific stuff.

You are right re German citizenship, you need to be resident for at least 8 years. Children born here now also can have it if at least one parent has been here for 8 years. This hasn't always been the case either but a lot has changed in the last few years.

Schwab I said "proving", not "providing".

I think I'll bow out now. You seem determined to insist that I as a non-EU person couldn't possibly have a clue about the struggles and costs of living in the EU as a non-EU national. If you don't appreciate my help and support then fine, I'll go elsewhere. I'll cry you a river over the costs you might potentially be faced with which I have been paying for the last 15 years.

Also you make me snigger never having heard about "visa cards". Well duh, you're from the EU, you've never had to have one. Your passport has been all you've needed. But as I said you know it all apparently, you don't need my help. Hiding this thread now.

Don't panic (Dad's Army style) but vote early and vote often ;)

On a serious note I am trying not to worry but I do
Put simply we cannot know what will happen after an OUT vote.

Based on the sample of DH who is as French establishment as they get it won't be pretty. We've had grumbling of "de Gaulle was right, we should never have let them in" already.

The vote this summer would be followed by 2 years of negotiations. Not with the EU as such but with 27 governments some of which including France and Germany will have elections coming up. And EU apparatus itself. And they will be spitting mad.

I fear they won't run along the lines of what's in the best interest of all. "Pour encourager les autres" anyone who doesn't contemplate their own referendum would try to make it as painful for the UK as possible.

And soon enough you will enter the tit for tat
Imagine the UK government moves against migration from EU 8 +2 and given that EU doesn't allow discrimination among member states in bilateral treaties
Whatever measures are introduced to say Ruritanians in the UK may be repeated against Brits in France

Right now we get residency after 5 years as EU citizens. But we won't count as EU citizens within 2 years of the vote. Then who knows what residency rules wil apply. And they will be applied according to domestic politics of each country.

So I encourage all who can to register to vote and get your friends to do so to

It's easy now. The trickiest bit is getting a British passport holder as countersignatory if there are none around

If you are registered make sure they have the correct address. And keep registration current - you need to reconfirmed each year

And do it now

It took me almost 3 months to register at last election and then it took my borough so long to send the ballot papers that I didn't get them in time to vote :/

For those of you in Germany planning to get citizenship, we did it last year (British/Irish background).

"It takes 10 days apparently doradoo once you have the have the Deutsche Test for Zuwanderer (which you might possibly be allowed to skip if you have any recognised certificates, esp if they are Goethe Institute ones, showing you are already at or above B1 - or you can take the test at a Goethe institute or through VHS) and the naturalisation test .

We phoned and checked a couple of weeks ago and were told its straight forward and the paperwork takes 10 days. As long as you've been here 8 years its pretty automatic and should be easily done before June even including taking the tests."

Wait a minute, how long it takes depends ENORMOUSLY on what part of the country you are in, and how overworked they are right now. On paper we were shoo-in candidates (middle-class family with a handful of degrees between us, lived here for over 20 years, DH works for the state, kids born here and completely bilingual, excellent language skills we could prove with GI certificates, home owners, etc). In practice it took 9 MONTHS from first meeting the Beamte and registering interest to finally getting the citizenship, then a further five weeks to get our Ausweise because the Bürgerämte here are in crisis. They wanted to know everything about us and we had to get a whole swathe of pointless documents (eg a confirmation from our Standesbeamte that we hadn't divorced in the last decade ). Then there was the further pointlessness of the Einbürgerungstest, which is only held on certain dates at the Volkshochschule (I revised like a right swat and got 33 out of 33 in 10 minutes; DH did nothing and got 31 out of 33 in 15 minutes; DD1 was still under 16 so didn't need to do it). So imagine these kind of circumstances, then imagine what's going to happen in the event of a Brexit: thousands of Brits applying all at once. I suspect it will be a whole lot longer than a few weeks at that point. Oh, the admin costs were about 550 for two adults and an under-16yo, plus an extra hundred for getting a few certs and doing the silly test. The money wasn't the issue; it was the fact that it was a right royal pain in the arse.