Moving to France

[lavendersun]

So, we will be moving to France in Dec 2016/Jan 2017. We have lived all over the world but have had some relocation help from employers in the past. This will be DIY and a long term move (8 years).

DD will be 10, we need to be somewhere near a good school (although willing to home ed if there is a decent local group, am aware of the law surrounding HE).

Have a year to research/get it right. May consider renting for a year.

Can anyone direct me to the good expat forums. Normandie, Picardy, Loire Valley, Champagne regions good from a work POV right now.

I live in the one of those regions. Feel free to PM me.

I presume work is in Paris? Is it not an option to live there? I would highly recommend it!

I find anglo info a good forum. It's done by region. There's also some really good FB groups if you use that.

Thank you . Work involves travelling internationally for two weeks or a month at a time. No actual work in France.

Our life includes horses and dictates country living, not too far from a decent town. We don't want to live in a city at all.

I will head over to Anglo info. Thanks.

Also think of having a look on the forum on the frenchentree site.

If you are living in France, then that is where you will have to pay tax and cotisations - the French equivalent of NI. As an employee, the contribution rate is 22.06%, and the employer's contributions work out at around 50%.

If you are unable to get a carte vitale by any other means, then you will need to pay for 100% private health insurance, which is expensive as it's illegal for French citizens, and, as a result, there isn't any market for it.

If you do have a carte vitale which covers about 70% of the costs, then a top up for a family of 2 adults and 1 child will cost in the region of 2000€ a year. You might think it isn't worthwhile, but about 7 years ago dd was in hospital for 10 days. 1 blood test, a couple of sessions with a psychologist, and the tablets she took with her. The total cost was over 8000€.

Unless you have really good building skills, don't think of getting a doer-upper. We did, and it cost us 100K€ in restoration costs, and, if we're lucky, we'll get about 50k€ of that back when we sell. At the worst, we won't get any of it back.

Thanks tb, we actually have worldwide private healthcare for life courtesy of an old career with a very small deductible - so I need to look into what else we might need if anything.

No doer-uppers here, we have done that in the UK and in other foreign lands - we don't actually want to spend our time doing up houses any more!

We are currently seeking tax advice, DH's work is not at all in France, we will still own a home in the UK but the nature of his work is completely overseas and when he is at home he is not at work. We could choose to live anywhere as he just gets on a plane.

He will definitely not manage to be resident in France for 183 days. Added to which we have an income from a non EU country - all very complicated and something that an international tax advisor is on the case of - such a headache.

I will have a look at the forum you suggested.

I'm in the Somme if you want to PM me.

So much flexibility, you coukd be anywhere really....
Make a specific wish list! Why did you pick France and those areas?
What kind of school? Local? IB?

Make sure you understand the health insurance costs before you move! If you are not employed in France it can be VERY expensive.

Why France out of interest? If you can live anywhere why not the UK? Rural France is very tricky ime. Do you all speak French? I live in one of those regions as I said above. I always advise try-outs in winter!

Why? Because we want to! Easier than Italy and closer to ageing parents.

Good time for us to buy another house before we are too old, good time for a move with DD.

We want to be near a town, choice will be led by schooling choice.

We have lived on three continents, we don't really want to live in England forever. As for tricky, central South America was tricky, I can't think that we will find France tricky.

No healthcare concerns and two French speakers.

I am looking for helpful advice about schooling and possibly renting unfurnished to begin with.

Hi for rentals I would suggest leboncoin.fr it's fab for everything.

I am not sure about the health stuff I would get some advice. We live in France but my husband works in Switzerland. Last year the law changed making it illegal to have private health insurance. Now everyone is automatically conscripted onto cmu at around 7% of your gross income (this is calculated using all income including rental from overseas property). Cmu only covers 70% of your medical costs so you will also need a very expensive complémentaire.

You will have to pay tax on your income. It is all self assessment online very easy. (Although you will have to go to the tax office for the paperwork for calculating tax if your employer is outside of france as assuming it is a country with a double tax agreement you pay just an income tax with the equivalent of ni etc payed in the country of which you are employed.

The health thing is very contentious at the moment and I am not sure if it would affect you but you should check.

France is great but the beurocracy takes some patience!

I am not in any of the areas that you are interested in but have kids in french school system and have rented and bought here. Have also been following the health stuff for the last year so if you want to pm me I am happy to answer your question.

I don't know anyone who successfully chooses long term to live in France and school their child there and work "overseas, all over the world" without finding it too hard to see 70%+ of what they earn go to the French state!!! There is a reason that anyone wealthy is in Switzerland or on a Jet/Yacht! They are not putting down roots in France!!! ISF, social charges... possibly highest taxed country in the world. It's not just an "tax headache", it's insoluble, and that's why many very wealthy have tried before and then decide against it for the long term.

If you speak French that is great

're renting I recommend seloger and leboncoin. Rentals for families are hard to come by out of big cities so good idea to start looking now.

're schooling - are you planning to go all french? I can give you lots of advice on that but need specifics. My own DC are in french schools with sections internationales which I cannot recommend highly enough. However schools like those are rarely found outside of cities. Please feel free to pm me anytime.

For schools, AAWE publishes a Guide to Education in France for bilingual or anglophone children. MESSAGE is a good forum, and would include homeschooling links - minimal annual subscription.

I am not seeking tax advice guihailin, there are some places in the world with tax treaties that apply in France. One of our incomes is from such a place. My work involves elements of international finance, albeit of a non domestic type, I am not a numpty.

Thanks everyone of the helpful advice.

Schooling is the big issue, we are learning more daily but don't feel we know enough. We can't quite work out what would be a good fit, all options are open really, we could pay, or not, French or International - just want to make the right decision for DD. This means that we will spend all of the school holidays in 2016 in France!

One of my good friends moved to France 20 years ago (we are all getting old!), we are planning a long chat when she gets back from holiday next week.

OP, no-one is suggesting you are a numpty. Mumsnet is simply parents for parents. It's just that you wrote of Fiscal residency, that you "Have a year to research/get it right" and you "Don't think we will find France tricky". It's just that very many of the world's rich and famous have dreamed of residing in a beautiful property in France and schooling their children there - and yet it does not work out, either for schooling or tax or both. The double tax treaties don't stop payment of tax, they just deduct what you've paid in the other jurisdiction so you don't pay twice. But with a few properties, a plan of over 5 years, and child's place of schooling, then Wealth Tax, Inheritance Tax (don't mean to sound grim), VAT, all loom. Then, there is the tricky matter of schooling a non-French child in an excellent school in France or trying to homeschool.

Some ideas with horses : Rambouillet, Puligney Montcrachet and Burgandy countryside, Chantilly, Rhones Alpes generally.

The Sologne is a big horsey area (all 5000 km2 of it).

I am in the South, lovely but expensive but lots to do and lots of expats some doing what seems to be the same type of thing as you will.

I Can't really help with tax ( and you seem to be getting help with that).

Positives for me are: climate and way of life. Bright and sunny nearly all the time but still have seasons. At the moment the sun is out, the trees are changing colour and it's simply beautiful.
Lots of outdoors activities, lots of places for horseriding etc.
My french neighbours have been lovely and very welcoming, a real sense of community. (-unfortuately many have now left all at once but i am sure the new ones will be lovely as well)
Healthcare has been great. ( we have a private plan). If you want to see a specialist you normally just make an appointment direct ( recommendations from doc or friends) and so rarely a problem with waiting lists ( three months was the longest recently for a non urgent appoinment, which could have been much shorter if i did not want a specific person).

Schools a bit more tricky because of the ages of our children but if they were younger I would have had more choice. It will depend on your children and their strengths ( french schools seems to be quite academically focused, but i don't have much experience of this). Ours went to an international school which was good for them.

Overall Ilove it (but a bit homesick at the moment for a variety of reasons, but it is easy to get back to the uk and see family etc so its manageable).

My advice would be check out the schools throughly and try to make sure they are a good fit for your children.

Keep a house in the uk if possible ( we sold and now I worry that in the future we could be in trouble - as someone said above we have done a lot of work on our house with no return).

Check carefully where you are going to be based. Places look lovely in the summer and dismal, empty all shut up in the winter ( we nearly bought somewhere that looked stunning, french markets, lovely scenery etc, but in winter was v v quiet and little to do). We are now twenty minutes from a large town ( stunning town) so there is always something to do.

Buy somewhere on a bus route into the town. We did not and spent our life as a taxi service ( was okish but the children got fed of asking all the time and would have liked a bit more independence). Don't be fooled like we were by the bus stop for the school bus!

Make local friends who are not going to leave. ( many of my friends both expat and french left all at the same time!)

PM me if you want to know where I am and any questions.

The tax treaty actually means that one of our incomes is totally exempt from tax in France, not a simple case of topping it up in France at all.

Clearly I am not a cup half empty person!

We will be keeping our UK home and own a second home elsewhere too.

So much to consider. A year is a fairly long time to work it out though.

Horses are no longer ridden, just living out their old age in the style they have become accustomed to so I just need a bit of room for them at home with a five star stable block .

Nice to hear you love it Humphries, I have been terribly homesick in the past in far flung odd locations, not nice.

I am French with children aged 8.

For Normandie, I'd choose for them Bilingual Montessori College in Chantilly - beautiful spot, forests, quite English town, duc d'Aumal's castle, lovely restaurants.

For Picardy the Jeannine Manuel in Lille - exceptional teaching.

Towards Champagne the English section of the Rambouillet school - pastoral and idyllic but ok to get to Paris for museums.

My children speak/write English, French, Italian and Chinese, and have lived in several countries, I'd be confident these schools would be lovely for them. They also excel in one competitive sport each, so would consider the Sports school in the Alps. I've often heard criticism that French schooling does not allow the children to have co-curricular activities, yet we've found it fine for them to flourish with ballet, piano, string instruments, coding, scouts, camping, gymnastics, concerts, science clubs and team sports.

We absolutely adore France and miss it terribly for 1000 reason when abroad

Rambouillet should read Fontainebleau - we have some dear friends who live in both places, but it's the Fontainebleau school that's fab.