Would we be crazy to return to Singapore?

[RecoveringPerfectionist]

I NC'd a while ago but some of you will no doubt remember me from our angst during our year in Singapore in 2012/13 with our DS2, then 7, and school which ultimately led us to return to the UK. It's hard for me to discern what was school stress and what was normal homesickness for me personally, although I do know that it was impossible to consistently enjoy the experience whilst DS was going through the mill.

There is a possibility of a role in Singapore again and it's all I can think about. DS1 started secondary school (a state academy) in September and after a few ups and downs is settled. DS2 has thrived back here at a wonderful school and is now exactly where he should be, ie average across the board with 1s and 2s for effort in all subjects (1s being most, 3 being could do better). So, our minds are completely put to rest that there is nothing wrong with him. As suspected in Singapore he was a slow starter, at the wrong school and in the wrong system (IB). Of course now they are also 3 years older than when we went before.

Both boys would be okay about an international move (there would obviously be missing friends here etc. and all that normal stuff) and in fact often say that they don't want to be in the UK forever. DH and I are definitely not settled and would move overseas again for the right opportunity.

So now I'm wondering if DCs could get into Tanglin (UK system, not for profit). If there are waiting lists. If they would refuse DS2 on account of what happened before (because I would have to tell them right?).

I doubt we'll do it. I don't think we'll have the balls. Are we being selfish to want to though? Or just plain bonkers?

I remember you well (used to be butterfliesinmytummy). I think you need to carefully consider schools as nearly all international schools in Singapore including tanglin are ib. I also believe wait lists are still long for certain years, why not call and ask on a no names basis? What ages are your ds? I believe (may be wrong) that they may be at an age where more the one move would be difficult (in terms of schooling) so if you moved there, how long would it be for and would you be able to move back at the end of a contract or if you disliked it without having coursework or exams disrupted? I also remember that you disliked not being able to go on long bike rides, spend time in the countryside, pub lunches etc. Look back at your old threads and messages. I would get some facts about schools together (availability, syllabus etc) and take it from there.

Thank you Butterflies. I figured it was you from your other posts. How are things with you?

Yes, in the first few months we did miss those things for sure. But (good suggestion re reading the threads back) it was more about trying to figure out what would make the kids feel more settled and trying to mitigate what DS2 particularly was going through by doing some familiar stuff. Also as I said it's hard to know just how much of the unsettledness was down to school situation.

DS1 is 12 and DS2 is 10. They are in years 7 and 5 in the UK.

Hi!
wow!I can imagine how your mind is racing right now!
Maybe you remember we were going through the exact same situation at that time....we are still in the same country but changed schools and within a single day things turned around completely.

A few thoughts

1. you have accepted that not fitting in was as much your problem and that the school situation may have been a catalyst not the root cause. I imagine having gome through the wringer as a family you have also all become more transparent/accepting with each other and that this would be a very different relocation.

2. involve the kids in discussions right away. Anyway they are not at an age where you can ambush them anymore.

3. Are you not in the US right now? why not try SAS? Its a great school.
   My experience of Tanglin (at primary) is that although its IB it followed the key stages very closely. Not sure about their, or the MYP program in general.
   Is University in the UK the most likely outcome?

Arghhhh jsut realised i got you and butterfies mixed up!!!!

sorry! SAS comment not applicable!

Things to do to mitigate:

1. Make Tanglin your priority. Its an IB school but the demographics/community is very very british. go to singapore xpat wives and test the waters, speak to other parents there about how they perceive the IB.
   My recollection is that the IB learner profile was not constantly shoved down our throats and certainly the contents for units covering social studies etc....where anchored in british culture.

2. Budget permitting live in a setting as far removed from the previous as you can. You were in a house no? Maybe a condo with lots of playmates on the doorstep is better now at this age? they could have more freedom and use the shuttle buses etc.....Or the other way around if you feel condo life was too intrusive?

3)What is their N.1 sports/extra curricular? Find the best provider and get them into a comrehensive program that will take up lots of their time and help them develop strong friendships. At that age, nothing better in a boy's life than strong emotional mentoring by a coach and a "pack" to identify with.

4. You should also focus very hard on finding a job/hobby/sport etc.....that takes up much of your energy and time so they feel that everyone's life is complete and not just hanging there waiting from them all to come home and spill their worries on you at the end of the day. Am saying this in the nicest possible way, not being judgmental at all. I really think that just as toddlers need firm boundaries to develop, preteens/teens need busy routines and strong moral/emotional direction to develop a positive outlook!

All the best

Laptop, I only name changed to confuse you

Things are good here thanks. We all love rodeo and BBQ, we've stopped pointing at people wearing cowboy hats in the street and have love the "sky's the limit" attitude after "cannot lah" red tape singapore (although still miss it). Weather and big Texas blue skies are fab, traffic is a nightmare!

Laptop makes good points. I don't know it was so much the curriculum that seemed to make your experience so unpleasant, more certain members of staff? Nearly all international schools worldwide are IB now. We are in an IB british school in Texas and while I know lots of people don't necessarily like it, we find it brilliant. We are not so fond of the USA method of testing every week for example so happy to be out of that. Might be better to look at how the IB is adapted and delivered (international schools have no ofsted etc so a freer rein in the classroom).

Also would echo laptops point about making a new life. Be careful that your youngest doesn't see this as revisiting a bad experience, make it as different as you can.

Wil this be an advantageous move for your Dh career? Are there any plus points for this move other than wanting to live abroad? If your dss are happy and thriving at school (and at a relatively important stage in their education) I would be tempted to stay put and travel in a few years once they're off to uni....

Thank you so much for the brilliant advice and thoughts. Lots to think about.

Laptop, sorry if I gave the impression that we accept that what happened was not the school's fault. It absolutey was; they have sacked the member of staff who got things so wrong but still, I wish I had chosen a different school.

Hi recovering, I didn't ever post Inuit threads, but used to follow!

We were in Asia about a year 'behind' you and had similar feelings about schools, but for v different reasons.

Only you and DH know what is right, and your kids. I think having had time to be back in uk, you can think about what you would do differently, and as kids are older you could do more trips back home to top up on those country walks and pub lunches!

I think sometimes once you've been away it is just so difficult to imagine ever being back for good. I was so happy to leave Asia as I knew it wasn't for us long term, but equally would still probably end up going back if DH was offered the right role.

So feel for you. Life is for living and being overseas does mean you get the chance to meet so many amazing people. But uk is also an amazing country, sometimes I try to see it as if I was an expat here, and can see just how amazing and child friendly it is.

Anyway, sorry for the waffling on... will be following your decision with interest, as I felt v happy for you when you returned as you were clearly so happy.

Thank you wouldbe. I was very happy to be back, largely fulled by relief that DS2 was quickly returning to his old self. I don't think we will do it tbh. We knew it wasn't forever too; it was supposed to be a stepping stone to elsewhere (very likely the US and that is still an option). DH works for a huge US company and there are so many places we could go quite easily. Right now there are roles in Boston, New York, California and Sydney. He is not keen on Oz. The US ones would be of interest and may suit us better.

Argh! I think actually at the grand old ages of early to mid 40s we realise we should have done this years ago and that's a horrid feeling. There must be a reason why so many people who do it have pre-schoolers! It gets so much more complicated. In eight years we'll not have schools to consider but that's bitter sweet too because obviously don't want to wish the time away and also don't want to imagine the boys living in a different country.

It's hard to feel settled with this nagging at us constantly. We certainly have no emotional ties to where we are.

Whoever mentioned travel, that's a good strategy too. Last year we did 16 days in the US, a summer week in the French alps and skiing at xmas and it had a real impact having those to look forward to. Perhaps that is an option for now.

Thank you again and wouldbe I am sorry to hear you went through similar. Where are you in the UK?

Hello! I'm hoping we end up in the US also...we've lived there in the past, so again I know what I would find annoying and what I miss!!

We're in London, I think you're down south somewhere?? ( or I could be wrong!)

My issue with schools was sort of the opposite...two of my kids who have learning issues were v well dealt with very well, our problem was one of the kids who is very capable, as they were bored, and the school just didn't have a culture of challenging academically.

Being away gave me time to accept that the kids are all different, and to come to terms with two of mine who have dyspraxia/ dyslexia/ADHD issues. For them it meant they were out of the London hothouse system while these differences were diagnosed, so that now when we're looking at schools I know where they would be happy.

We weren't in Singapore, but I did visit and preferred it to HK...I found it much less 'busy'. Loved the long promenade walk on the coast, but can't remember where that was?

What about pursuing any of the US options?

Yes *Rainbow" we are in Hampshire; moved back to a different place (Surrey before) which has been a challenge in itself as hardly a thriving ex-pat community or indeed even new people to the area. Where in London are you? We would go to London if we could afford it but that too brings challenges regards schooling, unless you can afford London property prices AND private schools.

Where in the US do you fancy? I do think ultimately that's where we should be. It would suit DH massively and as a guru techie he would fit right in.

Sorry to hear about the stuff with your kids. Sounds very stressful too although it seems like a cathartic process in some ways. I am remembering that when we came back it was absolutely the right thing to do. School were telling us DS had something wrong with him and we disagreed.

Two sayings comes to mind. The one about when you made a decision it was right at the time. And the other is "it'll be alright in the end. If it's not alright, it's not the end".

Ooh like those sayings!!!!

Ooooh go to California!!! For us generally NYC makes sense.

Yes I know totally what you mean about schools. I guess the sensible last age to move would be at 13, or for kids to board.

Yes. No to boarding though for us. The gun issue in the US scares me lots. My mum was shot in the chest with a 12 bore shotgun when she was 14 and was lucky to survive. We were raised to be very anti gun.

Goodness me, I can completely understand that. That is shocking.

Hi!
Oh I have no doubt the school is entirely at fault.
we went through the same thing and pulled ours out and homeschooled for a while as it is very difficult to find school places.
they royally f**d up including forcing therapy and creating a culture of absolute fear etc.....There was absolutely nothing wrong with him, if anything he wasn't challenged enough by their supposeddly great academics but in fact very poorly delivered IB hocus pocus.
I feel vindicated now as the school which had a great academic reputation is going through MAJOR trouble, most senior staff resigned/fired and is constantly in the papers with accusations of nepotism etc...
Disgusting what goes on behind the scene!

Anyway! The Us sound like a great option!

You lot are confusing me changing your names….I knew that was you 'my friends call me oh/butterflies'

And Recoveringperfectionist although I can't remember your previous name…I remember your posts (we pm'd too).
I don't think you'd be mad to go back. I miss Sing still terribly. Dulwich is also open now and I have heard great things, lots of friends sending their kids there.

Lol Papooshka. I was pupsiecola. Remind me, where are you now?

I do remember our PMing :-)