$175k - good salary in Singapore?

[FiftyShadesOfNifty]

DH would be a SAHD at least to begin with so we'd only have the one salary. It would be a local role so no expat extras though schooling has been mentioned (DD1 would be starting in Sept 2016 when she's nearly 5).

I know it's a bit "how long is a piece of string" but is that salary enough for a decent enough lifestyle?

We eat out approx once a week, don't have expensive hobbies (aside from the girls' swimming/toddler groups/minigym etc), probably wouldn't run a car, but would like to make the most of travel within the region 2-3 times a year.

It depends on what you mean by decent lifestyle.... You can live a lifestyle on this salary, plenty of Singaporeans do. But if you want to shop in western supermarkets for example or eat in restaurants and not always hawker centres, it will be more expensive

Rent might be SG$ 6k a month
Utilities including phones SG$ 1k
Food probably another SG$ 1k a month
Taxis and commuting another SG$ 500
Healthcare and dental .....?
Trips home .....?
Travel in the region ....?
Relocating costs ...?
Clothes ....?
Swimming, minigym another SG$ 300

Have a look on a facebook group called Singapore expat wives (there are lots around this theme with different names) and ask. They will be able to give you the most updated rates on things.

I am closely watching this thread as well! Sorry I am no help!

Well I guess we'd want 3 bedrooms min, relo costs are covered, not sure about health and dental - what's usual out there?

Here we have approx £1500 per month after bills, food, travel/petrol (what I call unavoidable essentials). Everything else I call a 'luxury' and includes haircuts, clothes, savings, eating out, kids activities, holidays etc.

That's on two salaries though.

Joined that group but there are people I vaguely know (through work!) on there who I don't really want to know about my income

School fees if you want an international are a lot of money, kids activities are very expensive.. At least 3x the price of home.
Groceries expensive in western supermarkets, you can do cheaper, Depends on what you want to eat-eg decent meat etc (not from China)
You will need good health insurance for all of you as well..

I would suggest asking some general questions on expat wives about costs of condos/bills in certain areas, school fees etc to build up a general picture of what you will be spending..

With the rental market at the moment, you could get a 3 bed condo on East Coast, easily commutable to CBD for around $4-4.5k. Most condos have their own swimming pool and gym which can cut costs, although not always fantastic.

Check with work regarding medical, most people I knew were covered for medical through work but not dental.

DP and I (no kids) lived in SG with a great lifestyle with $175k combined, including about 10 holidays/weekends away a year and a trip back home each.

Health and dental you can go local. public hospitals are great too. That said, you should really ask for cover, its pretty standard, they would expect you to ask.

Singapore is more expensive every year although rents have settled and also think you could find something within $5000. That would include full facilities so you would not have to pay for too many extra activities.
Think long and hard about the location and make sure there is direct bus/train routes as taxis are scarce and quite expensive these days.

The biggie really is school. pre-school fees are almost just as high as primary in an International school. And then you have uniforms, school bus etc....
so within a couple of years with one entering school and the other in pre-school it may very well become a struggle.
It is very difficult for dependents to get permits to work too.
If you wanted to stay, does your husband work in an industry where he could find a sponsored job?

I think you can still travel around a bit but 4 tickets back to UK.....

If this a 2 year posting before you settle back home I'd say go for it. If you are hoping for this to turn into a longer stay then you must think of the above.

I've actually found it was easier for dependents to find work than it was for people who has just decided to move over. From a hiring perspective, he will be more attractive on a DP as he will just need a letter of consent to work.

Work should cover your medical and any dependents. Having said that, I had to go to a public hospital before my insurance kicked in, overnight stay, scans, medication etc and paid around $500 which I didn't think was too bad.

If you can negotiate schooling and make sure that you definitely negotiate on the price of housing, then I think you could be reasonably comfortable. Food shopping is expensive so looking at markets etc and adjusting your meals away from typically Western cooking could help.

I'm about to start a job in SG on a bit more than that. We have three kids, two at international school and one in preschool and I don't think it's possible. Feel free to PM me if you want to crunch the numbers as I've been doing!

Are you paying for schooling though salted?

Nope...

After tax 175k about 13,500 per month. Rent, utilities, phone easily eats up over half of that. School bus is 500 per term x 2 children (4 terms per year). There are very few cheap and cheerful preschool activities here like in the UK, eg swimming classes are $25 per week per child, gym is similar, ditto ballet. Preschool is not covered in our benefits and that's about $800 per month (local preschool). Health care is pricey, unless you have good insurance (starting at 10k per year), there is no free NHS, you pay to see the GP, you pay for all medicines, you pay for all immunisations for kids...).
Obviously people live on far less than this but I think it will be a struggle for us.
If you had to pay for international schooling on top it would be impossible, I think (ours are approx. 30k per child per year, so about 5k per month...).

Ok thanks, that's v helpful.

The move wouldn't take place until later this year. Dd1 would be 3.9 and dd2 would be 1.4.

Dd1 is currently in preschool here so I think would benefit from similar out there until sept 2016 when big school kicks in. I think DH would benefit from being able to take dd2 to playgroups/coffee mornings (assuming there are some?!?) but employer is taking about covering school costs but whether that includes preschool I'm not sure.

It's so hard to predict whether what's on paper would suit the reality eh? In my head:

Rent $6k
Utilities $1k
Food $1k
Healthcare $1k
Transport $0.5k

Then $4k left over each month sounds pretty ok to me once the unavoidable essentials are covered. Or am I foolish to think that's a decent amount???

Couple of other things...

I keep reading that it's tricky without a car if you've got small DC... But squeezing a car into our budget seems tight...

What the hell do people do to cover the school hols if both parents work?? The international schools seem to have big long holidays... We'd anticipated that DH might work once we're all settled (and this would obv offset some of the financial concerns that arise from just my salary) but it looks like that might not be doable in terms of childcare.

Would it be unheard of for me to request 4 days pw after a while there?!

We're here already so that helps in assessing what's doable (for us). We spend more than your budget above on food - I don't buy local meat/chicken/fish/milk and I avoid any fruit or veg from China. We don't eat out much. If you have preschool and school transport included that might work, but that eats another $1200 ish out of your "spare" money in our case. It sounds like you wont be having a helper/cleaned so that's also a saving.

When employers talk about covering schooling costs, it often means from the term the child turns 4. Make sure they cover fees as well as administration / registration costs, building funds etc

I haven't come across any that cover childcare or nursery. Looking at propertyguru.com.sg, I think you can rent for less than $6k. I used to live at Duchess Crest for example, older low rise condo and great location just off Bukit Timah and good transport links but their three bed units are going for 4.5k and less. Can you say which area of the country you would live in without outing yourself or your employer?

People have helpers or use camps to cover holidays if they're working. A helper costs approx 1200 per month once you factor in the levy you pay to the government, her salary, food, health care, mandatory holiday home etc. She also has to live with you. Camps are approximately 500 per week per child (plus bus/taxi to get them there and home again). Part time work is not unheard of but not easily obtained. Probably depends on your industry.

No idea on areas yet as it's v v early in the process.

At the moment it's sounding like we could ideally do with $200k.

What's the deal with local/Chinese groceries?

Are these income figures before tax?

Yes, gross.

Income tax on your salary would be about 10% - more information here

We were in Singapore on around double that figure and paid for everything ourselves including 2 DCs at international school and rent (6k per month for a 3 bed in River Valley area). We had some nice holidays whilst there and we probably spent 1.5k per month on food (good quality meat and veg etc. very sensitive skin so washing detergent alone was around S$30 a bottle). We had a helper. No car which was no problem at all. We didn't save a huge amount and at times felt like we were backpackers lol but we did okay.

So you probably needed $50k pa more than me for schooling/helper, recovering?

But the overall feeling I'm getting is $175k isn't wonderful

Just looked up the school fees. I think they were $65k when we we were there, and helper would have been around $14k I guess.

As others have said, it is doable but it depends why you're there and what you want to get out of it. There is a lot of wealth there and like anywhere you can live cheaply, expensively and all manner of in between. Travel is reasonably cheap and really decent hotels/resorts are cheaper than European equivalents.

Incidentally, today having had both cars in the garage (one of which is thankfully under warranty as have only had it 2 weeks, but they can't seem to fix it) and a leaking brand new (£6k) en-suite bathroom we are reminiscing about the days of renting property and not owning any cars = no unexpected bills lol.