Any Shanghai Mumsnetters?

[NotInGuatemalaNowDrRopata]

We may be moving there soon and I have a ton of really stupid questions to ask someone!

e.g. do the international schools all have waiting lists? How do you survive without speaking the language? How do you order at McDonalds? How do you buy clothes if you're a size 14-16? What's the best British school? Where do all the brits live and shop? Can you buy the type of bread, butter, cheese etc we're used to? Do people have translators?

I don't have any answers unfortunately, but am joining to lurk, as I am moving there in August. Heading over there in a few weeks' time as well for a holiday, so might be able to give a few answers then :)

Ooooh great! We might be going for a look soon too. Let's keep in touch! What schools are you going to visit? I'm looking at Wellington, Dulwich and BISS. Are you going to look at compounds while you're there? I'm struggling as it's hard to guage the scale of the city without being there.

Hi, I don't live in SH but I do live on the east coast (in a much less globalised city!) so I can answer some of your questions.

1. I can speak chinese, but others can't speak a word and work by making chinese friends for shopping (usually a few wives of expats who are very friendly), or buying online (although it can take 3 months for stuff to be delivered from overseas)
2. Macdonalds is scarily easy to order from, they have a menu at the counter that's also in English, and they also do home delivery for 8 kuai more, with the website in english too. Other restaurants offer either badly translated options or quite often have pictures to point at. Learning the characters for beef, pork, chicken etc is quite easy though, and something I would recommend. When menus just say 'meat', they're always something pretending to be pork.
3. Most people I know buy clothes in HK/ Singapore/ Seoul
4. You can buy bread (fresh), butter, cheese, nutella, fresh fruit juice, cakes, haribo etc at western supermarkets or bakeries, although the price is high compared to local produce. You'll probably think the price is quite reasonable though!

Good luck!

Thanks loads Corsu

Did it take long to learn Chinese?

What sort of stuff would it be wise to take over with us? I'll stock up on bras as I have big boobs, but am trying to imagine what else we'll need that won't be readily available.

Would it be silly to bring all of our furniture and belongings?

I can't believe it can take 3 months for deliveries! Shocker!

I'm actually a student here studying mandarin, but outside of the foreign student population it's usually the kids of expats who do the talking - they pick it up very quickly! I've been learning for two years, and it's quite good, but you could very easily get to grips with reading ingredients on menus and reading street signs. I would really recommend learning your favourite foods, and how to write your home address/ work address/ school address/ hairdressers etc to show to taxi drivers.
One thing I would suggest is having a book where you have written down (had written down for you) phrases like 'I am allergic to nuts' 'I am a vegetarian' etc because Chinese people can sometimes struggle to comprehend these concepts! These are all things that you will only need to do, however, if you plan on being independent, going to places on your own and exploring etc. You could quite happily live in the expat bubble without learning a word or having a conversation with a local.

You should bring bras, tampons, dairy milk chocolate, your favourite tipple if you want. Take as much baby formula as you are allowed per person (check this, they're strict), even if it's not necessary for you it's the best present ever for anyone with a baby out here.

Bring a kindle too actually, books are difficult and expensive to get. Set up your VPN before you get here - I recommend Astrill - although beware the government has just updated their firewall and some VPNs are still not working.

I think it would be silly to ship everything here. Chances are, your apartment will be nowhere near the size of your home in the UK and we have IKEA, Carrefour, Walmart etc here anyway.

The 3 months for deliveries is such a pain, but Taobao is the most amazing website - far better than anything in the UK! So overall it's not that bad - plus I have got refunds on a few orders that I had considered long lost, only for them to turn up 2 months later! So that has saved me a few £££.

Wow, you're awesome Corsu, thanks for all the info!

I moved to Shanghai in August with my dh and 2 dds (9,2) and we are really happy here.

Dh and I both teachers (not in the British system) so don't know much about the schools you mentioned, but I know they are good schools. Our school does have a waiting list.

You can get everything in Shanghai - at a price! (although I am not having much success finding a sports bra in my size ??) but cheese, tampons and bread are easily available. There is an online grocery store we have used occasionally, but I know people who only shop there. Have a look, it will give you an idea of what is available.
www.kateandkimi.com

You can buy clothes at M&S, H&M & lots of other places. Taobo is great, - but it is very hard to navigate if you don't read chinese.

I speak basic chinese, but Dh is much better than me and we can get whatever we need. He can also read Chinese so that helps a lot - especially in restaurants as they don't always have an English menu.

Absolutely get a VPN before you come. Astril is having problems right now so it takes forever to get facebook, or gmail. We have much more success with a laptop than with our iPads, iPhones.

Let me know if you have more questions, I am happy to help. :)

Thanks loads Alligatorpie, being able to see that shopping website has really helped.

Are you homesick? What do you miss?

It is much more frightening than I ever would have thought, planning to move to a country where I don't have a single word of the language. It gives me a whole new perspective on immigrants, and how brave they actually are.

I will definitely have a giant heap of questions for you, things seem to be hotting up with a job offer, and I've started biting my nails!

I have been away for four years this time and before that I was away for 11 years, so don't really get homesick. Obviously, I miss my family, but we go back a lot and we have ( 3 sets of ) gps come to visit several times per year.

When they come to visit, they bring toiletries ( hair wax, toothpaste, kids medicine...) cereal (stupidly expensive here) and chocolate treats mostly. This time they brought Easter chocolate as my dds still believe in the easter bunny and I don't know where you could get big chocolate bunnies here.

I know people that speak virtually no chinese and manage, but it is easier if you can speak some. Pleco is a good translator - all the other ones we downloaded didn't work once we arrived.

Just wanted to say hi from Shanghai as we have been here for a number of years. Basic English is widely spoken, even if not fluently so it is easy at the beginning and there are lots of classes to get a crash course in basic every day mandarin.
My DCs are at the French school (DH is French) so cannot really help for the British school situation. But for any other practical questions, please fire away and I will do my best to give answers. Great city, very big and far too many people, fun and interesting but can be challenging When least expected.
For housing you can live in the city or in compounds. Due to the city size and sheer volume of traffic, it is a good idea to base housing either near to work or to school to avoid hours commuting. All the schools run buses for pick ups and drop offs. You can Check conditions and routes with the schools.
Am signing off for now as on iPad and the predictive text in French is driving me mad but ask away, I shall return tomorrow on the computer keyboard...

Thanks Alligatorpie and Mamahuhu! It's all very exciting and I'm spending far too much time online reading up on Shanghai.

Part of my husband's package will be language lessons, so it looks like it might be a good idea to take that up.

Do you have Ayis? Also, how is that pronounced?! I can't imagine what I would do with one.

Hi again. Definitely take up the language lessons if included in DH's package. It will also be a way of meeting up with people.

Ayis are a godsend! We didn't have one at first as I also couldn't imagine what I would do with one and DH was at home taking care of all our daily issues. However, finally we decided to take the plunge and wouldn't be without now. They are your way into the local culture and if you can find the right person, they become part of the family and will help sort out loads of things. Sounds a bit twee I know, but ours has developed a great relationship with the children and it means they get to speak practical Chinese at home on a daily basis. Most don't speak any english, so you'll need a few basic words in Chinese to communicate.
Ayi will really be a housekeeper/home help/ nanny role and can deal with local deliveries, practical problems, housework etc. Up to you how many hours and which tasks. Ours also does some cooking from time to time when we want home made local food.
There are several agencies here who can help you to find the ONE.

Ayi is pronounced something like EYE-EE and actually means Aunt. Locally, it is also a polite way to address a more mature lady (above 30ish) in the street, shops etc. Have often been addressed as such myself, which always make me feel very old.

Saw above that you had been given the website for Kate&Kimi. We use that a lot for food shopping. Quality is good and you do need to pay attention here to food quality and origin. China is not so hot on food safety. More expensive than the local markets. But local markets are great too for their diversity.
We also use Epermarket and Fields but as said above, there are some international supermarket chains here: Carrefour and Tesco, although their range is quite local with some imported goods.
M&S also has a small food range (mostly groceries and a small selection of frozen stuff) so a taste of home and Ikea also has a small food section.
There are also 2 chains providing only imported goods: City Shop and City Super (which is more upmarket). Local supermarket chains exist but their hygiene standards for fresh foods are not good.

Things to bring with you is another issue. When we first came here, we would import all sorts of stuff in our suitcases. Today, we can find most things, albeit it a higher price due to local taxes. I would definitely suggest stock cubes (but you can find Oxo and Bisto here), tampons (very limited selection as not used by Chinese ladies), a selection of basic medecine (ibuprofene, cough mixture, strepsils, antiseptic lotion and good mosquito repellent) perhaps other stuff if you have DCs for basic home treatment. Hospitals all offer good quality healthcare, but it comes at a price (make sure you have a good healthcare insurance package included) and you have to pay cash at each visit, unless your insurance has an agreement for direct billing. The system can be considered as private for foreigners and a visit to the doctor's for a bad cold will probably set you back around £80 to £100 for the consultation and tablets. And you have to go there as no home visits. So best to have something to hand for D&V or fever treatment. Mosquitos here in the summer can be any annoyance but there are no mosquito borne diseases in Shanghai. But they are quite ferocious and leave big red bites especially around the lower legs (very low flying things)

For underwear, M&S has been a life saver! And for the PP above, have you tried Decathlon (French sports store chain) for sports bras?

For housing, a lot of rental places are furnished with basics, so that can be an easy option to avoid shipping everything over. This can also be negotiated in some cases with the housing management. Interior design styles can be surprising though but you do get used to living in mismatched furniture. We came over with 1DD and 3 suitcases. When we go back, we'll be shipping more on the return leg as Shanghai has loads of interesting shops!

Goodness, have just realised that this has turned into a major essay. Don't want to overwhelm you with the info, so let me know if anything else/any other questions and I'll check back in again

Sadly marks and spencer is going to close all but one of its Shanghai stores this summer. Nanjing xi lu will stay, but is going to be refurbished.

ShanghaiDiva How very dare they!

Mamahuhu you are truly awesome. Thank you.

I heard from Dulwich and BISS today that they have capacity in my boys' years (they are 3 and 7), so things are coming together nicely.

I have started a list of things I could have an Ayi do, and after the last few days' mammoth ironing effort, that is at the top! Do you think they'd be able to sew in name labels, because that's the other thing I hate doing!

We have also found out that we have quite a good air freight and shipping allowance, so I think we'll just bring our stuff rather than try and sell everything before we go. I'm just thinking that it's a big enough upheaval without the added pain of trying to sell everything. I'll get rid of our sofas and some other bits and pieces, pare down the papers and toys. Which leads to another question - how long did your shipped stuff take to arrive? Not quite sure what we will do for beds while we wait, maybe it'll be airbed city!

No, M&S absolutely cannot do that!

We didn't ship anything here, just brought a mix of clothes and a few toys in suitcases. From what I understand, it could take 2-3 months for your seafreight to be delivered to you, including customs clearance over here.

I believe that to clear customs, you have to already have completed your resident visa process in Shanghai (which can take about 1 month for the health check and administrative processing).
I have also heard that some electrical goods can be taxed, even if they are personal belongings.
Perhaps someone else who has shipped recently will be along to correct me with a more recent experience.

But I would recommend getting in contact with your shipping company as early as possible so that they can firstly check the volumes (better if you can ship as an individual container shipment and avoid grouping) and give you guidelines as to which type of items could be an issue. I also think that you need to have every box clearly labelled with contents to avoid any issues on arrival.

As you have some airfreight, then you can ship essentials to get going, such as sheets, towels and some of the kids 'must have' stuff.

Will you be coming over before moving here at all to sort out schools and accomodation? If so, check with the management of your housing place if they could supply beds at least until your shipment arrives. Otherwise, it looks like airbeds to start off. DCs will love the camping adventure!

And for your name labels - really can recommend the iron in ones, saves hours :)

Thats awful about M&S!

My ayi is great. Dh and I both work, so she takes and collects dd2 to and from preschool, she cooks three times a week, irons, does dishes, laundry, all the housework and shops when I need her to. She is live out and works 7:30-5 five days a week. I would be lost without her. She even bought dd2 some fleecy lined leggings when she thought she was cold....and it is freezing here!

We didn't ship either but some friends that did had to wait ages for their stuff. They couldn't get into their flat for almost 2 months after arriving and I believe they needed a permanent address for customs to release it.

To the pp- I love Decathalon....will check this weeknd. Thanks for the tip.

You might also want to get on shanghaimamas.com (I think it's .com) it is a bit confusing to navigate and you need to be accepted as a member which takes up to 2 weeks, but there is some good info on there if you search.

If you are coming on a pre trip visit bring some extra stuff with you to leave here at the office or with a colleague. Dh did this and took books and games for our kids.
We had two shipments - air and sea - but don't underestimate how long they can take to arrive. Ours arrived in November and we moved in August! This was back in 2008 when there was extra security due to Beijing Olympics. Also our air shipment arrived after our sea shipment. We had clothes, bedding, kitchen stuff, kids games, toys and bikes shipped and put the remainder of our stuff in storage. When you are packing up and have multiple destinations for you chattels ( air, sea, storage, take on plane) make sure everything is clearly labelled with post it notes. We nearly had our beds shipped here and they did ship my wedding dress by mistake!
If you fly business you can bring quite a lot of stuff with. We had an allowance of 120 kilos between us.

Most places are rented furnished.
Have lots of passport type photos taken and bring them with you as you need them for everything.

Education
Dulwich is in a bubble Pudong (East side of the river) side - church with steeple, restaurants, cricket greens etc; very easy to assimilate but a bubble non the less.

BISS can be found in Puxi (West side of the river) and is perfectly fine. Nord Anglia are Ofsted so you know what you're going to get out of the education.

Wellington is also worth a gander. New school on the block but it's well equipped and well thought of already.

Food delivery
Sherpa's delivers restaurant to your house, hotel or hospital bed, order online, from any restaurant on their books in the local vicinity.
www.sherpa.com.cn/index.shtml
Kate & Kimi rocks hummus, cereal, tzatziki, breads, pies & sausages.
Fields is another online deliver supermarket (recently gone down hill as not offering freshly made produce)
City Shop also delivers

Health care
Medical insurance is a must...
Once gained, I recommend Parkway Health but that's just my preference.

Drivers, Ayis & other homehelp
Depending on your package you may/ may not be entitled too the 'good life.' If so, enjoy and don't feel too guilty :)

Thanks everyone.

ShanghaiDiva That's an awesome suggestion (to bring stuff to leave on the pre-assignment visit). I probably wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes utter sense to use a huge baggage allowance on a short trip and get a fair amount of stuff moved. I'm thinking towels and bedding.

Alligatorpie you got me converted - I think I'll get an Ayi. Just a bit worried about how you interview someone whose language you don't share. Perhaps we could pay extra for someone with a little bit of English.

BobbyGentry thanks loads for all those tips. I'm happy to live in a little Dulwich bubble, at least at first! It's going to be a huge culture shock as it is for the kids. We moved to the UK from NZ 20 years ago, and that was culture shock enough!

We might get a taste of the good life - I'll let you know when the contract officially arrives! I'm dying to know the housing budget, have been told to expect 45-50,000 so hopefully we'll get something nice with that.

That is an amazing housing allowance - I think you will find something very nice for that!

There are agencies you can hire an ayi through and you specify how much english you need potential candidates to have. We pretty much interviewed ayis in Chinese, but the one we eventually hired has really good English - it just makes life easier!

Indeed, your housing budget is very generous and you should be able to get something really nice for that.

How are things going now ? Have you got further détails about the job and dates etc ?

Any idea when you might be over for your fact finding trip?

Thanks both.

Grrr! It's so frustrating! We don't have dates yet, just a vague "maybe by the end of May". It's winding me up because I want to get to work planning and cancelling stuff and calling estate agents (to rent our place out), etc. and I know that once the ball is rolling they'll want everything done in 5 minutes.

We might be coming over in a couple of weeks, but we're trying to time it so we can see schools and not coincide with Easter holidays. I can't wait! I'm sick of looking at the websites now and just want to see the lay of the land with my own eyes!

I'm back to bringing everything. Storage is not covered by the company and we don't have family here to leave stuff with.

I went into M&S today and was going to buy vests and socks to last a year for my two boys, then had the thought I'm not going to outer Mongolia, they will have that stuff there. Help! I need to settle my head down. What do I really need to bring, aside from toiletries and bras? Do I put any pantry stuff in like herbs and spices? Do I need to buy clothes for the boys (I will get school shoes) Do they have nice kids' clothes shops?

I keep reading about how expensive stuff is, like food and good shoes, etc. What's cheap?

I really need this fact finding trip, don't I?

That's so annoying when dates are not fixed and you just cannot get on with getting on with stuff. Just keep making lists, that's usually what I do when I can't actually make things move forward myself. At least it feels like I'm doing something then.

Great that you will be able to get over here soon and have a proper look around for yourself. Helps to see it all with your own eyes and get a feel for the place and where you would find it comfortable.

Easter holidays are not too long here, usually only a week for most schools as the schools have to juggle with local national holidays as well as our standard holidays. My DDs seem to always be having days off here and there most months.

Been thinking about other things to bring over and have come up with decent tea bags if you like a brew. Really daft when you're moving to THE country of tea, but tea here isn't the same and the wishy washy lipton tea bags that you can fine in the shops just do not make for a decent cuppa. I actually get my Dad to supply PG tips to us.

Good point for the school shoes. Quite hard to find decent ones here. I tend to buy when back in Europe during the summer. Sports stuff and trainers are OK though and there is a decent sports shop chain here from France (Decathlon) which is not pricey and where you can stock up on cheap T shirts, fleeces, sports socks and the like.
For children's clothes, we also have a couple of good brand shops (again from France) Okaïdi in the Carrefour store shopping gallery and Orchestra on Huai Hai Road (main shopping street in town centre), then there's GAP, H&M, UniQlo and there is an underground market selling kid's clothes and things where you can pick up bargains on basics and can haggle a bit.

What's cheap ? Not a lot if you only buy imported stuff. If you go to local markets for veg and stuff, then that's cheap (be careful for the quality).

There's also a huge market in QiPu Road (actually high rise warehouse places) where you can get lost for a few days and can find cheap clothing, shoes, trinkets, bags etc - great fun, you can bargain but need to check quality. There are also some of these behind the city centre ancient garden (Yu Garden) where you can pick up all sorts.

Its also not too expensive to get clothes made in either of the clothing markets in town. Loads of stalls where you can take favorite pieces and get them copied or pick from designs on show, choose your material...

Eating out is not too pricey, if you go local and avoid the posh, trendy places where prices are similar to home. We tend to eat out loads here compared to back home.

Public transportation (taxis, buses and underground) is really low priced, so getting around the city is easy and cheap. The underground is simple to use and well signposted in English. Taxi drivers don't usually speak English, so useful at first to have places written down in chinese, until you get the hang of it.

Another thing to slip into your luggage, which we have found useful with children has been a decent yogurt maker. Ours eat loads of the stuff and the range here is really limited and quite pricey. Maybe not useful if you're not into dairy.

But most of all, it is a big city where you can find everything (well almost everything) so don't worry too much and enjoy.

Wow Mamahuhu thanks so much! My older DS is a yoghurt freak, he'd be lost without it and since he's utterly opposed to moving to "stupid old China" (he's 7), it'd be awful if he was without his peachy yoghurt! I'm just looking at a Lakeland one now.

It's good to hear that there are some shops we know there, if there's a Gap, I don't really need to worry about clothing my boys.

I'm getting excited now as the more people I tell the more I hear about "so-and-so's friend went there and loved it!", even my GP said she went there for a girls' trip and loved it!