Moving to NY - is it possible on average wage?

[camberwellred]

Hello, it's possible that my dh may apply for a job within the same company but in NY, he has also been given a green light for this by the NY MD who has said she'll back his application.

The thing is we would be living solely off his income - in the UK it's 35k, I'm unsure as to how much it would be in NY but I don't thinki it will be wildly different. We have two children one 8yo & one 3yo who attends nursery and gets her free 2.5 hours a week, within this time I work p/t bringing in roughly the same but per annum, maybe a bit less.

The posts that I've read on this seem to refer to people on a much higher income than us which makes me a bit worried - we'd need public schools, a 3 bed apartment and very open as to where we'd live but ideally not further than a 1 hour commute (ideally) Our house in the UK would rent for approx £1600 pcm.

Could anyone provide an insight into whether this would be actually be possible and what kind of lifestyle would be available for this?

Thank you in advance!

Weehawken is one of the few school districts with full sports facilities. They have a bus that takes you to hoboken path so you can take the train from hoboken or you can take the bus to port authority and the E train downtown. I would expect it's better to take the bus to port authority and the E train downtown. Expect an hour each way for the commute.

We're not married but would in advance of moving out to get a better visa that doesn't require me to work straight away.

Definitely a plus about the sports facilities. Regarding the healthcare, this was the information we were given today, not ideal, and could work against the move, I'm not sure yet until we are able to build up a full financial picture of costs and budget.

Do you know if the schools in Weehawken are equally as competitive as Brooklyn?

Fecking hells bells typed a reply and lost it. Here goes again...

Insurance - As per the PP's, this is odd and I also don't know if you would have access to Obamacare. Your DH's company policy should provide cover for dependents. You will have to pay for it - that's quite common. Also get your hands on the actual policy to see what you are covered for and more importantly what you could be on the hook for. TBH, this would be a deal breaker for us.

Next up I would be trying to get an idea of likely take home pay for $90K. Once you have an idea of this you'll be able to budget. No good looking at areas to live until you know how much you can afford to spend on rent. Make sure that any online calculators you use include Federal and State Tax. There's additional city tax if you want to live in NYC. Most calculators will also include Social Security and Medicare (our version on NI).

I don't know anything about Weehawken Schools, but a quick Google search revealed that the school for you 8yo is rated 5/10. I had to find a Middle and High School and it was easier just to move to the suburbs where as long as you live in the town, your kids go to the local school.

I was researching our move this exact time two years ago and feel your pain . Our time is almost up though as we move back in the spring.

In weehawken you want Woodrow Wilson school. It's K-8 and rated 8/10 in great schools. Came highly recommended from a lot of people and I like the feel of the school when I visited. For high schools you have a few options. There is a school in weehawken but also a tech school in north Bergen and McNair in Jersey city that you apply to for high school.

Forgot about the competition bit. Schools I. Weehawken are zoned so your address determines what school you go to. You can opt to switch but it can be hard to do this as children in the zone get priority.

Oh my lord, please please do not move to New York with 2 kids on $55k... That is basically destitute in this city, you'd be toeing the poverty line.

Even if you get a visa that allows you to work as well, consider that full-time childcare is approx $3k/mo per child at a daycare (nursery) and nannies get paid about $20-30/hr for 2 kids.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but it is really crazy expensive here.

Do not go unless your DP gets offered at least $90 net, plus family health insurance and dental and also maternity coverage for you unless you are using cast iron contraception (and everything else "FlipFantasia" mentioned). Maternity is often separate from family coverage.

For a little perspective, DD1, single and straight out of university, turned down an offer of $60k for a job in NY simply because it wouldn't have been affordable, and it had great healthcare and a 401k and other bells and whistles. $20k more and she would have considered it. DD1 is not in any way a diva, has worked at babysitting since she was 12, worked Saturdays all through school, and worked 360 days a year all through university, ending up paying off one student loan before she graduated. She is frugal, buys only clearance clothes, and cooks well from scratch. She would not have expected to blow her income on expensive shoes or holidays in Patagonia.

I moved over here on $115k 10 years ago. I met DH and he was earning less than $70k due to his employer refusing to honour his contract. We were able to live on his salary alone in hoboken after I was laid off. We now have a budget of $60k a year for expenses with daycare on top. We have 2DC. Bear in mind we don't pay for healthcare, cell phones, Internet, our car which includes gas, insurance and Maint.

I would see what they offer and ask them to cover your rent if they offer you $90k a year. Honestly I would think they are rubbing their hands with glee at being able to hire someone for less. The fact that they are starting at $90k says something.

In addition to flips list I would add a stipend for expenses when you return to England to visit family. A 6 day trip this past month cost more than I care to remember.

The days of the relocation packages some of us came over on 7+ years ago are long gone. We were the last family to relocate for a major corporation 8 years ago on the kind of full relocation, rent paid, good salary, annual flights home, GC paid for, UK home sorted kind of package. I like to think we were the move that broke the bank

Ok a couple of points that at outline the situation more clearly. healthcare is provided for myself & two dc's but we have to pay for it . Apparently dp's will be $250 per month & ours will be significantly less.

No way I'm getting pregnant! regardless of wherever we are, I'm done so neednt explore the possibility of maternity care/ cover.

I don't drive & we won't be running a car.

The company is relatively small- perhaps only 250 people worldwide, it's growing rapidly & this would provide an amazing career jump for my dp within the company & also a very new area of commerce. What I'm trying to clarify is that it's not a huge corporation otherwise yes we'd definitely expect the full package with bells on! But there's actually quite a lot in it for us career-wise for when we move back to the UK.

We have always had an extremely low income, surviving for 2 years solely on dp's wage of £35k with a hefty mortgage & a bit of debt ( which is clearing) this is us in the best financial position we gave ever been in.

There us a relocation package but they are being very cagey in disclosing information so there's going to be some serious negotiating. Taking all this into account it would be really interesting to work out what the actual basics are of what we would need. For rentals also I'm sure we'd need a hefty down payment ?

When you say you have survived on £X amount in the UK it's possible you are not taking into account the many supports the British state lends to people to make a reasonable life possible on that sort of income. None of that is available in the US -- you pay for absolutely everything there out of your own pocket.

Unless you are committed to city living you will need a car. City living is expensive. You are not going to save anything by living in the city, is what I am trying to say. Neighbourhoods in the suburbs where you can walk to do your shopping and to children's activities or just bring your children or send them on foot to play with other children are also expensive -- every nice detail and every advantage comes with a price tag. You might as well learn to drive and get a car. It would give you more choices.

Why are they being so cagey about relocation costs? They know what it costs to live in NY, and they know your DP is contemplating uprooting a young family to go there. They know you can't live in a one bedroom dump in a dangerous neighbourhood with the children and go dumpster diving on weekends. There is something awry in their approach here. Your DP isn't single and fancy free and he has to be sure he is not imposing hardship on his family for three years with the promise of better things afterwards. Do they want him there or not?

Health insurance is nearly always a charge on net pay, so the trick is to get an offer of gross income that still makes it possible to live after health insurance and withheld tax and social security have also been taken out.

Normally LLs ask for a month and a half as a deposit on top of the first month's income, but since you have no US credit history you may have to offer more as a security deposit. Apartments come unfurnished -- you are going to have to buy everything including appliances. If you choose to ship your things over, that is going to cost a lot too. Finding an apartment means using an agent or trying to get one yourselves on local listings. Watch Seinfeld for an idea of how the DIY system works. If you are not 'on the ground' it is difficult to get yourselves set up. Where are you going to live while you look? How are you going to find that interim place? Is the company prepared to put you up somewhere, even for a month, and not deduct that cost from salary? It is probably going to be you and the two DCs, without a car, doing all the spadework on this while DH is at work all day, and negotiating unfamiliar terrain and terminology by yourself unless the company provides some sort of relocation help.

Honestly city living is your best bet. Having done both city and suburbs here in NJ our living costs are lower here in hoboken. If you don't like weehawken look at hoboken. You really do not need a car here.

I shared this with DH and he said you should ask about school fees over rent. I think he has a good point! I will say DH is extremely good at negotiations and he said you need to have things on your list that you don't need and concede on those. There are something's that are cheap for them to provide and are worth more for you.

I strongly suggest you check out the expat health insurance packages as they don't cost much and cover the gaps in the policies here. I think our policy is about £1000 a year for his employer. Annual claims have been up to $15000 a year due to childbirth and appendicitis all in one six month period.

One thing I warn you of is the need to have a savings account. When you get here I implore you to save at least $10k ASAP and then work it up to $30k. It's not like England here where this is a safety net.

As someone who works in the NYC real estate, here are a few resources that may be helpful. NYC is expensive, but there are affordable options that may be better than commuting in.

In terms of finding an apartment:
streeteasy.com/ is by far the most used search site, though it is mostly focused on Manhattan
www.listingsproject.com/ has some very good deals outside Manhattan

As mathanxiety points out, without US credit history, a landlord may ask for a large deposit. If that is a problem, Insurent is a resource that may be helpful.
www.insurent.com/

Also - the broker fees in NYC take a lot of people by surprise, but there are ways around them if you are willing to put in the time. I wrote a post about how they work, which may be helpful to understand.
revaluate.com/blog/nyc-broker-fees-explained/

The public schools in NYC are generally pretty good. But if you want to investigate yourself, you can use the map below to find the zoned schools for an address. And you can go to the second link to find out more about them.
schools.nyc.gov/schoolsearch/
schools.nyc.gov/Accountability/tools/report/FindASchoolQualityReport/default.htm

I have personally gone through the NYC apartment search many times, and know how daunting it can be for anyone, particularly for a family coming from overseas (coincidentally I have also lived in the UK). If you have any specific housing-related questions, I would be happy to help answer them if I can. Feel free to email me at: max at revaluate dot com.

NYC is a great city. And I hope you can find a way to make things work.

In your situation I think the best bet is that the employer rents the apartment and subleases it to you with them paying the deposit and associated fees. I'm Brooklyn and Manhattan the fee is 10% of annual rent and here in Hoboken and weehawken its 1 month rent. Deposit is normally one month of rent but can be up to two months rent. On $90k this is something the employer should pick up.

Sorry dd is clanging pots and pans as I type! Losing my mind!!!!!

Thank you so much for the feedback, I've been waiting for a moment when my dc's aren't fighting or yelling out demands, it's not happening but I'll type regardless!

So many good points have been made and Want very good points about negotiating.

We've had a quick look at areas, Bronx Riverdale, Queens Astoria, Weehawken and Bedford Stuyvesant in Brooklyn seem to be more affordable...

I guess now it's a matter of waiting to see whether he is offered it and we'll take it from there.

Thank you!

My SIL lives in Bed Stuy and likes it. Quite dodgy in places, but also lots of nice brownstone streets (they live on Greene Ave, can't think of their nearest subway but there's an amazing trendy donut store right by them!). It feels 'Brooklyn' to me, and they have cool things, like a plot in their local community garden (like a small allotment) which they can also hire out for bbqs and the like. Means their 2 year old can actually play in a garden, plant flowers etc. Still easy to get to Pier 6 playground, Prospect Park, Williamsburg, Manhattan etc.

I've heard v nice things about Astoria (a colleague of my DH lives there) and Riverdale too.

Sorry to arrive so late to the table for this one, but seeing as you're thinking about Astoria, then look at Roosevelt Island as well. Any true New Yorker will look down their nose at you/have never been themselves, but for families it's a great place. 2 stops to Bloomingdales, 30 minutes or less to downtown.
Lots of UN families because it's cheaper than Manhattan and that has really improved the local public school up to the end of Junior School (10 years) which now has a gifted and talented section.

Our kids (8&9) regularly play outside on the soccer/basketball/baseball pitches on their own which you could never do in most of the rest of New York and because of the apartments being filled with kids from their schools we often don't see them for hours on end at the weekends as they spend so much time with their friends. There are nurseries as well.
The views are great as well :-)
Check out Manhattan Park and The Octagon, Roosevelt Island for examples of apartments.
I would say don't come at all for $55k, but if you can stretch the $90k a little further and squeeze into a 2 bed (and it will be small!) then I think it's doable...
Good luck

You should also look at Forest Hills and Kew Gardens in Queens. Some of the best public schools (ps 101, 144, 196) and the E train runs express to downtown. Plenty of apartments, families with normal incomes, safe and possible to manage without a car.

Daycare don't take $3000 a month apart from the most expensive in Manhattan maybe. Our local one is $1800 and our nanny charges $15/hour (usually just the baby but sometimes all three).

Things are expensive here but many many families live on moderate incomes. Some things are bargains - a subway ride is only $2.50 no matter how far you go including a free transfer to a bus, we just ate out at our favorite Mexican place and stuffed ourselves for less than $10 per person. It's not all.horrendously expensive!

I know this is an old thread but interested to hear if you moved @camberwellred? Thinking of doing the same next year but we wouldn’t be earning the same as you.

You won’t get a dependent visa unless you are married. Doesn’t matter if you live together, have children together, etc. For an L-2 you MUST be married. So a trip to the register office is needed before you book Pickfords.

$55k for a family in New York City? No way on this earth I’d do that. I’d be reluctant as a single person. I’m on the other side of the country but even here in the sticks $55k would be a miserable life. Groceries and utilities are all much higher here than in the UK.

Sure there are people who live here on $55k and less. But they didn’t uproot their entire family for that and citizens here are entitled to certain forms of welfare if they are on low incomes (food stamps, etc). Vida holders are not even permanent residents here (you have even fewer rights than green card holders) and are not entitled to any welfare. No Obamacare, no food stamps, no section 8, nothing. There is no child benefit here. You already know there’s no NHS (although you pay a lot less tax so for me that point is always moot - I pay $425 per month total for healthcare for my husband, company pays for me in full, on my $150k salary in the UK on the equivalent pay I’d be paying a lot more tax and NI than I do in tax and healthcare here).