Please, need help with bilingual primary schools in Paris

[leso169]

Hi all!
It's my first post here, so please be patient ;)

We are currently planning to move to Paris with our family following a professional opportunity. I will work in La Défense, but we haven't decided where we'll live yet; it will mainly depend on the school we choose.

Our biggest concern right now is finding a suitable bilingual school for our children: a boy aged 6 (born in 2008), a girl aged 3 (born in 2011), and another boy aged 2 (born in 2012).

Whilst all our children were born in the UK, where we have lived for quite a number of years, we speak Spanish and Italian at home, and they get English everywhere else, so English is their more dominant language.

We've tried to do as much research as we could online, and ran into a couple of posts here about these schools that we found really useful, but they're a bit old and were wondering if anyone had more recent information. There certainly is a lot of knowledge in this forum!

It's quite important to us that our children integrate to the French lifestyle, as we don't have any plans to move again, at least not in the near future. It is equally important that they continue to speak English. For these reasons, we have been spending more time looking at schools offering bilingual programmes. Our children don't speak any French at all (we parents do), so we are very interested in the adaptation/supporting programmes offered by Ecole Jeannine Manuel or Ecole Internationale Bilingue for example. We are also interested in Lycée International. We're trying to decide which school(s) to apply to, and were wondering if anyone had any advice on:

1. What schools offer the 'best' adaptation programme for non french speakers
2. How realistic it is to get a place (or several) at these schools at this time of the year? Depending on the school, we will need to apply for our 3 and 6 year old children, or just our 6 year old. Applications are expensive! ;)
3. We are in principle looking to get places for the next rentrée in September 2015, but would be willing to move with our children earlier if that helped. Would this be better or worse in terms of available places and our chances to get them?
4. I'm planning to go to a meeting at Lycée International at the end of January. I'd like to visit at least one other school if possible, should I try to go to Jeannine Manuel or to Ecole Internationale Bilingue first?
5. Ecole Jeanine Manuel asks for standardised tests such as WSSPI, WISC or ERB as part of their application. Does anyone know where to get those tests carried out in the UK (London, Sussex, or other South East locations)?
6. Are there any other schools that you would recommend? We don't have an education allowance so need to be quite mindful of school fees.

Sorry for the very lengthy list of questions. We have moved countries several times but never with the children, so we're quite nervous about how the change will affect them... We need to get it right!

Many thanks in advance for any help you can give!

Kind regards,

L & N

Phew - don't want to sound discouraging, but I think you will have your work out keeping up the English especially with the two and three year olds while they learn French from scratch while speaking Spanish and Italian at home. My Dcs were fluent German speakers when we moved from Berlin, but with French at school and English at home they soon lost it (though have maintained a native accent now they are starting to relearn). My Dcs are at Massillon which has lots of multi-lingual kids in either the German or English native sections. It is essentially a French school though and places in primary are as rare as hen's teeth. I was going to suggest putting them in a French primary to get their French up to scratch, but that would be hopeless in terms of maintaining their English. Call for Bonsoir - she will know what to do!

Definitely try to meet Kelda Knight, the head of the immersion programme at EIB Monceau, as she will be very helpful. Your DC born in 2008 will undoubtedly get a place in immersion at EIB for September 2015 (when he will be entering CE1/10eme) but getting a spot in Maternelle for your DC born in 2011 (in Moyenne Section) might be difficult, so don't hang about. Your DC born in 2012 should get a place in Petite Section, which is not usually oversubscribed because it is half days only.

You will need a FT nanny if both of you are going to be working so you need to factor in the cost of that.

thanks LilianGish, for your reply and willingness to help. I agree we'll have trouble keeping up the English... It's already a challenge with Spanish and Italian ;).

Bonsoir, thanks for the very helpful advice. I've been in touch with EIB Monceau and have a meeting arranged there for when I'm in Paris. Let's see what our chances are with regards to availability in their Moyenne Section.

On a side note, and I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but do you know if the cost of keeping the children in maternelle is somewhat deductible from income tax? A friend mentioned that to me, but Im not sure his would apply

No school fees are tax deductible.

You need a proper tax advisor btw. Don't try to relocate without one.

Hi
At this age your children, especially the younger ones, will pick up French very quickly. So, either you put them in a French maternelle, or an international (watch out, this does not mean a 100% English programme) school. In the international schools the dominant language will be French, not English. English accounts for 6 - 10 hours per week. I think all such schools have language immersion programmes.

My daughter started at an international school in Petite Section, of a school in the western suburbs surrounded by kids who speak 3 and 4 languages easily. She only speaks 2 and is in the minority even today.

Children have an amazing capacity to learn languages if they are exposed to those languages through play especially, on a daily basis, so I wouldn't worry too much about the language acquisition.

If you want a school which provides a curriculum 100% in English, then I know only of the British International School of Paris, in the western suburbs, but fees are $$$$$$$.

In our school there is quite a big Italian community, and quite a few Spanish speakers, so an international school would be ideal for exposure to these languages.

Depending on the school, Petite Section is possible for full days, our daughter did this, except on Wednesdays where it is half day only. At the time I felt guilty, but actually it was fantastic, because out of a class of 18, only 5 or 6 stayed in the afternoon, so they had the teacher all to themselves. They did have a nap though, then they all had gouter together.

Re the tax question, as I recall we deducted some things from our tax declaration until the CP class. I don't think it was for the fees, but it was more for after-school care.

Good luck in your search.

Hi again,
I thought that after some time it would be useful to give an update on our situation.

We've had mixed experiences with several schools:

1. Lycée International: unfortunately our DC did not get offered a place. Part of the feedback on the day of the interviews was that English is not as strong in our household as they would recommend, especially for our younger ones. It's a shame, but we also had mixed feelings about the facilities in the school (the toilets that children are supposed to use were absolutely dreadful!) and the logistics around the externé system that would have applied to our younger ones. The assessment of our youngest DS included games and interactive playtime with a small group of other children. Parents were allowed to be present. We can't say much about our DD's assessment, as she was asked to go in alone. Our oldest DS' assessment included some readings and general conversation in English, and then a separate session with the French teacher for the adaptation lessons, who also asked him to do some math.
2. EAB Jeannine Manuel: we had our DD and our oldest DS interviewed in London. It was a bit strange because they were also interviewing French speaking children for their London based school, and so our DD was the only one looking for a place in Paris. Not sure how the assessment was arranged, but it was somewhat awkward that all the instructions etc. for the games and interactive playtime were given in French for the benefit of the other children, and we felt our DD was a bit lost. Also, we found the school staff really pushy with some children who were clearly not in the mood to join in. Our oldest DS had a better experience, at least from what we could see. He was asked to read out loud different texts, to do some math exercises and mental calculations. Unfortunately, we received an official letter stating that he wasn't accepted, but we never received one for our DD. We're assuming she wasn't accepted either, but who knows... In any case we don't think we could cope with the logistics of having the children at different schools within central Paris.
3. EIB Monceau: we had a very good experience during the visits, and the children had a very good rapport with their interviewers there. The interviews for our younger DC included some time with us parents and then some time alone with each child separately. The interview for our oldest DS included math and general conversation in English, but it's hard to provide further details as parents were not present. We're now quite pleased because all three of them got offered places! Originally, our DD was on a waiting list (not many places are made available at Moyenne Section), but they confirmed a place shortly after.
4. L'Ermitage: based on the negative reviews online and the feedback seen here and in other websites (both in French and in English), we were a bit reluctant to send applications to L'Ermitage. However, we felt that there was so much uncertainty around the other schools that we had to have at least a backup plan. All three children have been offered places, subject to interview which hasn't taken place yet.

We are now quite convinced we'll confirm registration at EIB Monceau. We have a good feeling about it and think our DC will be happy there. However, we still had a few questions maybe someone here can help us with:

1. Logistics: we're quite nervous about where we choose to live, as one of us would have to take all three children to school in the morning, go back to pick up or youngest DS who will be attending only half days, and then back to pick up the other two DC at potentially different times. We were wondering if anyone had any ideas about how possible it is to do this by car (i.e. Could we park for about 10min whilst we take our DC to their respective buildings?). Otherwise, how do people usually get their DC to the school?

2. Entry/pick up times: do parents take/pick up their DC to/from the entrance of each building? Or to/from the main site at Avenue Van Dyck?

3. Are there immersion classes on Wednesdays? We got our notes confused as all three DC would have different timetables, and we're not sure anymore; we couldn't find a definitive answer in their website.

4. What do people do on Wednesdays with their DC? It seems odd as it's almost expected that one of the parents doesn't work...

Sorry for the very long post. We hope this may help other people, and also that someone can help answer our other questions.

Thanks,

L & N

1. Live around Villiers e.g. rue du Rocher, lots of beautiful residential rental, very Paris, Levis fresh market, many French families, super easy to Parc Monceau and to La Defense (line 2 + walk 1 min + line 1, very reliable)... less nice around Ternes, Sablons etc which is busier and noisier

2. and 3) I'm sure some eager EAB Monceau mothers will answer.

3. Choose to work 4/5eme

It's really great that you'll be working.

Well done on getting three spots at EIB Monceau.

Your DC in PS and MS could be placed either at the Van Dyck main building or at the Petit Monceau building on Boulevard Malesherbes (other side of Parc Monceau). Your DC in Immersion will be at the Vigny building. DC are dropped/collected from the building which they attend.

On Wednesdays DC do extracurricular activities that you must organise. Your non-French speaking DC would do best if they could attend activities in French ASAP as your DC are likely to lack exposure.

If you are both working you will need a nanny. Three DC and no family support living in Paris makes a nanny a non-negotiable essential.

French nanny would also increase French immersion.

Or possibly English speaker to try and maintain English - just remembered you don't speak that at home.

Hi again!
Thanks all for your very useful messages. We're now considering the nanny route based on your comments... It's not something we naturally think of, so we would have to get used to the idea.

Does anyone know of any resources, or places to start looking for one? As LillianGish suggests, we think an English speaking one would be more adequate in our situation. Would there be any legal/tax/contributions implications to take into account? (i.e. since we would be employing someone). What kind of costs should we consider?

We're quite happy that things are falling into place, as choosing a school essentially means choosing where to live too, but there are still so many other questions!

IMO As you are new to Paris you would do well to recruit a nanny who speaks French and knows the ropes ie with experience in a Paris. Try joining Message, an English speaking parents' support group here, for help.

Hi L, wondered if you'd tried www.speaking-agency.com in the nanny hunt? They are expanding nationwide with native speaker nannies/language teachers so must be doing something right :)

Hi Leso169,
We are facing the same problem you had in 2015. We are half italian family, but my kids speaks French, only some worlds in English. We would like also to try to place them in EIB Monceau and I would like to ask before your feedback about the school ? Maybe some advice on how to get the place.

Thank you in advance.
Horca

The easiest way to get into EIB Monceau is to apply! It’s an oversubscribed school but it looks favorably on international families and there are always quite a few Italian or half Italian children there. EIB Monceau primary is a very good school but EIB College is a mess. La Tour is a very good option for college and lycee, especially if you are a trilingual international Catholic family - just the profile La Tour is after (with good academics of course).