Job offer in Saudi - please could you help with the package?

[starrystarrynights]

DH has just been offered a role in Riyadh.

Basic salary is 7000 GBP per month. Accommodation/travel is around 2.2-2.4k GBP per month.

School fees are 19,000 Riyal per child (I've queried this with Dh as that's around 4k GBP, a lot less than we pay in London at the moment!)

I wanted to query from you wiser Mumsnetters hiw this stacks up in terms of accommodation costs and package. I'd have expected more for school fees and in not sure if the accommodation allowance will cover accommodation.

He can negotiate but it would be good to have a view of a sensible ball park figure!

a typical Saudi package

There's no amount of money that will have me even visit, never mind live, in such a despicable place.

do people go to these places solely for ££££?

I did some work with Saudi lawyers and was shocked to read their professional documentation referring to women who were single as whores who were sex crazed because they didn't have a man to have sex with. I would not live there for any money definitely not with dc

I lived in the Middle East for 5 years (UAE). I would not move to Saudi for a million pounds a month. But then I value the quality and cultural richness of our family life, and educating my children to be tolerant in a fair and equal society far higher than salary. If you are really serious, essential that you know before you go where you will live (I.e if you can get on a compound) and you need to do a look see... I know you were only asking for advice on remuneration, so sorry if you are already fully informed on the other aspects of moving there.

I have a friend living in Saudi in a town near Riyadh for approx 10 months now. She went out with her husband and lives on a company compound for a Saudi company.

Firstly, the family accommodation that was offered as part of the package did not materialise. They had to live off compound for 3 months and then move into a 1 bed apt with their children. The accommodation is still under construction apparently.
Off compound she found v isolating for obvious reasons - it's a long working day out there and it was blistering hot so nowhere to go other than a shopping centre with her kids.
She says that she is enjoying life now that she's within the compound but living in such small accommodation is restrictive. It's only cool enough since Nov to spend any time outdoors.
She had to individually document and catalogue every single item that they shipped out or took with them. Photo albums, christmas decorations, childrens picture books all had to be left at home.

Restrictions on women are well documented and you are already getting plenty of "are you mad" comments on here.

My sister lived in Bahrain for a year with her husband. She worked in an international school there and seemed to really enjoy her year. No idea which one but this one has fees listed in the local currency
www.britishschoolbahrain.com/default.asp?action=category&id=35
She said it was extraordinarily hard to get a school place though and the standards were v v high. Her normal working day was 7.30 to 6/7 as there was tons of lesson planning and other stuff.
She could drive, dress normally aside from religious sites which surprisingly she could enter, go out without her husband and alcohol is available.
Everyone drives everywhere so the traffic is horrendous

I personally wouldn't go there but you may have very good reasons to consider it.

The package is up for negotiation if they need your husband's skills badly enough they'll make it happen.
I'd want a guaranteed school place an at international school in Saudi or Bahrain with the fees covered
Visa or some sort of arrangement so your husband could live in Bahrain and work in Saudi
If living in Saudi, then suitable accommodation for a family guaranteed on a compound, otherwise full repatriation costs for your family built in as a breach of contract.
Insurance provided by the company against a terrorist incident resulting in death or injury to anyone in your family.
What is the evacuation plan if the political situation worsens.
Clearly spell out under what circs you can break the contract and come home - be clear at who's cost if you have possessions to ship.

Accomm allowance may not be such an issue if you can rent out your home in the UK and turn a profit to offset two lots of rent. Bahrain property market is v depressed and there is a lot of empty property there.

How long is the contract for? If you all stayed behind in the UK, what financial and holiday allowance would they give your husband to travel home to see his family. Not ideal for any marriage but it's not like Saudi is the red light district of the Middle East.

If financial circs dictated to my family that this was an opportunity that could not be turned down, given the political situation in the Middle East I would not be taking my family to live there. It will be a damn sight easier to evacuate your husband than your whole family.

A lot depends on whether the offer is with a Saudi company or an International on.

Agree with much that has already been said above. You need to make sure you have accommodation on a Western compound before you sign anything - Kingdom, Arizona, Cordoba are a few of the good ones, but good accommodation is hard to find. I worked while I was out there at an international nursery which made life bearable as I am not a coffee morning type of person - OK now and then but not all the time.

It is not possible to live in Bahrain and commute daily to Riyadh, nor would it be possible for you and your DC to live in Dubia unless the company has an office there and are prepared to sponsor you - without sponsorship in UAE you won't be able to get your DC into school.

I loved it and I hated it - I love the Middle East (feel like it is my spiritual home) but still found Saudi amazingly frustrating at times. But the smells and the noise and the people make it an amazing place, despite all it's awful parts; it is a country full of wonderful people a lot of whom have so much to contribute but can't because of their gender. It is also a country full of entitled idiots but then what country isn't ?
But I met some wonderful people (and also some of the worst people I have ever met - the level of racism and bigotry amongst the Western ex-pats is incredible) - it is a country that is struggling to change and at the same time struggling to stay the same which causes problems all around.
I am heading out for a visit next month and can't wait - and I know when I get on the plane to leave I will be sad.
A bit of a random brain dump - but have been thinking about KSA today on hearing the news that the King has died.

Just want to echo what others have said, don't go.

For a start, I don't think your package is so good if accommodation on a Western compound isn't guaranteed. Life outside isn't a life, it's little more than a prison sentence.

Are your dc still in Primary school? Fees increase every school year. My DS, final year, school fees were 60,000 a year, my DD 55,000, IGCSEs years. So if the company aren't reflecting this, you'll be paying it yourself, along with exam fees and registration. Also, all International schools are not the same, even if they have British in their title.

Commuting to Bahrain or Dubai sounds great, but it's a long commute and I'm pretty sure you have to be a resident - in Dubai for sure - to get the dc into school. In Bahrain, I don't think that rule still applies. I have friends who have just moved from Saudi to Bahrain, but still have their residence as Saudi so they can 'return' if they need to and their DHs do commute, but to Jubail/Qatif on the East Coast.

IME, employers embellish their offers and when it comes to the crunch, they hold all the cards - and sometimes passports too - they OWN you. If they decide to change the package after it's all signed and sealed, there is NOTHING you can do. If you're lucky, you get to actually leave. Our package was change, but they only told us when we stepped off the plane ( what were we going to say??) and they still owe us over $17,000! This was the company everyone wants to work for and is held up as the platinum standard. Ethics in Saudi only exist to benefit the Saudis.

TBH, there's very little I miss about Saudi. Everything you have to do is so flippin complicated - just buying stationary for example takes hours and may take 4 or 5 attempts to get! My friend spent 6 hours buying her DS a bike, I'm not joking. The level of frustration has to be experienced to be believed I think. I think this is part of why folk who do live there are kind of insane - that and the moonshine - you do what you can to cope and count off the days til you leave.
Surely that tells you all you need to know? If the country is so great, how come everyone - even Saudis - holiday elsewhere? If the best thing about a country is leaving it, how great is it to stay there?

It is.
This is how it went the month I needed more paper for the printer.
Realised I had no paper - you can change what I needed pretty much with anything (apart from booze or pork as they are forbidden) the process is the same.
Went to the shop on the camp - I have to explain a few things. Firstly, this was during the day at about 11 am, women can't drive, the camp bus left at 9 am and only does the shopping trip 3 times a week. Get a taxi? Well, only if they answer the phone and only if they have a driver available (can be bothered) And prayer time is from 11.20 ish so shops close (if they open at all during the morning) from 20 ish minutes before to give the workers a chance to pray. They stay closed til around 4 ish. Going to the shops around 4 ish also has problems as it may be 4 or 5 or 6 when they reopen. Then there is another prayer time about an hour later when everything closes again, quickly followed by another prayer time. By 8 most places are open til around 9 or 10. Back to the paper. I'd previously bought said paper. There were notebooks in the place in the shelf where it lived. So I look around trying to find it. I went and found an assistant.
Me: Hi there, how are you today?
Him: Hi ma'am, I'm fine how are you?
Me: I'm marvellous, thank you so much for asking! (No I kid you not)
Him:can I help you today?
Me:why yes, I'm looking for paper for my printer.
Him: no ma'am we no have.
Me:oh, have you none left?
Him:no ma'am, we no have.
Me:when will you get a delivery?
Him:no ma'am, we never have!
Me:yes you used to, I used to buy it here, it used to be right there on this shelf.
Him:(laughing at me) no ma'am, we never have, you is mistaken. You mix with another shop.
He goes off laughing. I go home and decided as the paper is needed for school I have to brave the shops outside at 4. 4 comes, no taxis, so I have to wait til 5 when I know my DH will get in, but we'd need to be quick as the shops will start closing for prayers. Off we go. First shop was shut, next 3 didn't have any, it was now prayer time so we go home paperless.
Next day, compound bus day to the city not local shops! It takes an 1 1/2 hours to get there, it's now 9.30, getting close to prayer time. Run from shop to shop in the abayer(long black cloak) no paper. Get back to the bus stop. On the 90 ish minute drive back, I decide to cobble together the random sheets we have at home or see if I can scrounge a few sheets from someone else. Go home paperless again, but resolve to buy a whole box of the stuff.
The next few shopping trips involve me looking for paper and failing. I did manage to get some old foolscap paper which we used but it's not school standard, good job the school know the problems. About a month after the initial foray to buy the paper, I turn down the aisle in the camp shop and LO and behold, paper!!! I'm so happy, I see the assistant I previously spoke to about the missing paper
Me: Hi there, how wonderful, you have paper today!!
Him: Hi ma'am, how are you?
Me: I'm marvellous, thank you so much for asking! I'm so happy you have your paper delivery!!!
Him:yes.
Me:when did it come in?
Him: no maam, we always have.
Me:er, no you've not had any for a few weeks.
Him:no ma'am, we always have you is mistaken. You mix with another shop. (Goes off laughing, again).
I bought 4 packs just to be safe. We usually use about 2 packs a year, so we should be good for a while.

As for the bike incident, it was a friend if mine this happened to. She and her DH booked a taxi to go to the city - there's the first 1 1/2. First shops only had small bikes, next shop the same. It was now prayer time. So they wait in the taxi. Next shop can get them a bike, but not right then. Next prayer time, more in car waiting. Next shop has the bike, but has to call their other shop to bring it. By now desperation is setting in so they agree. Bike eventually turns up, but it's too small. Last shop as it's now 10 pm, has a bike, in the shop, the right size, costs a bomb, but by now she's lost the plot so she buys it. It's after midnight before they walk back through the front door. She's not ate since lunch time, has spent too much and has to be up in 5 hours for the work/school routine. So it was 8 hours, not 6 in the end.
This is NORMAL life in Saudi.

My DH has just been offered a job in Saudi and we are seriously considering it as well.

I have 2 boys (10 and 4) so its a huge upheaval for us but in terms of what they are offering it would be enough to pay our mortgage off very quickly.

My husband already works over there and other places in the ME a lot of the time so our boys don't hardly see him at the moment which is one of the reason Im considering it.

He has been offered around 18K a month though plus all living expenses, education and medical cover which seems quite a bit more than the package your DH has been offered. Its in Riyadh as well.

Feel free to PM me if you want a chat.

British expat website will help
britishexpats.com/forum/middle-east-60/

Hi,
I am attending an interview on 18th May 2016 with Al wefag food company in india for research executive position in R&D in jeddah. I have a 4 year experience with unilever research & development. I am a chemical engineer by discipline and i work in product development research. I want to go to saudi arabia for work. But i don't know expenses there and i have a family here. I don't have any siblings. My father and mother is too old. I want to take them with me where i live and work, so that i can take care of them. Otherwise, they don't have anyone to care for their elderly life. Is it possible to take my wife and my parent's with me. How should i negotiate with an employer for the same? Right now with my experience i get a 4000 sar per month in bangalore in india. How much should i expect for my position with an experience i have and considering the cost of living in saudi arabia is almost 100% higher than india can i expect the range 15000 sar to 20000 sar? kindly guide me in this. I want to go but lot of other things also stopping like my family, i don't know what to do. Need your help & EXPECTING YOUR REPLY.
Thanks,
Siraj

Hope your interview went well.
Your unlikely to get visas for your parents and in-laws to reside here. The barrier to jump to prove there are no options but to bring them with you is very high.

Consider housing, medical insurance (school fees??) and trips back home as the major expenses. I imagine electricity could also be expensive given the amount of air con we use (included in our rent, so dont know exact costs).
Subsidies are being removed, and possible tax on goods to be added . Cost off living here will only go up. Only you can look at the circumstances and see if the works for you.

The sheer mention of having to live in a compound, let alone in that country would put me off for life.
Sound a real treat!!!

Hi, we're in Riyadh at the moment.
The salary offer sounds good, although it is totally normal here to negotiate higher than the offer is.
Re schooling: that allowance won't cover the major Riyadh international schools. Which schools are you considering? The age of children hugely affects the fees too.
Accommodation: the amount you say sounds reasonable. BUT you may have to pay considerably more if you want one near the school. Roads here are absolutely dreadful and you won't want children in a school bus for longer than necessary. Also, you probably won't want DH to be travelling too far to his work either. We are in the east of the city and the school bus to both American and British schools leave at 6.45am and get back to compound between 4-5pm.
Some of the more popular compounds have waiting lists and a backhander of £800-£2000 is normal to go to the top of the list.
Before we moved here, my DH negotiated with the company for myself and the children to visit for 5 days, look at compounds etc. It's worth doing that if you can.
Also, be prepared for a long wait between your DH starting work here and you joining him. Applying for family visa is along process and usually takes 6-9 months.
It's an interesting country to experience!

Whoops just realised I replied to an older message!!