Advice - cost of living in Singapore..please help Singaporian mumsnetters!

[Gurraun]

Hi
I posted a little while ago about a possible move to Singapore - thanks to all those that answered.

It has now moved on and DH is going out to meet his potential new boss in a month or so. It is an 'in region' job so no expat package, but it a huge promotion. However, to know if it makes financial sense for us (we'd at least like to come home after 2/3 years a bit better off than we went) I would really appreciate some advice on the cost of living (which I know is high). I would be so grateful if some Singapore mumsnetters would help me out...

Rent (I am not sure on the areas but perhaps East Coast) - ideally I would like somewhere with outside space but know that is a big ask. Having looked at some websites for a 3 bed it looks like at least £3000 GBP per month?

International schools - DS1 will be year one, that looks between £11 - 15k per annum (GBP?)

Kindergarten - DS2 will be 2, he loves nursery at the moment, are there nice pre-schools and if so how much?

Transport - I know no-one has cars. How much will it be roughly for DH to commute in from say East Coast area per month? How much should I budget for transport to get DS1 to school and for me to get out and about somewhere each day?

Bills/utilities - how much are these in a 3 or 4 bed apartment eg electric, water, rates (?) etc

Furniture - I understand most rentals are unfurnished. What would be average cost to furnish - understand quite a good second hand market from ex pats leaving..?

Food - what is an average weekly or monthly food bill for a family of 4 (happy to go to markets etc but would use supermarkets too)

Health Insurance - hope work would cover this but if not, what is the monthly cost of this per person?

Dentist/hairdressers etc - rough visit costs for different things?

Clubs/leisure - I wouldn't be working so guess I might like to join a gym and know people join the UK or US club (not sure what these are) and would want to take DS2 to some groups or something. What is the cost of kids activities, cinemas etc?

Eating out/nights out - I know that the answer to this is how long is a piece of string, but what is the average cost of a meal out - not high end but perhaps somewhere mid-range (though appreciate there will be some local gems). What would a bottle of wine cost or a couple of G&Ts?

Local international travel - one of the things that excites me about going is the number of people who say they long weekend abroad eg Thailand, Bali etc - what is average cost of getting to those places?

Anything big I have missed? Any other advice, comments very welcome.

thanks

Oh forgot, all DH colleagues who have done a stint in Singapore had live in domestic staff - typically housekeeper/nanny? Is that usual, if not is it usual but not to live in? What is the cost of this (I don't want to exploit anyone obviously but love the idea of someone to keep my house clean!!)

There are several posts about exactly this from the last couple of years, some very detailed. Do a search and hopefully you should find them?

Re the UK or US club a Google search gives more info...

www.britishclub.org.sg/

www.amclub.org.sg/

Oh ok, great thanks. I assume prices have not moved dramatically up or down in the last couple of years?

I agree with your ball park numbers for the rent and school fees. You can rent a car for around $1400 a month or even less if you shop around.

However the costs of transport, utilities and food depend on lots of factors. Will DH be using taxis or the bus/MRT? Will you eat hawker food and shop in Fairprice or visit Dempsey and Cold Storage? Will you run the aircon and tumbledryer or have ceiling fans and a washing line? Local hairdresser or Toni and Guy? Part time young helper or full time experienced helper? Cheap B&B in resorts or 5* hotel? Budget airlines or flag carriers (actually you can google flight costs pretty easily)?

Your costs will vary hugely depending on how you are going to live out here.

Prices have edged up but haven't changed hugely recently I reckon.

Thanks, appreciate your help and comments. I have looked at some older threads and it is pretty eye watering if we want to live to a nice standard and enjoy our time out there (but not live the high life). I am readjusting some of the things in my spread sheet and there are things I hadn't even considered! Feeling daunted!! Someone could make a business out of spreadsheet templates, filled out for varying life styles!

Imho without an expat package and one child in school you would need at least 130k GBP to be able to enjoy the experience, travel etc.

Be careful to budget in price increases in international school fees of 5-10% per year, plus the registration and infrastructure fees (and often "technology" fees). School bus $400-500 per term depending on how far you live away from school. Helper $1200-1500 per month (including levy to the government, insurance, food, travel back to her home country etc) or part time live out help at $15-20 per hour. Most of the other items will depend on how you live (do you want to eat strawberries for $10 a up bet for papaya for $2? are you fussy about organic? We're a family of 5 and spend about $350 per week, being fussy about meat, fish, chicken and eggs, but no organic anything and no pricey kids snacks like Organix rice cakes. Utilities can vary a lot but electricity is extremely expensive here. Ditto petrol.

That should read $10 a punnet!

Thanks, really useful advice - keep it coming!

It's been over a year since we left singapore so I won't comment on prices but make sure you factor in an annual trip to the UK if you want that, also make sure you factor in moving / shipping costs are covered as well as temp accommodation while you are looking for your apartment there. I would also advise putting the cost of a return flight and return shipping costs to one side and never touching it. That way you can all get back if you don't settle / get made redundant etc.

Forgot some important things!

You can eat out cheaply at hawker centres (cheap serve yourself noodles etc) but a pizza meal with a couple of glass of wine will cost $100+ and it's all up from there! Alcohol is crazily expensive - glass of wine at a bar $20+, cheapest (not very nice) bottle of wine you'll find in a supermarket will be $25. Bottle of gin costs about $50.
Haircut and colour is $200 minimum.
Travel is cheap if you compare getting to Bali from Europe, but it does add up. I'm averaging a bit but even with cheap airlines flights/tax/luggage are $200+ per person, accommodation depends on where you stay of course but resort type places (not Four Seasons, but 4* type places with nice pool etc) are approx $250 per night. Of course you can find bargain flights etc, but they seem rare now and hard to get if you need to travel during school holidays.
Club membership costs about $8000-$15,000 to buy in, and then $300ish subscription fees each month, plus what you spend there on eating out etc. The American Club is way more expensive unless you are American or Canadian.
The thing that shocked me when we came was the cost of kids' activities - toddler gym is about $40 per session, ditto toddler music. Swimming classes are approximately $25 per week. There are some cheaper playgroups (have a look at Meetup) but sport, swimming etc really adds up, and is usually paid per 10 week term instead of a weekly payment.

Thank you. It sounds eye watering but i guess if you factor in the tax advantages and compare to UK it's not so bad....

Tax advantages often pay for school fees.

It depends why you're going too. If you want to go for the experience and all that it brings that's a good mindset to have and if you don't go you may regret it? But I think part of that experience is about not having to watch every penny!