Stuttgart?

[snowmummy]

There is a vague possibility of us moving to Stuttgart for a couple of years. Does anyone have experience of the International School of Stuttgart? Where is nice to live?

Thanks in advance.

No experience but do you know Germany at all? It is a good place to live if raising a family.

No, I know nothing. I've never even been there!

I'm about an hour away from Stuttgart, in Karlsruhe. Sorry I don't know anything about the school or immediate area, though if there's anything else I can help with?

Hi Bertie. Thanks for your offer of help. Could you tell me what life in Germany for a family is like in general?

I love it here :) We have a 6yo DS, he's in the last year of kindergarten now. He'll go to a German school, but I have a friend who has kids in the European school here, which is trilingual, English-German-French. I think but I'm not 100% sure, that international schools tend to lean towards American school grades and curriculum.

I like the fact that children are expected to be more independent, and are enabled to do so. It's quite alarming at first seeing gaggles of 8 year olds on the tram by themselves but the more you see it, the more you realise that they're absolutely fine and it's in general a good thing. There are also great cycle networks everywhere so people cycle a lot. About half of people with DC under 5 seem to have one of those bike trailers, or a seat if they just have one child.

The schools are completely open which is really strange to me. But this means that children can, and they generally do, go and play in the school grounds at weekends. I really like that. There are also parks EVERYWHERE. And they tend to have interesting things like water pumps. There are also lots of things going on at the weekends, fests, etc. Really really interesting.

Stuttgart has a very strong English speaking population, it's generally the go-to place around here for anything you want to do in English. There's a decent amount of stuff in Karlsruhe, but for things like courses, you can usually find them in Stuttgart. And lots of bands/comedy tours tend to stop there, too. I'm part of an English speakers' group here in Karlsruhe, if you look on facebook or on www.meetup.com you'll almost definitely find something local. This has been my absolute saviour since being here, I would have gone totally crazy without any other English speaking friends. I also found our kindergarten through this group and luckily I get on well with DS' best friend's mum, so that's worked out really well. It's good to have the combined knowledge of people who have been around longer than you, especially if you don't plan to stay long.

If you're based near London/SE in the UK, you'll probably find that the cheapest flights are from Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden, Ryanair to Stansted. You also have Birmingham to Stuttgart via Flybe if you're further North.

Maternity leave is fantastic here, if you're planning to have more DC. Companies have to keep your job open for 3 years and in this time you can return to work part time. You have up to 14 months' paid maternity leave and can share that with your husband. After that, you get a payment either directly or in the form of a voucher for childcare if you're working. KiTa (day nursery) places can be hard to get but not impossible, whereas KiGa (preschool) places are much easier.

Make sure you get a letter from child benefit explaining that you've cancelled your child benefit when you leave. You have to ask for this as it's not automatic. Get it sent to someone in the UK who can forward it on to you if you can. You need this in order to claim Kindergeld in Germany, which you want to do. Make sure you have health insurance sorted out before you leave, especially if you're not married. I had a nightmare with this.

Prostitution and brothels are legal here, which is weird. I don't like the fact that it's very open, although DS has never asked any questions. You might want to google where the red light districts are as property tends to be cheaper around those areas and they often look totally fine when you look at the general area, but just so you know where to avoid!

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head... do you have any specific questions?

Lots of information, thank you. At this point, I'm not even sure what we need to know about other than schools and housing. We're thinking international school as our children don't speak German, we're only going to be there for 2 years and they are verging on secondary school, so at an important stage of their education. We need them to be able to slot back into the UK system when we get back, although to be honest it worries me that we won't be able to enrol them back into decent schools when we do arrive back.

You mentioned health insurance. Is the healthcare system cully private?

No, it's a split system. You have to have health insurance, but there's a difference between public health insurance and private health insurance. Employers usually put you with a public health insurance company, the biggest of those seem to be TK (Techniker Krankenkasse) and AOK (no idea!) but I think there are a couple more. You pay some contributions through your wages and the company pays more and that basically covers everything. Dental, medical, emergency, etc. You get your health insurance card and present it when you need something. You usually get a rep as well for the health insurance and you can find an English speaking one and ask them any questions - definitely this is worth doing. With private health insurance you pay upfront, send the bill to your insurance company and they pay you back. If you earn less than €450 per month, then you can be insured with your husband through his company. If you earn more, then you'll need your own insurance which you'd get through your employer. Being self employed is a total pain and more complex.

I'd be inclined to put them into German schools, TBH, but that's me personally. The beginning of secondary school isn't as important as the last 2-3 years, and it would be a brilliant advantage to them to be semi-or-fully fluent in German by the time they go back. It's something I didn't really pick up until moving here but being bilingual really opens a lot of doors career wise. Most people educated to degree level (ie, teachers! :)) speak enough English to be able to communicate anything important to them, and they will pick it up as they go. If you go with German schools, and your children are over 10 or 11, you'd want to look into the options as they still have a 3-tier system. Gymnasium is the equivalent to the British grammar schools, then there is Realschule, close to a UK state secondary school without sixth form, Mittelschule (less academic, finish at 14/15) or Gesamtschule, which is comprehensive ie it offers all three streams of education. I would say if you're not intending to stay there until they're 18, then it doesn't matter what kind of school they go to, and a Gymnasium might be too demanding in terms of language required.

School in normal German schools is only until lunchtime, there is the option of an all-day school (I can't remember the word now) or a Hort, which is after-school care, which you pay for, but offers help with homework etc. I don't know how much there is in the way of Hort at secondary school level.

Housing. If you are renting you need a lot of money upfront, if the company is not finding you a house. Almost every agent charges commission or "Provisiens" which can be up to 3 times the rent, and that's on top of a deposit. You also want to start looking as far in advance as possible. www.immobilienscout24.com is the equivalent of Rightmove. Look for places which are "provisiensfrei" but generally, expect to pay it and budget for it. You will see "hot" and "cold" rent - "hot" means that it includes "nebenkosten", sometimes abbreviated to NK which is various utilities. Often in an apartment, your electricity, heating, internet etc will be shared with your neighbours and so you pay a proportion rather than being with a company of your own. It will also vary between apartments - some places having a shared electricity cost but not internet, shared water but not gas, etc etc. But basically this is not negotiable and presented as a total price. If you have any help with your company over this, take it, because housing is the most annoying and confusing thing. They can also refuse you, for no reason at all. You want to start looking for houses at LEAST four months in advance, and if you haven't found something with a month or so to go, look for short term accommodation, possibly through the company, or even just a holiday let.

Because landlords can be a total pain, it's a good idea to get legal insurance. You don't need this but a lot of people have it, and if you have an issue, it will save you money in the long run. The other type of insurance most people have is personal liability insurance. This isn't legally required, but practically it is extremely necessary due to the way that the law works here. If you accidentally damage something in any way, you can be sued, this insurance protects you from that and will also cover your DC. I have ours through my bank, but there are various providers. It costs us about €9 a month.

I initially thought German school would be a good opportunity but I'm nervous they'll fall behind their peers whilst learning the language and then be behind when we return here. I've also heard, and not sure if it's true, that the German curriculum is much less creative than here and more regimented. At what age are they streamed into gymnasium, realschule etc?

Renting sounds like an expensive business but that's what we'd be doing. I'm not sure what help would be available. So much to find out...

They're streamed in the equivalent of year 6 (4th class) but the first 2 years of high school, 5th and 6th class are flexible, they can move between the streams in theory. I wouldn't think that they will fall behind at this age - if they were studying for GCSEs then yes it would be a worry. I don't find the curriculum too regimented, in fact individual schools have more leeway to teach as they like. The regimented thing might be because they tend to be less set up for special educational needs, this is true. But there is quite a bit of language support, at least at the lower ages, TBH not too sure about the older ages. You could start a separate thread asking for experiences of posters who integrated older children into foreign schools, there was a recent one by a mum in France.

Are you moving with a company and do they have any kind of relocation package?

Yes, we're moving with a company but it's down to us to negotiate the package.

Just to add to what Bertie said, accommodation in Germany is talked about in square metres rather than number of bedrooms.

My out-laws (DP's parents) live in Feuerbach which is north of the city centre. It's a really lovely area, completely urban but with very good access to the local forest (walking, running) and plenty of trams, buses and a railway station for getting about locally and easy access to the motorways. Just asked DP, he's pretty sure there are 2 gymnasiums, a realschule and 3 primary schools. I've also seen an english -speaking kindergarten advertised locally although this is not something you'd be interested in. Also swimming pool, leisure centre, good range of local shops and 15 minutes into the city centre.

IMO, definitely send your children to a German school. Two years will be plenty of time to get a good grip on the language especially if they're immersed in it, and will allow them to do so much more, and make good local friends outside of school time. They'll then be able to go back to the UK and fly through German GCSEs. I think learning a foreign language as a child makes you a rounder person, appreciate different cultures and potentially opens up a wider range of job opportunities later on.

Could write lots more but won't bore you. Also have a look at Toytown Germany which is a site for expats and will also have info on schools, renting etc.

Oh yes, and on immoscout etc they list things by "4 zimmer" which means it has 4 rooms, not counting kitchen, bathroom or hallways. So could be 2 bedrooms, one living room, one dining room, or 3 beds and one living room. Don't assume because a room is listed that it can be used as a bedroom.

Yep, forgot that bit. The Zimmers will be either bedrooms or living/dining rooms. The Germans think we're really odd talking about 3 bedroom houses because it doesn't tell you how big the whole thing is...

Toytown is a bit scary, though!

Assuming we went for the German school option, how long would it take them to learn enough German to keep up with the curriculum do you think? My reticence is that I'm concerned they'll fall behind their peers here so that there'll be problems when we get back.

Thanks for all the info so far. Greatly appreciated :).

I can't help you with that one I'm afraid as DS is much younger so not learning a curriculum as such yet. But it took just over 6 months for him to understand 70-80% of what was said to him and be able to talk in sentences back and a year in is mostly fluent, though it's hard for me to tell. I don't know how well he'd do in a school setting, which is why we took the option to send him next year. But that's a kind of universal thing, so start a new thread asking specifically about that.

I had come across toytown and thought it seemed a little negative. Is that what you mean Bertie?

Yes - they're quite blunt and not all that welcoming to newcomers, and tend to scoff if you ask a question which was asked once before in 2005 or something. Even if it's clear that the relevant information might have changed. They also sneered at me for saying that I hoped to find work teaching English (I did, within about two weeks) and basically said I was ridiculous for coming over without a concrete job, a child and no health insurance in advance.

Good for you proving them wrong. Do you teach in school or privately?

At a private language school, just to adults at the moment although there are kids classes. They're all in the afternoon and I have DS then so I can't teach at that time.

Ooh! I never knew Toy Town was that bad! I've only ever lurked.