Secondment to Sydney

[MrsDe]

Hi all, I've just been told that there is the opportunity for me to embark on a secondment in Sydney for two years. Amazing opportunity and we're seriously considering it (currently live in London).

I'm chatting to HR about further details but to be honest they seem pretty clueless and I've never done anything like this before so need some guidance.

I have two children six and four and DH is a teacher so will not work initially but would like to eventually if he can. So far the things I'm discussing with HR are:

1. Salary. Apparently my salary would be the same just transferred into my account in AUS dollars. Is that normal? What happens with tax etc?

1. Holidays. It's been suggested that my current allowance of 30 days per year will be reduced to 20 which is normal in Australia. I've said this is not acceptable and I want 30 days. Again, what is usual?

1. Accommodation. I will get a contribution towards accommodation which seems good. From looking at rental sites I think I'm looking at AUSD1,500 - 2k a week. Am I foolish in thinking I'll find somewhere is Sydney with good schools on this budget?

1. Schools. We're starting to look at areas we're interested in and this will be based on good schools for my 6yo and 4yo as well as potential wrap around care. Any experiences?

1. Commuting times - probably looking at the ferry and the North Beaches - sensible?

1. Additional expenses/living costs. What happens with pensions/life insurance? Is it usual for the employer to pay these? I think that pension payment is different to the UK and obviously need to have a conversation with my employer about this but wondered what is normal?

1. Am I mad to even consider this with a young family? My job is quite full on and so potentially long hours (which I do in London anyway). My DH is fully on board and excited about the whole thing (well, he wouldn't be working for potentially 2 years!!).

But on one salary of circa $220k will this be sensible? We will rent out our current house which will cover our UK mortgage/letting fees etc and we're not big spenders or have any other debt and currently manage in the UK with private school fees etc so think we can do this on one salary but I could be just totally naive? Aware of the school fees for professionals on visas etc.

Gosh, sorry about the length of this post! Any help/advice/tips etc gratefully received!

Remember the tax is high! Dh is top tax bracket and pays 47% above the threshold. Just to confirm what take home pay is. Northern beaches are generally $$$! $200k is a good wage. But only one salary and Sydney prices.
It's oh two years. Why not. Kids will love it. A great change. Lots of work for teachers.
I'd be there in a flash!

If you work long hours just be aware that ferries don't run very late. We had to rule out nth beaches because dh would have issues getting home. The rent you're looking at is v generous. We have a lovely 3-4 bedroom house with a decent garden, walking distance to the beach and we pay $1100 per week ( in one of Sydney's nicest suburbs IMHO)
Superannuation (pension) is 9% so clarify if your pay would be inclusive or exclusive of super ( it's referred to as super).
4 weeks leave is normal and life insurance would not be included as standard.
Where would your j

...job be based?

I would speak to an executive relocation agent. We used one when we came over and they were excellent - found us a place to live, would have helped with schools, put us in contact with a visa agent, answered questions like you have. They were great. I can dig up info if you like.

Two years? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

If it's a transfer through your current job, it's worth asking if they will be providing a relocation agent. We had one when we moved back to Sydney. They organised places in a childcare centre, rental furniture for our house while we waited for our own to arrive etc. They even made sure the fridge had milk, bread etc ready for our arrival - absolute gold!

Thanks all, have asked about tax and speaking wtih HR again on Monday - though they were pretty clueless when I spoke with them.

One thing they've said though is that I'll be on the same salary as I am now - just paid in australian dollars. I've had a quick search and it seems as though professionals at my level might be paid more in Sydney. Is it worth challenging this? I don't want to get caught out with exchange rates and the dollar/pound fluxuating.

Thanks about the heads up on the ferry. I'm assuming that I'll be able to get a bus home though if ferries have stopped (we are looking at the Northern beaches). Job is based in the CBD.

It's essentially doing the same job for the same company but in Sydney (though will be jurisdictional differences).

I'll also speak with them about the relocation agent - thanks for the tip.

Brilliant, thanks all!

You would be able to get a taxi home, but that is very circuitous and would take a loooong time. It's not called the insular peninsular for nothing! It is a lovely place to live, though. Are there other areas you're considering?

Hi again Surfsup! - thanks for your reply!

How long would be long? At the moment I'm only 3 mile from my office and so can get a cab home in 15 mins if I work late - take it that's not an option if we live in, for example, Mosman? Would only be getting a taxi if past 9pm or so.

Not really sure of the areas at the moment tbh - lots of research to do.

Mosman is lovely. Have you looked on Realestate.com.au for rentals? It will give you a good idea for prices and what you can afford. Keep in mind that if you move one suburb over prices are often much, much lower.

You can have a look on google maps - it will tell you travel times. (I don't know for northern beaches I'm afraid.)

Public transport is pretty patchy in Sydney IMO and trains are often replaced by buses if there are repairs on. Again, good questions for a relocation agent. That's not to say you can't ask us of course! :)

Google currently (9pm) says 15-20 mins for Sydney - mosman. You could probably add 10 mins at least to that for getting from actual door to door.

Thanks Digger - hadn't thought of looking on Google maps for travel times - good tip (doh).

MrsDe - Depending on where on the Nth beaches you were you could be looking at 40 mins to well over an hour in a cab.
There should still be ferries at 9, though, so have a look at the timetables.
The fast ferries take about 10 mins to Manly I think?
Mosman isn't Northern Beaches and is a lot closer by cab. Probably only 20 mins at 9pm as the traffic isn't so bad then.

Are your offices near Circular Quay?

To clarify, the reason I ask about proximity to Circular Quay is that depending on where the office is located you could easily be a 20 min walk (or a train or bus ride) to the ferry terminal.
If you're not based near Circular Quay then you might think about looking at non-ferry linked areas like Paddington, Inner West (Balmain has ferry links as well as v fast road links), Southern beaches (Bondi, Bronte, Clovelly), Eastern Harbour Suburbs like Rose Bay etc.

Do you want a big house and garden in a quiet leafy area or would you be happier with a terrace and courtyard in an area with a bustling cafe scene and glam shops?
Is being near a beach important to you? If so do you like surf or would you be happier with calm protected waters?
Will you have a car?

I moved to Sydney from London this year with similar aged kids and also for 2 years. I would echo everyone else and say a relocation agent can be helpful - think through your answers to Surfsup questions and they can help you start planning while you are still in UK.

Our experience has generally been positive, we live in North Shore which is a really easy commute to CBD (15 minutes door to door!) as we decided it was just too far getting to the Northern beaches. Schools are great around here, lots of playgrounds, beaches near enough although you have to drive and can pop into the city as well. I think further out would have felt just a bit too suburban for me.

Things we have struggled with is mainly the cost of living. I was told that you should times your UK £ salary by 2.5 and this is the amount in dollars that will give you roughly equivalent lifestyle and we have found this to be the case. My husband earns a high salary, but I still find myself shocked by a cucumber being sold for $4, tennis lessons after school at $250 for a 10 week term and babysitting - we pay an agency fee and then $22 an hour on top of that. Ditto cleaners far more expensive. I'm not sure professional salaries, esp in finance and law are that much higher over here btw.

I found renting our home quite emotionally difficult, had just done an extension and spent a fortune on Farrow and ball paints and was sad to leave a couple of months later for someone else to enjoy/make marks all over. I would also budget for times when the house isn't rented, we had a difficult first month with no one in the house and had to bring the price down a lot to get a rental. Prices in central Sydney are similar to London if not more expensive, my dreams of pool and sea view never materialised!

Finally I found the move quite hard as a trailing spouse. Great your husband is on board, but has he worked out what he will do day to day? I find it difficult, husband goes off to challenging new job, kids settled into school well which is great, but they get to go off and have new experiences. I think lots of trailing spouses feel a bit left out as they just get to potter about at home and try and make new friends.

We've generally had a great experience, I like the fact the kids have learnt about life in another country and have a much more global perspective. We made the right decision, but I do feel I left a lot behind and we won't be paying off the mortgage living over here. I think you need to work out if you want a family adventure, or if this will advance your career or have another good reason for the move. Otherwise there will be days when the kids miss home or you do and it's good to be able to reassure yourself that the move was made for a good reason.

Good luck

PS Specifics, holidays suck here and husband only gets 20 days (down from 28) which is a shame. Also check if your salary includes 'super' which is the pension payment everyone has to make here - you get it back when you leave, but will take 9% off your salary each month.

Hi again Surfsup,

Would like to be near a beach if we can - but not necessarily walking distance. Would prefer calmer waters, not a surfer person!

Aim is to have a car. Yes, we would like to have a big(ish) house and a garden would be fab. We only have a small back yard now but that isn't so bad as we're close to parks etc. I'd like to give the DC experience of having a garden as can't see we can afford one in London!

Yes, offices appear to be close to the ferry terminals so a walk to the ferry port from office is doable I think. We do like the look of Mosman a lot to be honest and it doesn't seem so far out. Not keen on a 40 mins taxi ride - would be prefer to be closer to the office than that I think. Glam shops definitely not important to me!!!

Foodfairy - thank you for your input. Where in the North Shore are you? what are your thoughts on Mosman? Salary wise i'll be on around $220k I think and we'll lose my DH's salary for a while but our school fees and afterschool expenses won't be as high - is that a realistic salary (ball park of course!) or will we struggle do you think?

Financially the rent we'll get will pay off the mortgage when we're here. I'm hoping it will advance my career but no guarantees, we think it will be a great family adventure.

Yes, holidays do suck - having a battle with HR on this as I'll go down from 30 days which is tough as my hours are long anyway. Yup, on my list to check "super" with HR too.

T

We'll also get accommodation allowance which I'm waiting for Hr to confirm but will be at least $1000 per week.

$220k would be ok - not big but manageable if you're pretty frugal and the rental allowance will make a really big difference!

If you want calmer waters, then North Shore will be better than Northern beaches. Mosman is v nice and there are suburbs surrounding it that are also lovely. You may get a bigger garden/house in Cremorne, or Northbridge which are in the same vicinity and equally lovely. Mosman is a bit busier than it's neighbours - more shops etc.
All those suburbs have excellent public primary schools and are a 10-20 min drive to the city and have access to nice harbour beaches and stunning parks etc.
Greenwich is also a spot worth a mention - it's lovely!
On the other side of the bridge Rose Bay might also suit you and Coogee is also a great spot without being too $$$.

Oh and Clovelly! Clovelly is a wonderful little spot - great community, school, calm beach, amazing snorkelling…hmm might move to Clovelly I think!

I think salary will feel like £90000 and only you can judge how well off that will make you feel. Allowance for housing on top sounds good as well.

North shore is great packed full of families, good schools and lovely gentle beach at balmoral which is in mosman. This is a lovely suburb but pricy. You may not have all that much choice so I would look at mosman and then check out nearby suburbs which also have good schools. I would include middle harbour cammeray northbridge and Greenwich. I would check with neutral bay school as when I was looking last year they wouldn't take kids on a 457 visa so we avoided all houses in the area.

I think if they're expecting to get away with paying you exactly the same rate as you're already on then that's a bit of a bloody cheek as the cost of living in Sydney is much higher and that should be taken into account.

If you're on a 457 visa, then you will have to pay school fees even for public (state) schools, so factor that in as well. Your 4yo won't need to start school until they are 5; school year starts in February, and unless the 4yo has a 5th birthday before 31st July, they won't be allowed to start next year but will have to wait until 2016, so factor in that amount of extra childcare (except your DH will be at home, won't he, so may not be that relevant).

The company should provide healthcare cover, as far as I know - certainly include it in the things that you should be getting, as well as relocation costs!

I don't know much about the suburbs of Sydney but I believe Mosman is one of the more expensive and hard to get into (lots of competition for rental accommodation), and has colossal waiting times for daycare (although, again, may not be relevant to you).

Thanks for the tip re Neutral bay and visas. I think if I can get HR to increase accommodation contribution then it might work out financially. I agree that it's a bit of a cheek to pay me at the same level just in dollars and I will query this again on Monday. Don't think it will change though so will focus on increasing the contributions and work out what will happen with super.

Ds will be 5 before the July cut off so will be able to start school. Aware that we will have to pay and have factored that in (still cheaper than our school fees currently). So many things to think about and we want to be out there in January, optimistic I think!

Can't really help with salary, we are on a v low income, yet still live on the Northern Beaches, so we're in different ball parks! However, have to jump in and say transport to here is pretty good. Ferries are every half hour until midnight and buses run late too. I am biased but I think if you are only coming for two years the Beaches give the best of the Australian lifestyle. Many of our friends are on your salary and seem to manage pretty well. The outdoor lifestyle does cost less! :)

Fab, Thanks Lady, that's really great to hear! Were not big spenders but it is worrying that we won't have Dh's salary initially with the cost of living being so high.

One thing I would suggest to you MrsDe is that you stock up on clothing before you come out, as I find clothing here, especially for small children, to be extremely costly. Although given your salary, that might not be such an issue for you . Linens are quite expensive in comparison with the UK too. And if you like Bisto, bring it with you! Gravox just doesn't do it.