Registering a child born overseas as British vs travelling to UK for birth

[LongWayRound]

My daughter is British by descent - born to a "British citizen otherwise than by descent" outside the UK - and therefore cannot transmit British nationality to a child born outside the UK. She is expecting a baby due in Feb 2015, and is wondering whether to travel back to the UK for the birth, which would ensure that the child has British nationality, or having the baby in the country where she and her husband live and then applying to register the child as British. In theory she could do this as she meets the criterion of having lived for a period of 3 years in the UK: she has spent a total of 5 years living in the UK, 4 years at uni and 1 year working. But it is not an automatic right: "An application for registration as a British citizen is at the discretion of the Secretary of State and although such applications are usually granted, there is no guarantee that this will be the case." Has anyone else applied for registration in similar circumstances, and was it granted? Or if you have chosen to return to the UK for the birth, how long before the due date did you travel, and do you have any useful advice I could give her? Link to relevant legislation here - see the section Acquisition by registration: minors.

Not exactly your situation but I hope this helps. I am British otherwise than by descent and my husband is British by descent. Our first two children were born in the UK so received citizenship by birth (meaning they can pass it on to their children wherever the children are born). My son was born a few months into an expat posting, so got citizenship by descent through me, but can't pass it on to his own children.
It would be the same for your daughter's child, as citizenship by registration is equivalent to citizenship by descent (see the notes that accompany the application form).
If I could do it over with a clear head (probably not a good idea to accept an expat posting and move countries at 7 months pregnant...), I'd stay/return to the UK to give birth there to give citizenship by birth to my child. Your daughter would need to check, though, that she'd be covered for a birth in the UK (eg is she still registered with a doctor? Does she have private health care that would cover her?). Most airlines will fly up to 36 weeks, but you need to be on the books with hospitals and midwives etc before that.

Bear in mind that it is not being British that entitles you to NHS care, but living and / or working here.

You need to be able to prove that you live here.

Thanks salted and yak for your replies. AFAIK she is still registered with a GP practice in the UK (where she was resident up until early 2013), but it is not in the area where she would be going if she did decide to give birth in the UK. I think that if you use NHS services without being resident you can be charged by the hospital/surgery (which is fair), and different hospitals may have different criteria for deciding whether someone is resident. Any idea how much she might have to pay for maternity care? If she does take that option would it be a good idea for her to travel to the UK in the fairly near future a) to get her NHS records transferred from the current surgery to one near where she would going for the birth, b) to get an initial appointment with a doctor, and c) to find out how much it might all cost?

I went back to the UK to have dd2 in 2012. I flew at 36 weeks (BA). I am not British, but dd1 and dh are, and as I haven't lived there in a few years, I ended up paying for NHS. I also had to go for an evaluation to see if I was eligible for treatment - the midwife sent me once she realized I had prenatal care in Egypt. I did call and book a midwife appt 2-3 weeks before I arrived.
It actually was fairly inexpensive, but I had a very straightforward birth. 2 midwife appts (I think they were £130 total) and £1500 for the birth. However, I was admitted at midnight, dd was born at 2 and we were back at my inlaws by 11 am.
If anything was wrong with the baby, she would have had NHS care as she is British, but I would have had to pay for any care I needed. I can't remember how much it would have been, sorry.
By far, the most stressful part was getting dds birth registration and passport. Her first trip out of the house was at 16 hours, to get a passport picture - in torrential rain.
We were going to my home country 3 weeks after she was born, and I had to make 5 trips to London (45 mins each way on a train) with her to submit and pick up the passport. They would accept my counter signatory as she was an accountant who hadn't returned to work after having kids, so we had a five hour drive to get another person to sign, the passport office lost her passport - it was misfiled, but still meant another trip to London and I probably spent close to 2 full days on the phone with govt offices. It was hell. This was in June, so peak season for passports, February will be much better.

Thanks alligator, lots of useful detail there :). I'd been wondering about the passport question as well, especially with the delays this year in issuing passports.

Also, DD has been told here that she will need a caesarean delivery, but doesn't know how far to trust the doctors, since this is a country with a very high rate of C section (largely because the doctors and clinics make more money from it than from normal delivery). This is one reason for her going to the UK in the next month or so, to ask for medical opinion in a country where doctors don't automatically try to force women into caesarean birth. Though if she did need a C section, I guess it would be quite a bit more expensive on the NHS... :(

Is the dad british too?

Be careful, DD1 was born in the UK from a british father born abroad and she hasn't got british citizenship. I am not british. We were told that she can ask for a special notification from the minister (we do have to pay for this and they can refuse) to allow her to have it.

The child might not be british even if born in the UK. She will need to research that in more details.

I am British, my husband isn't, we were living overseas with all of them.

We came home for the birth. Travel is restricted, 36 weeks is the cut off, but airlines have their own dates and she would need to check.
It is also not a good idea to fly long distance late in the pregnancy.

We had no trouble with hospital care and payment. There is some clause about emergency and hospital care being available to all, so I was entitled to hospital based midwife care, but the GP care was more unclear.
While it sounds cheeky, I look and sound English, so no-one ever asked, while the Polish women I saw at the ultrasound department seemed to be asked how long they had been resident here.

We had no trouble with passport. Birth certificate on day of birth, photos were interesting and then posted passport form off, it arrived back within about 3 weeks. We traveled when babies were about 5 weeks old.

I would also look at her dhs nationality, would that be an option?

LeMousquetaire - according to information we have found online (British nationality legislation here) as well as advice from lawyers specialising in immigration and nationality issues, a child born in the UK to a British parent is British, whether the parent is British by birth or by descent. Who gave you the information about your child not being British, was it a government department or some other source?

Thanks steppemum. That sounds encouraging.

Her DH is from outside the EU, so needs a visa to travel to UK (and most of the rest of the world) which is why they would like the baby to have British nationality.

... Still wondering whether anyone has applied for registration, and whether the application was accepted?

We applied for a passport for her and it was rejected. We called the home office and that what they told us, apply for exceptional permission from the PM, pay 200£, he might refused, but then you can apply for a passport. We didn't have a spare 200£ at the time so had to do a mad dash to my embassy to get her a passport from there. thankfully they didn't reject her because she wasn't born there

Le Mousquetaire, not sure if this applies to your circumstances but there was a rule that children born before July 2006 to an unmarried British father couldn't get British citizenship even if born in the UK. These children could only take the citizenship of the mother.
This rule changed before my oldest daughter was born. My daughters both got citizenship through their father who is British by descent because they were born in the the UK. If the OP's grandchild is born in the UK he/she will get citizenship.
Can't help on registration, OP.

Yes DD 1 is born before 2006 just, we married when she was 5 months! May be we should reapply? but DD2 is born abroad... gahhhh!

Dh and I have looked for the list of costs of paying for childbirth on the NHS, but appear to have deleted them. He thinks a straightforward CS was about £6000, but is not sure. I am pretty sure the £1500 I quoted above included 4 nights hospital stay for me - should I have needed it.

Watching this thread with interest. DH and I are both British. I am 38+3 weeks pg. Live in the Eu. Decided to have the baby here.

Whilst not entirely happy with the way things are done here I decided I didn't want to fly back to the UK at a late stage in my pregnancy and I know the nhs has its faults too. But this country, whilst having a very high birth success rate, they use no intervention, no gas and air and the cs rate is less than 40 percent. It was a tough choice.

We'd have to pay anyway and the cost here is 1.5k here too same as the nhs. But the admin is terrible and I've seen a different doctor at every appointment so we paid for additional scans and all blood tests privately in order to get results quicker. That's suited us and I don't know if I'd get consistency on the nhs either.

I couldn't decide about the hospital choice for a long time. I spoke to lots of ex pat mums to get advice and read lots of ex pat forums.

But on the passport citizenship front, I might be being a bit naive but I haven't looked into that much yet I have just assumed as long as I register the birth as soon as possible it should be quite straightforward but we're not in a hurry for a passport or particularly worried about citizenship.

MrsNec- British parents born in Britain can register their child as British (you have to prove YOUR status).

If your child is born overseas and has their child overseas...they cannot automatically get a passport. I guess this almost shows no link with UK.

(DH was British by descent, but I am by birth, so our child got a Brit passport through me not him)

Tracey - do you know of any cases where parents have applied to have a child registered as British? We've worked out that the possibility exists, we just don't know how likely an application is to be approved, so we don't know whether it is a risk to rely on this. It is impossible to work out from all the sources which I have looked at whether applications are almost always approved, or whether many are rejected.

Someone can be born outside the UK and live outside the UK, but still have a strong link to the country...

I had exactly the same problem. I was born outside of the UK and have my nationality through my father. I lived in the UK for 25 years which means that different rules apply, unless you had been born overseas and lived all your life overseas.

As your DD (I think) lived in the UK for many years she will be able to apply for her child to have UK citizenship. The difference is that it will cost around 600 pounds.

My DD has Dutch nationality and we moved back to the UK when she was 10 weeks. We have to be here 3 years then we apply for a passport same as anyone else at the normal rate. I had a thread on this in May so I will try and find it and link. She's on my lap at the moment so can't check now!

Longwayround, there has to be a risk that an application for registration won't be approved - it's discretionary, and there isn't much detail about the circumstances in which it will or won't be approved. Even if your grandchild gets citizenship by registration, he/she won't be able to pass it on to his/her own kids born abroad. We know a number of long term expats, who were expat kids themselves, and getting citizenship for their kids also born abroad is proving difficult. IMO, the "best" citizenship (ie citizenship that can be passed down at least a generation) is worth returning to the UK for.

Here's my thread with the advice I received. Very good info about how to apply when you are British by descent but subsequently lived in the UK.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/living_overseas/2028771-baby-passport-enquiries

Advice by inthesleeplessnightgarden and cannotseeanend was particularly helpful.

So long as your DD lived here previously, there is a way and cheaper than paying to have to have the baby here :)

I should add that my mum got into quite a flap about me not having our DD here (and even though we were in the EU and DH is Dutch nothing these days seems to be certain so I don't want to rely on one passport being enough!). Some of the rules she was quoting were very out of date from the days we lived overseas. Not saying you are in a flap at all, but there is an awful lot of misinformation out there and many expats thinking they are an authority when nothing could be further from the truth.

If there is a chance that your DD will be returning with the baby then the baby would also qualify for citizenship after having lived in the UK for 3 years.

Oops forgot to add that I also don't see why the registration would be rejected? It would have to be an extreme case for the Home Office to reject your DD's application for her child? I thought that sentence was in there to prevent all and sundry from thinking that they could get a British passport. Even people born here do not have the automatic right to nationality.

Chances of the Home Secretary ever seeing your DD's application forms would be slight one would hope

good luck with it all, I am sure it is fine.