deutsche muttis! would you accept this school journey for your children?

[cocopopshater]

Hi,

I know that children go by themselves to school in Germany, do you think this journey is acceptable for 3 Grundschule children aged 6,8 and 9?

Walk to the end of the road (5 minutes), catch bus (not school bus), go around 2 km, get off at a shopping centre, walk another 8-9 minutes through a busy shopping/residential area to school.

Same journey home from school. Children must do this journey by themselves.

Boy oh boy oh boy.

Dd just started Grundschule. NO 6 year old I've seen arrives there without an adult. Very few dc in fact seem to turn up unaccompanied, some do, but they are most definitely the minority. We live in the centre of Berlin.

As to your Widerspruch, since they won't consider distance, bus trips etc as arguments in support of your case, I would emphasise the danger of passing through that shopping area and the bypass without adult supervision. I mean it is also going to be DARK in winter!

After this story - see link (13 year old girl), there is NO way and I mean NO way some Beamte is going to tell me I have to send my child unaccompanied to school! All these child kidnappings seem to happen on the way to or from school. Have you noticed?

KidnappedGirl

The school at the end of your street that has places, have they confirmed that they would take your children, if you get permission from the Schulbehörde? If so, just what IS the problem from the point of view of the education authority?

There is no way at all I would have sent dd to our Einzugsschule, but I registered her at a Catholic school which counts as private so I bypassed all that trouble you're having. I didn't have to apply for any permission or anything like that. Just wrote the name of the school on the form they give you at registration, sent them a copy of the letter from dd's school confirming her place. End of story. If you're not applying for a different STATE school from the one they assigned you, there's nothing they can do about it.

As a single mother with 3 kids, if you did send them to a private, say Evangelical or Catholic school, you can apply for fee reduction and would presumably have all school fees waived or just pay a small token sum (maybe 10 Euros a month). Is that an option near where you live?

Don't let them do this journey by themselves. Let the authorities complain but you are in the right on this imho

SSSandy's post brought back some memories ... which proof that the place isn't as safe anymore as it used to be. A friend's friend's daughter (8 at the time) caught the underground train from school to her mother's workplace on a regular basis, but one day she didn't arrive... they found her 2 months later . Investigation found out that she had been seen happily walking along a road with some man. She had been drilled never ever to go with strangers, however as she'd seen that guy every day on the train for months he wasn't a stranger anymore! Maybe you should collect stories like that and send it to the Behoerde! Will they take responsibility if anything horrible happens? I doubt it very much!

Do you have a friendly doctor or psychologist who would write a report saying that your children were not up to the journey alone, for whatever reason?

Formal intervention from people higher up the food chain seems to be the only language Gm bureaucrats understand IME.

Oh no. I hate these stories and you hear so many of them these days. When they found her, was she alive? Poor little thing

SSSandy, unfortunately they found her dumped at a riverbank, she must have been there for about a week going by the gory details... I don't even know the woman as she's a friend of a friend but I felt sick and 4 years later she still blames herself!

How can a mother ever cope with something like that?! It makes me so angry thinking how scared that little girl was and what she had to go through.

If they ever catch the b*, he'll be out again in 2 years.

they did catch him, and yes he was out not long ago, so a bit longer than 2 years. If I were the mother I'd organise a hit!

MrsBigD, how awful. That's what I am afraid of actually, its the people they see regularly who are the greatest danger.

Im now facing fines and the police coming to take my children to school by force. Everyone seems deaf to other possibilities.

Evangelical school is an interesting possibility that I wasn't aware of (we are protestant), but not sure that it would work for us. Will investigate.

Schulamt is being incredibly mean and agressive towards us. I got another dishonest letter from them yesterday. I think they have overstepped the law again, will fax it to the lawyer on Monday. WHY do they do this, when they know Ive got a lawyer. WHAT have they got against us, I really dont understand. Its all barking mad.

While I was writing the lawyer just now, dd age 2 has got herself breakfast (chocolate swiss roll), applied athletes foot cream to her feet and the carpet, and wiped her own nose using bogroll

I really feel for you. I'm presuming dc's are bilingual or in any case English speaking. Do you have Europa schools where you live (the state bilingual options)? I just spoke to a friend today whose dc attend one and she told me they'll take English speaking dc even after the school year has begun because they get in on a priority basis.

Whereabouts do you live? Where we live there are many different types of schools so we're a bit spoilt for choice maybe. Definitely try the Evangelical school, but lay it on thick and be very persistant, it's ok to call every single morning till they give in, someone I know did that. The Catholic schools take non-Catholics too but prefer dc who have been christened. When I was at the school office on Thursday, a mum was there in tears wanting to take her ds (3. grade) out of a state school. Our school is full but they took him anyway. The mum was in such a state, I think they just felt sorry for her.

Good luck battling the Schulbehörde. The thing I've found is that these bureaucratic fights here absolutely are not personal, however much it feels like it. They have their regulations and inforce them and don't give a monkeys about your actual situation. You can only get your appeal through successfully if you appeal on grounds they'll accept, so forget the distance and look for something else. I know friendships, proximity to kindergarten etc don't count but haven't a clue what does work.

At our music school there was a family with the same problem you have. The school at the end of the street which should have been the Einzzugsschule had a good reputation and was over-subscribed so they were allocated a crap school further away. They appealed and were lucky but I don't know what reasons they gave.

By the way , you don't need a Schulbehörde go-ahead for the Europa schools, if you get a place, that's it.

Why can't you get them in the nearer schools? I thought they had to take kids from the einzugsgebiet as priority?
Could you get them in early Hort so they could be taken to the far away school by you before you go to work? Alot of schools have morning groups from 7am?
Then the afternoon run could be don eby the babysitter?

Admylin, I was told that because they've changed entry age, the schools are needing to take in more kids. Now all kids born in 2000 have to start school August 2006 (dd's case, although she was 5 not 6) instead of just the 6 year olds. To cope with the extra numbers, they've had to shuffle people about. Cocopopshater's kids would ordinarily have gone to the school at the end of her street, but missed out and have been sent to one further away, where presumably there were not enough kids to justify keeping on all the staff.

I think (but who knows for sure) that's what lies behind the whole business. Lots of people have understandably been up in arms about it. Wish I still had contact to that family from music school so I knew what grounds they appealed on.

That's a good point about the early hort. Think you can drop kids off from 6.30 (rough on the kids such an incredibly early start) but it does mean you can see them safely at school before you go to work, if all else fails. Then I'd try very hard to change schools or move flat.

A lot of people do register their dc as living somewhere else so they can get them into the school they want. Would that help at all? Grandparents? Father? Godparents? Anyone really. Nothing the Schulbehörde can do about it. They don't go spying on people here like it seems they do in the UK. Once they're in the school, you can re-register back at your real address. Hassle but if it means you'll have peace of mind, do it.

How maddening and idiotic though that they can't just go to the school down the road if the school has places.

thank you v much for all feedback and stories.

There is a lot more to the story, and it does seem to be personal in my case, not sure why, although I have a few guesses.(I have dealt with deutsche bureaucracy before, but this is different) What they have done is so blatantly dishonest, that somebody somewhere along the chain MUST apply the correct regulations somewhere - just they havent done yet. This is supposed to be Germany after all!!

I dont know anyone else round here (it would have to be outside the city, now), so will probably send children out of Germany altogether, til its sorted out. There is more to it than this journey, thats just one issue.

Poor you. I know a woman who is constantly in tears because of bureaucratic problems she has - and she's German.

Hope your lawyer is good and can see a way forward for you. I know what you mean about the way they write, it can sound so obnoxious. I got one that was just unbelievable so I called the woman up and read it out to her and asked her what on earth she was writing to me like that for. Told her I was going to have to do a Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde (which is like an official complaint about the behaviour of that particular civil servant which is addressed by the top gun). That was a good word to use I can tell you, after that she was a LAMB and I got an extremely polite letter a couple of days later. Just the tone of these letters gets my back up, never mind the content.

If you're dealing with one particular civil servant and you suspect it's somehow personal, that they are misusing the powers their office gives them, I would ask the lawyer whether it's worth trying a Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde.

Let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed things work out well for you

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of course you do, ggg!

Sandy, thank you v much for this word. I will write it down, practise saying it in a casually fluent sort of way, and will probably use it at some point in the future.
The letter I got on Friday, was signed by a surname, not even a person. Probably because it was so blatantly dishonest and broke the Schulamt's own rules.

Tomorrow morning, I will probably take the children to the doctor (worms, even after taking the stuff from the pharmacist. ds1 has a patch of skin that could be scabies. Tut mir leid.). Hopefully, they will leave Germany and this tense situation the day after, and stay away until Ive sorted out a decent school for them.

cocopopshater are you sure you really really want to bring up 4 kids here on your own? You must be super-woman! I agree with you, send them out of the country if you can but unbelievable you have to resort to doing that.

Leaves me speechless (almost) , can still find a few words

And they wonder why women don't have more kids here! Err... because you make it SO HARD for us, you great ning-nongs!

Message withdrawn

hi i wouldn't let my kids do that route. far to far for your oldest never mind the 6year old. My son has just started school (nearly 5) and they have to be accompanied by an adult to and from school till the are 7! school only 5 min walk away.

gosh cocopopshater, you do have your plate full.
Fancy having to deal with a personal bueraucratic vendetta in a foreign country.

why are you staying in Germany?

I mean, I'm German, but if I found myself having to bring up my brood on my own, I certainly wouldn't move there. (Nothing against the country in particular - but the school hours must be a total nightmare if you need to work)

Remember hearing about a guy in Berlin who'd gone into an govt department armed with an axe ready to attack a civil servant. At the time, I thought he was a madman. Since having had a run-in myself, I realise he was probably an ordinary, law-abiding, tax-paying citizen pushed beyond his limits.

Not that it helps you!

Actually while I'm rabbiting on, I half-watched a documentary on immigration the other day - German family moved to Canada (everything great), Canadian family moved to Bavaria. After a month they moved to Luxembourg.