Advice for DD please re Bac or A levels - France related

[peppersquint]

Hoping someone can give both DD and I some advice on what is a slightly complicated question. I'll try not to dripfeed so as to give a fuller picture.

We have been in France for nine years - DD is fluent in French and has been in the French system since CE1.

A year ago we (DH, DD and I) came to a decision that we wanted to move back to the UK in a few years time i.e: when DD had finished lycee. She wants to go to university in the UK and I want to work again in my chosen career - I have worked in France but not in a field I was qualified to do.

DD is 16 and is now in premiere of her OIB (Bac ES) course. She has really thrived and made good friends. She is doing very well in most subjects but struggles with others (she is getting 20/20 for some subjects and average 13 for others). She likes the humanities, English, art, music etc... not so keen on science, maths, Spanish, PE or French (though French and Science will soon be out of equation as she will be taking exams next month)

However her lycee is two and half hours away - so she boards from Sunday through to Friday and faces a long train journey home every weekend. The nature of the internat means she is working very, very hard (8am til 9.30pm every day) and has very little social life beyond school.

Things moved to a head in the New Year when I got a permanent full time job in the UK (in a place we were actively looking for) It is like we are one year ahead of schedule - I have a good, well paid job with security and am living and working in the UK whilst DH and DD visit every six weeks or so or vice versa.

The issue now is that DD would like to leave lycee (after two years and one year short of her final exams) to do A levels in the UK. This is feasible as she is an academic year ahead in France so she would slip into her "natural school year" ie: lower sixth if she chose to do this.

Her reasosn for this are pretty sound - she wants to concentrate on subjects she enjoys, she wants to do more "extra curricular" things that she can't at the moment and she knows that she wants to go to university in the UK so thinks that A levels will be better preparation.

However, we are all concerned that she will be "throwing away" two years of hard work on the OIB. We know that the OIB has a good reputation and she is not exactly struggling with it. Her teachers predict good grades next year. I worry that she will regret leaving it and always wonder "how would I have done in terminale?"

Yet there is another side of me that would love it if she came out to the UK with DH and we were all together again - she has been boarding for nearly two years and I have struggled with an early "empty nest" - which was one of the reasons for looking for work.

We have said she could finish her OIB and if she is still keen on A levels do those afterwards.

Has anyone any experience of moving back to the UK at this crucial time? Anyone got any words of wisdom please?

Honestly - if you have a good sixth form lined up, let her move back and do a two year A-level course. Terminale is horrible.

Thanks Bonsoir - appreciate your honesty. I think one of the reasons this has come to a head is that she is hating the stress of premiere so terminale will be awful for her especially with the commute. Normally I am very much a "you have to finish it" type of person but in this case I feel too close to the situation to make a non-emotional decision - bloody difficult isn't it?!

I agree with Bonsoir. I think it would suit you all to be back in UK. l really think A levels will suit her with her arts leaning too. However plenty of schools do IB now in UK so would this not be a consideration? I see the horrible pressure DCs are under here in France all the time. It's the one thing that stops us from staying here long term. Sad really.

I agree too - it sounds like a good solution for her to come back and you all be together.

Also remember this is your 'last' chance to have her living with you - then she'll be off to university and that will be it.

If she's keen, why not? Her time in France is bound to help her for university applications, and it's not like she wants to go to uni in France, and so would need the Bac.

Also IMO, academic work is never a waste of time, everything she's done will stand her in good stead now or in the future, there's no value in havingt two European diplomas at the same level (Bac + A-levels).

Agree totally with Bonsoir, I have one in Terminale and one in Seconde, both good students - the baccalaureate is totally gruelling. Don't even get me started on philosophy. Do A levels - if I had the cash I'd ship all mine back to the UK for the last two years.

Should add - mine are also doing the OIB.

I have to say in terms of educational standards my preference is IB, Bac, A-levels but that's because the British system narrows down so ridiculously early. In your case your DD has thoroughly explored her options and has had a good broad grounding, plus the advantages of family life and being older rather than younger in the yea would push me to say A-levels.

Unless you can find an IB school nearby

Wow guys thank you!
I didn't expect such consensus to be honest - maybe I'm reading too much into things but feel like I'm "failing" DD by not insisting that she "stays to the end".
Also like Jamais says I do feel this is a "last chance" but would not let that sway me/or DD either way.
My issue (if it is one) - is that I know she will swim in whatever she does - OIB/IB or A levels - I just want her to be happy and feel like she has got the best out of all the opportunities she has had.
Hatty - thank you, that means the world to hear it (and I know how you feel - it is very, very hard -philosohpy is around the corner and I dread to think what that holds)

Pepper- the trouble with philo is its results seem to bear no correlation to the rest of the results and so it can pull down the moyenne. With ES, I think the coefficient for philo is 4 which is quite high for a subject that has been studied for one year. To give you an idea, DD1 has an offer from Cambridge but her average mark in philo is 9/20. I have no idea how she will perform in her philo bac but I do know several brilliant scientists who have been pulled down by this subject. If DD was in the UK, she could have chosen three subjects in which she excelled and at least she would have had a fair shot at achieving her grades.

The bac with OIB is effectively doing the French bac with English literature and history A levels tacked on. A tall order for all but the most excellent students. However, she does enjoy doing the range of subjects that she does, but gets very frustrated at the harsh grading. Hope this helps - I think I'm trying to say it's really high pressure even if you're a really good student.

Thanks Hattie - if you were in my position would you take your DD out of the OIB?
If so. would you feel like she/you had "failed"?
This is what I am struggling with (and I know it is a bit shallow)
If DD stayed the extra year she would do well but if we/she were to leave then I feel there may always be a bit of she wasn't "tough/clever/bright" enough to finish it.
I have placed such value on the Bac/OIB (and in a way it has seen us through the past few years ie:: not gone back sooner) that to "give it up" now seems very hard IYSWIM

OIB has a very high coefficient - 9 between the oral and written so if you're good at English this can mean extra points. This can obviously work both ways. I do think the British universities respect the bac and the OIB where they understand what it is. My eldest is great at English so it's better that she does OIB, my second maybe not so much but she could do very well just doing a normal bac with English as her LV1 - less pressure.

If I had the choice though I'd do A levels plus the British approach to education is based on encouragement rather than fear of failure - healthier all round I feel.

Good luck.

Rereading I don't think I answered this well. What I'm trying to say is no I wouldn't in any way consider it a failure to bail out of the OIB for any of my children. My comments for my eldest are based on the fact we have to stay in France so don't have your options.

peppersquint - my DD is currently in CM1. Her stepbrothers are both products of the French school system - her elder brother is out the other side and at university - so I have quite a lot of experience of what the French school system is like at the other end and, like hattymattie, I wouldn't consider it a failure at all if my DD decided she preferred to do the IB or A-levels rather than the French bac. She will undoubtedly do collège in the French/OIB system but I remain entirely open-minded as to which school leaving exam she takes - the important thing is that whatever she does maximises her chances of doing what she wants to do at a good British university without breaking her spirit!

My Ds dropped out of terminale inspite of having decent notes. He hated the fact that he had to study the subjects that didn't interest him and after 10 years of the french education system had totally had enough!

I was worried at the time that he was making a bad choice and wanted him to hang on until the end and get his Bac. He left school and France and now he is studying in the Uk and he's so much happier.

Sounds like your DD will do well wherever and the opportunity to go to school in the Uk will offer new insights and broaden her education.

Thanks again guys.

Hatty - I think my DD is like your eldest - her top marks are in English/History so the coefficient will work in her favour (she's currently getting 18+) This is what makes it harder in a way.

Diesel - it's encouraging to know that it can be a positive move and like Bonsoir says I don't want her spirit to be broken before she even gets to university.

I know that we are lucky to have had the benefits of the French system and the fact that she is fluent and still loves learning is a real bonus. I guess we are in a "lucky" position in that she is deciding about what is academically best for her and is not turning her back on education (though of course we'd support her in whatever she wants to do)

I think we will take a breather and wait til after the June exams and then let her decide what she wants to do once the pressure is off.

Hi pepper, just to add my voice to others saying A levels in a school close to you! Or even in a boarding school elsewhere in the UK if it comes to it.

Unlike one pp though, I would NOT consider the IB as an alternative to A levels for her... IB is somewhat like OIB in terms of study effort and in terms of subject spread, so from that point of view would likely not work for her, and then again SO SO UNLIKE the OIB in terms of pedagogical approach and learning styles, so very very hard to pick up like that, even for those whom it suits (not everyone goes for the touchy-feely, enquiring minds, crossing-over of subjects, strong humanist flavour and not-too-heavy-on-the-facts style of learning, and some usually the type to dislike philo as it happens really hate TOK which unfortunately is obligatory with the IB. Others find CAS a bit of a joke).

One of mine is doing A levels here in France and the others are doing OIB, and a huge part of me would love for them to have the extremely positive experience of some of their friends did. These students moved back to UK boarding schools for A levels, switching out of OIB and IB programmes, and reaped the benefits academically as well as in the extra-curricular domain.

I wish you and your dd the very best. Enjoy her last years at home!!!

I love these sorts of threads! Lots of very knowledgeable posters who all fundamentally agree on a complex issue!

Bonsoir - I agree!
Thank you to everyone for their very kind words and articulate arguments. I really wasn't expected such an overwhelming consensus and it makes me very happy to be a mumsnetter!

Good luck in making your decision!