baby passport enquiries

[livingzuid]

Hello,

Does anyone know who I speak to to find out if my baby will qualify for a UK passport? There's a long story behind it which is why I need to check to see, but all I can find online is information I don't understand clearly or that awful helpline that costs an arm and a leg and I doubt would be of use anyway. Embassy and consulate just direct me to the Border Agency.

I'm in the Netherlands btw. So she will have a Dutch passport which is no problem of course, but we just wanted to enquire what the possibilities were.

I posted this in chat but was advised to try here for more specific advice.

Thank you :)

It is difficult - I have just tried to find out from the Border Agency site and am confused....

FWIW - we live in Germany and DC3 was born here so has a german birth certificate. We also have a consular certificate (not an actual birth cert but a register of entry) and they have a UK passport. Both DH and I are UK passport holders.

I was told at the consulate on registering the birth that a birth certificate 'does not confer nationality'..... so DC3 is British even though they have a foreign birth certificate and could there for have a UK passport.

You might find looking at the passport application form and accompanying notes a clearer way - the border agency stuff was just too complicated!

Good luck

doradoo yes, it can be confusing to have a British consular birth certificate and no right to British nationality. It certainly confused my mum

I had a look at the accompanying notes and it was even more confusing. Nothing about my particular circumstance! Born overseas, birth registered and passport held since 2 years old because of Dad but not registered when we moved back to the UK although I lived there for over 20 years. There was something my mum was supposed to have done. Only been away for 2 and a half years.

I think it's just easier and cheaper to get the Dutch passport and leave it at that. Just made me a bit :( as I would have liked her to have both.

Send me a pm and I might be able to help. British nationality law is complicated and British citizen other than by descent is different from British citizen by descent and the ability to pass on your British citizenship will depend on many factors. Even I will probably have to look things up.

Passport does NOT confer nationality, it is simply a means of proving it. If you're a British citizen, you are one, passport or not. Same for Dutch nationality, no passport needed.

It is true a consular registration is NOT proof of nationality, it is NOT a birth certificate either and it does NOT speed up the issue of a passport. It can be useful in certain circumstances but does not need to be done at birth, can be done any time at all.

Thank you I will do :)

Born overseas, birth registered and passport held since 2 years old because of Dad but not registered when we moved back to the UK although I lived there for over 20 years. There was something my mum was supposed to have done.

Can anyone shed any further light on this? My DD was born outside the UK to 2 British parents and has a British passport. However, I have read that her children would not qualify for British citizenship if they are born outside the UK. However, there is something that says if she lives for 3 years in the UK during childhood she would be able to pass on her British citizenship to any children born anywhere. It looks like this is the same situ as OP - and I am not sure what I will need to do to "prove" DD's status if we do return to live in the UK for at least 3 years of her childhood (which we are intending to do at the moment).

Is quite important to me as our other 2 kids were born in the UK and they have "full citizenship" - is it called by descent? And I would like DD to be the same if possible, it doesn't seem right otherwise! They all have equal citizenship rights in the country where we currently live.

TIA.

Mutley - have a similar situation - DS1 born overseas to 2 British parents - but reg'd via the military - DS2 born in UK - DD1 born overseas but locally reg'd with consular cert too. Just to add complexity to the mix, I was born overseas too as my DF was military...... causes all manner of probs when trying to reg things!

Yes Mutley77 correct, but if you move back to the UK and your daughter spends 3 years in the UK as a child, then you need to register that so she becomes "British other than by descent" instead of "British by descent" she is not - different if military of course as they get treated as if born in UK.

Section 3(5) of British Nationality Act 1981

contact-ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/children/britishcitizen/livingintheuk/

So many different ways to get British nationality but, in a nutshell:
If you were born in the UK or registered or naturalized as a British citizen on the grounds of residency in the UK then you will be able to pass your nationality on to children born abroad.

If you were born abroad it is more complicated and will depend if you were born a British Citizen ' by descent' in which case you usually cannot pass on or 'otherwise than by descent' in which case you can.

If you were born abroad after 1983 and you have a consular birth certificate that means you were British at birth by virtue of your parent(s) as you can't have a consular birth certificate if you were born abroad but later became British by naturalisation or registration with the Home Office.

On your consular birth certificate there should be a box no 4'claim to citizenship' it will most likely say 2(1)a of the British nationality act 1981 or maybe 2(1)(b).

If it's 2(1)(a) that means you are a British citizen by descent and cannot automatically pass on your nationality to a child born outside the UK. There are however ways you can register the child with the home office if, eg you have lived in the uk for 3 years or the child goes to live in the UK. Info in the guide here www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-child-under-18-as-british-citizen-form-mn1

If it says 2(1)b) then you are a British citizen otherwise than by descent and can pass your nationality to children born abroad. 2(1)(b)s will have a parent who was in 'crown service' overseas at the time of their birth, eg forces or diplomatic service.

You don't need to have a consular birth certificate to apply for a passport, in fact in some countries you can't get one at all (eg Australia) but it is helpful to have the exact bit of the act under which you are British down in black and white, especially if your circumstances are a bit complicated!

If you were born before 1983 then it's not so obvious (!) and you'd need to share your parents details to work it out but happy to have a go if you pm me.

To be aware Mutley77 that you cannot 'upgrade' your daughter's citizenship from 'by descent' to ' otherwise than by descent'. The home office won't register a child who is already British ( see page 7 of the guide I linked to above ) .

She will remain a British Citizen by descent but if she has lived in the UK for 3 years at any time before the children are born ( hold on to those school reports, medical notes etc ) then, should she have children outside the Uk who don't become British through their father, she can use the Home Office registration route mentioned by cannotseeanend above to register them as British.

But if she wants them to be British otherwise than by descent she'd best have babies in the UK.

This is the registration I was thinking of which my mum did not do for me :( I will have to check my birth certificate and maybe write to the Home Office for advice.

I suppose it does not matter on a practical level as the baby will have a Dutch passport, but I was so hoping for her to have both :(

Thanks all very much for posting such great advice.

Livingzuid, do check your consular birth cert. If you are 'by descent' and therefore your baby wouldn't automatically be british at birth then as you have lived in the uk for (well over) 3 years before the child's birth you should be able to register it as a British citizen with the home office. Not cheap but it can be done at any time before the child is 18. See section 3(2) on page ten of the guide I linked to.
Not sure what registration you think your mum should have done in addition to the consular birth reg. if you had a British passport at 2 you're obviously British so there shouldn't have been any more to do. As I said, there's no way to 'upgrade' from by descent to otherwise by descent. You're stuck with it and just have to sort out the next generation by registering them or giving birth in the UK!

Hello, just found it. There is nothing on the birth certificate to say so. The section (4) just says name and surname of father.

I had best pm you I am a 1978 baby. The registration form I referred to is the one you linked. I found it when I was researching moving to NZ and what would happen if my kids were born abroad. Perhaps it wasn't available when we moved back to the UK as kids and just having a passport was enough.

Great advice, thank you.

Hi there, have been trying to get my head around all this.... Need to confirm my situation! Any help would be much appreciated!

I was born in 1987 in Spain to British parents, both with British passports. I was issued a birth certificate with a british consul and hold a British passport. The claim to citizenship on my birth ceritificate is stated as "S11(1) of British Nationality Act 1981". I am newly pregnant and living in France and have lived abroad on and off for the last 5 years. Because I am "British by descent", under the act of 1981, this means I cannot automatically pass on my nationality to my child.... correct?! So if I were to have the baby in France it would not easily be able to get a British passport?

Not sure whether it would be easier to just have the baby in the UK and avoid lots of paperwork. It's due early November and if we were to have it in France, we were hoping to get a passport asap and go back to parents for Xmas!