Hong Kong - the specifics

[Missymoomum]

DH has been given the opportunity of possibly relocating to Hong Kong, moving in August. We are already in Asia and have been to HK several times for short breaks so we know it and love it but now I'm trying to get a really good idea of whether we can make a move there work before we pursue it further with his company. The main priority of course is schools, we will be looking for places in year 3 and yr 2. I'm very concerned we will struggle with this aspect. They are in a British Curriculum school and i would like them to continue in this as we wil be going back to the UK and i've also heard bad things about the IB PYP. I see there is a new british curriculum international school opening in Kowloon and thought this may be an option? With relation to schools, i'm also trying to get a feel for where would be the best place to live. What is the average commute time for a child to school? Do the schools provide buses? I've looked at some of the websites that have been recommended on here in previous threads which are helpful but i'd like to try to get a better feel for the accomodation options that are available there. For example, here, we live on a compound with a clubhouse with swimming pool and gym and there's a great community feel . Is this possible in HK? Apartment living isn't a problem, i would just ideally like somewhere that has the same kind of community feel. Are there any particular areas, apartment blocks etc that I could look at?

Hi!

I think I can help a bit. I live on the island in a big block with facilities - there are plenty of options all over Hong Kong for that kind of living so probably one to take off your concern list. You could look at 101 Repulse Bay Road, Bamboo Grove, the Manhatten as a starter for ten if you want some ideas, there are loads more obviously

Almost all the schools run coaches and commute times of 30 minutes not unusual as often the traffic is bad. I have a friend with DC at Kellet (British school) at the Kowloon campus and her commute is about 25 mins from the Southside as the bus goes through the western tunnel and is quick. I think the new school you are referring to is Nord anglia? I don't know much about it yet, really the best thing to do is ring admissions at Kellet, see how bad the waiting lists are and then go from there (a lot of the IB schools have stronger reputations but you've said you're not sure). Housing would follow schooling I would think

If you are I Facebook there is a great group called Hong Kong Moms where there are lots of people who could help with your questions

Hi there

The 3 British schools in Hk are Kellett, Harrow and Nord Anglia, which opens 2014. All except Kellett are in Kowloon or the New Territories. Kellett has 2 campuses- pok fu lam on the island or Kowloon Bay. Harrow is on the Gold Coast. Spectacular campus with a debenture to match. However, initial feedback is that it's a great school. I have friends with children in Kellett and they all like it. Good pastoral care, cater well to all academic abilities but not selective so possibly don't stretch the geniuses. Nord Anglia is untested and weirdly unpublicised. Will fill up from the Kellett waiting list though so won't be a ghost school.

Apartment complexes are pretty common. Bel-air and Parkview are higher end. Bamboo grove, where I live, is super- central but a little tired. However, I love it for its community feel. It's significantly cheaper than the other two. Off the island, elements and Olympic are popular with expats.

Not wanting to dispute other posters but I think 25 mins south side to Kowloon is very quick/ atypical. The kid must be last pick up and the driver must have a lead foot cos I can't do it from wan chai in much less than that so i wouldnt say its typical. I would not choose to live south side if my kids were in school in Kowloon. I'd either live in sai Kung or Clearwater bay, one of the apartment conplexes in kowloon or on the north side of the island- east mid levels or happy valley.

One of the issues is that to an extent the time on bus depends on the routings. You can be relarively close and end up going round the houses for 20 mins or be relatively far and get there quickly if you're last pick up.

Hk moms is a good resource but massive pinch of salt required. lots of very stressy people on there.

I agree - School first, Housing follows. Waiting lists and debentures are eye watering but you may be use to that if you're already in Asia. Make the debenture a question your DH asks HR - many companies are stopping them or pulling back but its worth pushing for. Year 3 and Year 2 are easier than Reception or Yr 1 - my kids are FIS and my son in P2 just got a new classmate and it sounds like they had an easy time of it.

Schools will run buses - so once you work out which school pull the time schedule of the web site (they almost all of them easily available) and use it as the estate agent shows you round. We discounted one place as it was first on in the morning and last off at night so made for a very long day. We're currently first on in the morning so a longer morning commute but the kids but then first off at night so they are home at a reasonable time to get outside, do homework, after school stuff.

As said before Apartment blocks (big or small) are very easily found and many have club houses etc - or you could join one of the clubs which then of course come with their own communities. And although I live on Southside, I know friends in houses out in New Territories or Clearwater love them for the space and feel the communities are still pretty strong (many kids go to similar schools or they play in the streets which are often quiet and occupied by similar aged families.

But seriously start with the schools and take it from there.

wow seriously bad editing there but sure it all makes sense

Plain Brown Envelope - like I said, we're on the Southside (Tai Tam so you're right end pick up!) so it's just Chai Wan, Western Tunnel and then you're at Kowloon Bay (more or less). It is much much quicker (surprisingly) than the Kellet Pokfulam campus from here - and much quicker than any journey which goes through central and the crazy traffic there. Which is why I think in an ideal world if moving to HK with children you need to get your school place(s) and then get the bus routes and work backwards from there on where to live to balance the family commutes - as travel times can be really odd / not what you expect.

Ah, I think you mean eastern tunnel- that makes sense. I was thinking they were basically going from Stanley via PFL or the gap, thru western tunnel and to Kowloon bay in 25mins. That would be impressive. I know what you mean about speed vs distance though. The kids here are as quick to KB because the PFL route is windy.

And I totally mean eastern tunnel! (Just to avoid my post making no sense at all!)

DBIS is another British curriculum school. Db has probably 70:30 expat : local ratio. It has more opportunities for low rise living than some of the other expat favourites. Hk is a great posting, wherever you end up. Fwiw know people with children at Nord schools in other parts of Asia and they are happy. Having done various international schools I would only choose not for profits schools in the future. Good luck !

Thanks all that's all really helpful info. I'm going to cross reference the areas against the HK map I have. School is definitely the first thing to sort out so after the CNY hols I'll start ringing round. No experience of debentures sadly and had to look up what they were!!
Just another quick question, roughly what kind of rents would we be looking out for the popular expat places - villas and apartments? We have a pretty reasonable housing allowance where we are but it would be interesting to know what we could get for that or if we would need to negotiate a higher allowance. Thanks again!

Missy- it really depends on the individual area

-A 3 bed "village house"- 2100sq ft over 3 floors goes from c. $60k in Clearwater bay- $70k in the more popular villages. On the island you wont get a house for less than $100k and the sky's the limit.
-200sq ft apartment in bamboo Grove goes for between $70-90k depending on floor (we are low floor and fine with it though)

• Bel Air I think is around $80-90k for 1850sq ft but the efficiency is lower (i.e. the apartments feel much smaller)
• Parkview has unbelievable facilities but apartments are more expensive $90k plus.
• Discovery Bay is cheaper than the island and a little expat enclave. It's like marmite. People either love it or run screaming. One of it's quirks is that it's traffic free so accesible from central by ferry only (or bus, then MTR). This makes it very safe for kids, but some people just think it's inconvenient.

Do manage your expectations because you don't get a lot for your money. The apartments in the complexes tend to be smaller than those in "colonials" which have no facilities, but if you dont have a club, you really want to be in a complex, especially if you plan to spend summers here- HK has a higher percentage of families who do this vs. some other Asian countries, which I think is due to more 2 wage families.

Be aware that prices are quoted either inclusive or exclusive of taxes and (for apartments) management charges. Try to agree an inclusive rent where you can as protects you agains tmanagement fee increases. Difference between inc and exc can be 15% or more, so make sure you know which one you're talkiing about.

Definitely call all the schools mentioned here. I was a little misleading re the harrow debenture- the really steep one is for K1/K2 entry- Y2/3 entry is much more reasonable. You can get a nice house on the gold coast for a lot less than the island as well, so worth looking at. Reasonable commute to central via the western tunnel. (30 mins by car)

Apply for schools now. It took us almost 2 years to get DS into a school (kindy entry is the hardest) and by the time we did, we made the decision to leave. I highly recommend living in Tsing Yi, beautiful views of the mountains across the water and the air is usually a lot fresher than the main island.

Thanks again for your replies. Sorry for the delay, CNY got in the way and we went off on holiday!! Still waiting to hear from DH's work regarding terms which should be this week so we can then crack on with schools. I've been having a look at areas and a house would be a better fit for us and I quite like the look of Clearwater Bay but obviously need find out about schools first, we'll start making enquiries this week now that the schools are back after CNY.

Another quick question though, with school friends potentially spread out across HK, how easy is it to set up playdates? My 2 quite regularly have friends to play after school but is it more something that you could only do at the weekend or do most kids in a school tend to live in a particular area?

Playdates less common due to high bus take-up and quite a broad catchment. However in some villages in CWB the kids all play out after school so they'll still have kids to play with. In the apartment complexes you get a similar thing. The little ones are typically with the helpers and the older ones just playing out with whoever's there

I've never lived in HK but my Dad did for years and I visited twice, he lived in Discovery Bay, just across the water from HK Central. It was really nice and had lots of families and ex pats, only golf buggies allowed to drive around the actual apartment complex roads and near houses and shops. Clean beach and all the shops and cafes were good. Might be worth looking into. Best of luck :)

Missymoomum
Sorry for late. If you google British national curriculum hong kong, you will get a list of school ( mostly international section if the school has two sections) who run it. For example French international school in the international section follow British curriculum. So its not just 'brutish ' schools IYSWIM.
Are you children in junior or did you mean senior year 3 etc

Pollution is a very big issue in Hong Kong and must be considered before moving. If short term could be ok.

Sorry typo.. ' british..

Whatever rent you are quoted is negotiable, can request new kitchen etc repaint usually done . Rent contracts usually 2 y after which LL will try screwing you for more rent . Our nice landlady tried 40% once. Agent might not give you honest story ( ie 3 flats empty for months/years) no queue outside.
Waitlists are normal for everything, dont be out off. Suddenly you can jump from 30 to number one!