Having a really hard time deciding about French school (college) any advice, sharing of experience welcome.

[Beachcomber]

Hello. We live in France in a smallish village about 20 mins drive from a medium sized town and 10 mins from a small market town.

Our DD1 is in the last year of primary at the local village state school so we are having to look into where she will go next year to start secondary. DD is well behaved and works well has never had any issues or problems at school and has a nice group of friends - her class have all been together since maternelle and most of the parents know each other. DD has some health issues and is small for her age so can be vulnerable playground to rough and tumble.

We have three options for college and I would really appreciate any thoughts any MNers might have on them. Will try to be brief!

1. Local state school in local market town. Very big school that does college/lycée/lycée professionelle. Has been a school with problems in the past but seems to be much better now. Catchment area is big and a variety of children from local villages and towns go there. Most of DD's class will go. We have heard good things and bad things about the school. Bacc results seem pretty good to me considering it is a state school which cannot refuse to present children they do not think will pass. Bus journey is direct and takes 10-15 mins.

2. I'm going to put both the other two options together here as they are similar. Private schools (college and lycée) in medium sized town. Both with good reputations and good results (but they don't present children for the Bacc if they don't think they will pass.) - we have also heard good things and bad about both of these but suspect discipline is a bit better than in the state school. We have three reasons for hesitating over going for one of the two. Firstly the journey to the town - it takes about 40mins total as the bus stops a lot. The children sometimes can't get a bus as soon as they finish school so this means they do study time and can end up getting home pretty late. Secondly the cost, private school in France is not expensive like UK but still has a cost. We can afford it but wonder if we would rather spend the money on the children in other ways, especially because we live in the country (trips to big towns to museums, activities, trips to the UK, etc). Thirdly, although a couple of children from DD's class will probably go to both of these schools we wonder if it is just better for her to go to local state school with most of her class and have the peer support network that provides.

Personally both DH and I are probably the sort of people who would lean towards state school as we believe in supporting your local school and using a system where everyone gets the same.

We would go private though if we really thought it would be much better for DD. I'm not convinced it is though, especially with the journey.

Many thanks for any comments!

To my mind the answer depends on a couple of issues:

How is DDs French? You don't say how long you have been here. If you have concerns at all about her language then go for the private college.

What do you see as DDs future acedemically? If she is likely to carry on after lycée then I would recommend private.

If neither of these are a concern then stay in the system you are in. I am assuming that religious ground aren't an issue as you are not in the catholic system at the moment.

Don't forget when you look at the fees to take of the canteen side of the bill for comparison. We pay more in canteen bills than we do in school fees for the older DDs, and you would have that which ever school you chose.

All the colleges will have open days, make sure you go along and get a feel for the place.

Hi frenchfancy, thanks for your reply. DD was born here so French is her first language. Indeed one of the reasons the state school could be good is because they have a 'section Europeanne' where certain subjects are taught in English. DD's Engish is good but not as good as her French so we would be delighted if she were taught something like history in English. Don't really know about academic future - both DH and I went on to further education and obviously for many professions our children would need to do the same. DD doesn't know what she wants to do yet and we would support her in any choice we felt was sensible/suited her.

Do you mind me asking why you would recommend private if we expect her to go after lycée (I would say we probably do but if she wants to do a BacPro we would be fine with that too). The state lycée sends children on to universities/colleges/etc of different levels, all over France.

No religious grounds not an issue. Will look into canteen bills as we don't just have DD so need to think about budget for two children, thanks for that.

We will definitely be going to open days and really hoping that they will help us decide!!!

Do you know if school trips can cost a lot in private schools?

Thanks again for any comments. It is so hard to decide.

You need to look at what section European actually consists of. DD2 does section Euro in German, it is basically just another couple of hours a week of German, but looking more deeply into the history and Culture. It doesn't mean she does her normal subjects in another language.

In general (certainly round here) the private colleges have a more academic bent than the state ones. That does not mean in any way that children going to state don't go on to uni, or that children going to private don't go on to Bac Pro, they do. But there is a slight leaning one way or the other.

School trips here are around the 350€ mark, but are in no way obligatory. DD1 did all 4 years of college with no trips (out of choice, she did trips with another association instead), DD2 has done one exchange to Germany so far.

Which part of France are you in? This may make a difference in terms of what places are available in the école privées.

Don't have direct experience between chooing state or private in France, as my children are still small. But I would think twice about the long journey - I gather that from collège, and especially lycée, the children are just left to their own devices during free periods and at the end of the day. You may find it more practical if it's easier for her to get home?

Also, do any of these schools have class on Saturday mornings? Might be a consideration....

Sorry, not much more to add, just thought I'd throw those points in the mix!

Thanks again for replies, it's all good and gives me stuff to think about. Apparently in the European section in the state school, they do English, a subject in English and they have extra hours of English on top of that. I need to check out the details though, as you say.

I don't think the private schools in my area are really considered more academic really - I'm surprised by that, I will ask other (French) parents about that. I know the private schools tend to have slightly better results but that is IMO because they are selective when the state schools obviously aren't. Thanks for info about school trips - that sounds about the same as I have heard.

We are in an area where the private schools are not oversubscribed and (apart from one school that we are not considering) it is pretty well guaranteed that DD would get a place. The standard of the state schools in the town are pretty high so the private schools are not overwhelmed.

Bunny, the journey is definitely an issue. I don't like the thought of DD being fairly far away and perhaps left to her own devices. There is a school bus that comes to our village but they don't always correspond to exactly the time the children come out (which seems to vary depending on the day of the week). When she is older I wouldn't mind so much but they really are quite young in 6eme. If the private school were in the local market town it would be different. Hadn't thought about school on Satudays, yikes! I don't think they do but definitely need to check.

Aaaah, it's so hard.

Do you work, Beach? Will you be able to ferry her about or not? And does she have any younger siblings, who will also need transporting?

I think a lot depends on your location - it doesn't seem to be as straightforward as just opting between the principle of state and private education. Where we are (rural France, but relatively prosperous, about 50km from Paris), we and mostly everyone we know has sent their children to the local state college 8km away. The only other option is the private college slightly further away, and it seems to be only practising Catholics and those children living in villages which don't feed in to our state college, who send their children there.

Whilst the private college does seem to be more academically pushy, the state college offers a much wider selection of extra-curricular sports and theatre options, which for us was more important as academically my children are doing fine (so far at least!).

The point about free periods is very important - my daughters are in 5eme and 6eme and both have a variety of finishing and starting times throughout the week. There are 2 buses home from the state college at 1600 and 1700, but the private college is only served by the one bus at 1730.

Good luck making the decision.

What are the bad things you've heard about the state school?

DS is in 6eme in a state college. As a parent you get to decide whether they can leave when their lessons are finished for the day or if they have to stay until 16.30 and go to 'permanence'.

DS starts lessons at 07.50 every day so he has early start. I'm so glad we live within a short walk of the college. We could find an extra 1.5 hours in the day but he would have to forego both his chill out time after school and watching the news as a family. But to be fair DS is a dreamer and it takes at least 20 minutes for him to have a quick shower plus he is learning a musical instrument.

I do work but a great deal of what I do is done from home. I sometimes have to travel though and can't really be available to do the journey everyday. It would be a round trip of about an hour in the morning and same in the evening. DD has a younger sister and obviously I need to be around for her coming out of school (she is in the village school ten mins walk away).

The bad things we have heard about the state school are mostly things that happened before the current headmaster. It seems that before the school could be pretty rough and there was quite a lot of bullying. It seems that this has been cracked down on and is much improved. I have friends with children who have just started 6eme and everyone seems happy so far so hopefully those issues really have been sorted. Although one child had her bag taken in the first week although it did appear in a corridor a day later and the school handled the problem well (letting the parents know etc). Have also heard that they are not as strict as they should be with not letting children out when their parents have not given permission. Have heard this from one parent though so don't know how true it is.

I may just be being an over protective mother worried about how her PFB will get on in a big mix of kids (our village school has no real issues and all the families know each other at least by sight).

DD plays guitar and I really don't want her to have to stop that sort of thing and not have plenty time for chilling plus homework (I hear they get quite a lot in 6eme) because she is having a long journey to and from school.

I think in my heart I want her to go to the local state school, I'm just concerned about how big it is and any potential roughness I guess.

Stay close to home if you possibly can. School days are long in French colleges and lycées and there is lots of homework. A long commute is unworkable IMO

I think that is my gut feeling Bonsoir. Much better to have a 10-15 minute journey with a couple of bus options than to have 30-40mins with buses not always corresponding to the end of the school day.

If the state school was really terrible, it might be worth it, but I don't think it is terrible; just normal with a big mix of kids and socio-economic groups. I might be get too hung up on its reputation for roughness in the past.

You can always try a school further away for lycée, if you think that you need to do so when the time comes. They are still so very young when they start college and just the thought of seven years of a long commute can be very draining.

Journey is probably going to be the deciding factor. If you live somewhere it snows or gets very hot in the summer those would be pretty powerful reasons for me to choose a school closer to home.

There's nothing to stop you switching out for lycée, or indeed if halfway through 6ème your DD isn't coping.

Yes, we would have the option to change later when DD is older. We do get snow most winters and even so a longer journey is going to be grim in winter.

This is all very helpful thank you - the choice definitely isn't just about the results the school gets, it is most definitely also about DD's quality of life.

It is reassuring that no-one has come on and said 'absolutely don't go for state school if you have any chance of going private'.

The state versus private debate is very local in France. In Paris the state schools are mostly a lot less nice than the private schools (with notable exceptions) and 40% of children go to private schools. But there are plenty of areas in France where Catholic private schools are not systematically creaming off a large share of the more motivated families.

Spot on bonsoie. Here DS will go private for maternelle and primaire because our social circle is fairly focused around it, so that's where his friends will go and it's a nice little school. I wouldn't send him to private college or lycée here but they would definitely be my first choices in Paris, the bilingual issue aside.

The state versus private debate is very local in France.

This is very true. I thought you might all come on and say 'how can we possible help if we don't know the schools in question'