Should we move to Brussels?

[StiffyByng]

Sorry, I know this has probably been done to death already.

We have an opportunity to go to Brussels for 2/3 years. We have an 11 year old just starting year 6, a 2.5 year old and a 4 month old. We would like to have another child.

It would be working for an institution so relocation, rent and school fees paid. I would not work while out there.

There are LOADS of things we don't know about how it would all work, so apologies for any wrong assumptions but...

Pros:

We could rent out our house for around 1k a month more
than our mortgage.

Our 11 and 2 year olds would have brilliant opportunities to learn another language well.

We need a break from the treadmill of life. I hate the idea of going back to my job after maternity leave but can't defend staying at home here. I could have another baby in a cost neutral way.

We could experience life in a different country, in a nice house.

Both DH and I have been trying for ages to improve our French and immersion might help.

We live in a catchment black spot for primary and secondary schools so coming back to make in-year applications might be easier.

Cons:

Will I be lonely?! I have my friends here. I know a couple of people in Brussels.

How easy will it be to get the kids into schools in Brussels-might it be a nightmare?

Our house is cluttered and sorting it out for rental will be hard, hard work.

I don't know what having a baby in Brussels would be like compared to here-I had lovely NHS homebirths over here and get the impression it's very medical over there.

Would we actually talk French?

In short, please help me even start working out how to make this decision?

Yes really do check your entitlement to international school fees which go beyond 30k per year or European school. European school enrolments are done according to a specific timetable, you'll find the info online, you can request a specific school but are most likely to be allocated Laeken, you get to know which one in about May.

Well I'm happy to be beige, that really is a moronic comment.

the BCT is a great resource and you will meet a lot of people if you go to the groups, but you can also be incrediibly lonely with very small children and i did not find that the BCT gave the support it could have done. maybe because everyone keeps saying it is so easy to make friends in belgium that someone feels like a freak when they don't and add lack of sleep and PND to the equation...
it is hard work, you may or may not make friends easily, lots of people come and go, they may not go to the same playgroup week in week out. it took me a long time to find the people who i clicked with and not the superficial, "isn't everything wonderful" people.
once the children were at school it got easier, but there is nothing like the loneliness of a crowd.....

i will add that it depends very much on where you live and in the more expat areas i think the yummy superficial mummy count is much higher.....

To be honest, the chips in Belgium are beige. And with mayonnaise added, they appear even more beige.

But I disagree that everyone wears beige. Brown and grey are far more popular.

Yes, Portofino. I thought just that at the time too. "This is ridiculous," I thought, "everything's beige." as I wandered around wearing red and green, thus sticking out like a sore thumb.

StyffyByng, I'm glad you've seen the non-beige bits. I'm glad there are non-beige bits!

It was about 20 years ago. Keida, brown and grey, eh?

Yes. They have become more extrovert in the past 20 years.

I think the thing about the BCT is that it gives you an instant network of playgroups and coffee mornings. There is never a day when, provided you have transport access, you can't get yourself and your kids out of the house. Who you meet when you get there and whether you like them or they like you is another matter! But that is the same anywhere isn't it?

The worst days I had when I felt like a friendless hopeless moose with dysfunctional children were the days I stayed in the house.

I have also found friends at the gym, at playgrounds, at weightwatchers () at my kids schools, through work, through my uni group. It's a slow process. I am not a natural people person so it has taken me far longer than I am sure it takes other people who are more gregarious. But I am very settled now.

BCT as a place to go with small kids where everyone else had small kids was a godsend when I first stopped working.

Ps I am in a beige mac today. Perhaps I am channeling my inner Belgian. Erm no. It's just a nice coat.

yes it is a great resource, but when it is all you have and you cannot go to the gym, uni, work, children are too young for school, nursery etc and you are virtually a single mother as husband works such long hours then until you make those goods friends life can be very lonely. I came across very few people who would say how hard things were and hence one existed in a casual, small talk environment where all conversation by its very nature was pretty superficial about what the baby is eating/ sleeping etc - i am afraid that did my head in after a while!

all these things can happen wherever you are but the difference with being expat is that often when people are in a place for a shortish time then you need to fit in very quickly - that is certainly what my local coffee group was like at the time - a chance for a clique of people to meet at other people's houses for coffee and very little interest in making outsiders feel welcome

i have had some very lonely times in belgium and it is only for me when i stopped seeing people because we happened to both be expats and have a child roughly the same age and started to see people for me - that is when things got a lot better.

i agree that the BCT provides a very good resource but it could in my experience do a lot better in providing support and recognising how hard for some people are the circumstances i have described.

With a child in BSB, it is a very sociable school for non working parents, if you want to join in, walking group, trips, parents' office, language classes, coffee mornings.

If you chose a local school for the 2.5 year old where you're allowed in each morning, you'd get 30 minutes where you could talk to other parents in the classroom, some schools have 40-50% non Belgian international mix of parents, many mums who are not working, unlike Belgian mums who are far more likely to work. It's another opportunity to meet people.

Swingingthelead that is all very well but the BCT is not a counselling service. What do you expect them to do to take in every single situation from a very broad group? They are just a bunch of parents doing a voluntary job.

I know where you are coming from. I have a husband with mental working hours who spends weeks and weeks at a time in the US. My first son had months in hospital with an immune problem. I had a mental job too. Then a miscarriage then I got sacked for going part time. It was a horrible time. But I still managed to enjoy a chat with a few pleasant ladies and I am not good at small talk! And I figure that lot would have been horrible anywhere although did wish my mum was on hand. Many people have many different versions of hard. It isn't the BCT's role to deal with it.

I acknowledge life can be difficult with small kids. But for example the gym I go to had a crèche to take babies from 3 months and that gave me immediate and very real respite. The BCT is not the only resource but it is a good one.

The BCT isn't a counselling service, but they do their best. They can point you in the direction of professional english-speaking counsellors.

If you follow the BCT antenatal course, you will be assigned someone to follow you up after the birth - an early days supporter (I used to be one) - for the new parent to have someone to phone up and talk to. These are entirely voluntary jobs.

I led one of the BCT groups for years and I did everything I could to make people feel welcome, meeting new members for coffee so they would at least knew someone before going to a meeting.

But unfortunately there will always be some people who don't enjoy it. I remember meeting someone who was very disappointed because she felt that she didn't have anything in common with the other mothers because she worked. I did try and explain to her that some of the mothers in the group worked, including myself at the time, and we organised activities at different times to suit different people. I didn't hear from her again.

ok...can't comment from a parenting perspective although there is loads odds expertise here but lived there from 13-18. Went to st johns international school and bsb. Loved it. As regards bilingualism you will have a much better shot if you stick to the French speaking area and not the brit enclaves of tervuren and with your kids st European or international schools. BSB followed the British curriculum. I think a lot of this has already been said but talking from the teenager perspective! A fantastic opportunity, wish you luck! ( Moules frites, cherry flavoured Kriek, gorge architecture, excellent night life... sentimental sigh )

Hi,
I think we are in the same situation here. I am wondering whether we still stand a chance to find a place in an international school. But we cannot move before November.
I was looking at BISB for the more familiar atmosphere and maybe looking for a house around that neybourhood (Etterbeek) so I could actually walk to work and school; that would be nice for a change. But I'm not sure to find a place anywhere for the children, so I'll probably just see where we find a school and then look for a house. My children are 4 and 9.
Good luck

The Montgomery/Schuman/Mérode areas near BISB and BJAB are very expensive, a 4 bed house will set you back at least 2k, will cost more in fuel as older properties in the main, you do pay a premium for living there, but so many people get their housing paid for as well as school fees. It's very easy to get places at BISB and BJAB - both similar size, they only really differ in emphasis on strictness, BISB is the result of an argument between the former head (just retired) of BJAB and her deputy head who broke off and founded BISB with a number of ex-BJAB parents who disagreed with the former head, this happened maybe 10 years ago. Do remember in 2 years time, your eldest child will have to leave to another school if you choose either of these schools and also that neither teach in French, they teach limited French as 2nd language, very much "expat bubble" schools like all the international schools in Brussels, your children will have the advantage of being able to take part in activities after school in French. It's an excellent area to live in terms of "inner city" for children, great swimming pool and sports centre in the area, plenty of playgrounds, child friendly places to eat, football clubs and tennis clubs.

That sounds excellent but to say the truth, coming from a developing country, anything sounds good! Well, the situation we are at now is not much different, small school, expat bubble. And I'm not sure for how many years we would be living in Brussels anyway so I can't really decide very much on that criteria also, I'm afraid. We just try to at least find a good school for the children and preferably in a language where they could get some continuity since with all the changes it would be good to find something to hold on to. Thank you for your help; it's really great to know we have so many good schools available even if we are coming late.

BISB is in 2 separate buildings with a 5 minute walk apart 3-7 in one building, 7-11 in the other building. BJAB is all together. Both are small family focussed, both follow the English national curriculum, both have 120 or so kids, both have a mix of English mother tongue and speakers of other languages. The retired head of BJAB is a former UK armed forces and parents used to say it reflected in how she ran the school, but with a new head, the emphasis might have changed a bit. I really don't think for parental feedback that they are amazingly different schools. I'd be happy with either, if I had school fees paid.

If both BJAB and BISB have places and you fancy living close to work, unless you really favour one school over another, I'd hold off handing over the application fee until you've found somewhere to live. Mind you, both schools are not really that far from each other or Schuman, they are connected by number 7 tram, BJAB is also near line 1 metro and 39/44 trams too, so you can be there in minutes from many areas.

BJAB is very full in Year 1 and Year 2 this year.

Thank you. My children will be going to Pre-K (at least how they call it here at this school, my daughter will be turning 5 in January) and 4th grade. I'll give it a try at the three schools and it's a good idea, as you say, to search for a house in parallel to that.

Jan 2009 = Reception Year at BISB, BJAB and BSB
1 Sept 2004 - 31 August 2005 = Year 4 at these schools
1 Sept 2003 - 31 August 2004 = Year 5 at these schools

Year 6 is top year in BISB and BJAB. BSB goes to Year 13.

That's different from here then... good to know, just to be prepared. In my daughter's case I suppose she would probably be going to reception year, that's good then. But my son (January 2004) will most likely remain in 4th grade. I don't see why they would skip one year in his case...

January 2004 means Year 5 at BSB, it's not really a case of skipping a grade, you would not normally have a school following English national curriculum putting children up or down years without good reason - I've known it to happen for children out of school for a year for cancer treatment for example, but the policy is to have the child with peers, the English curriculum caters for variation in ability.

I have a child who you could say skipped a grade going into the Belgian system, but in fact she was just unlucky to have gone from one of the oldest in her year to the very youngest due to being born in December. She managed just fine.

It means your 9 year old would be in primary for 1 year and 2 more terms, before transferring to secondary, so bear in mind to have an education in English in the Brussels area, he'll have to change school quickly if you choose BISB or BJAB, but is likely to change school to BSB with several others in the same class. BSB at least has a bilingual Year 5 class and a bilingual Reception class too with a super French teacher and I'm certain there is currently space in that class too. It's the wrong way to work if you want to live close to Schuman, but BSB is the only place with English curriculum at primary and secondary level and also bilingual classes.

January 2004 means CM1 in the lycée Francais in Uccle so still the 2nd last year of primaire there.

January 2004 means 4e primaire in the Belgian local system, 3rd last year of primaire there. It's an extra year in primaire in the Belgian system.