Legal Action Against an International School?

[pupsiecola]

Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had any experience of this, or any legal knowledge?

DS' school in Asia has sent us his MAP test results that show he has done quite a bit better than the average pupil?!!

We are utterly confused/pissed off/exasperated. I emailed the Board of Cognita a week ago. Not even an acknowledgement. I am going to email the Minister for education in Singapore and the IB Ombudsman. Just wondering if I have any other options?

I am looking for some fees back seeing as how they bullied us into leaving and the ramifications that has had on us financially, emotionally and as a family have not been trivial.

Thanks for any advice.

Is there a back story here? Sorry, I'm a bit confused otherwise!

Hi Shakey,

Didn't want to post the whole hoo-ha again as didn't want to bore people! But yes, I can see that it doesn't make a lot of sense if you've not read my other posts!

In a nutshell we believe that the boys school in Singapore let us down badly and handled our situation very badly indeed. We ended up leaving Singapore after a year (instead of 2) to come back to the UK as a result.

DS2 (8 years old) was very unhappy there and they went through various "diagnoses" from "he's depressed" to "he's naughty, let's punish him" and finally "he has a learning disability and you either get him assessed or you leave, and if you don't think he has then you're in denial". What we felt all along was that a) he didn't fit the crazy work ethic of the school (is more EQ/arty/drama than IQ) and b) they sapped his confidence with their incessant need to put him a goldfish bowl and watch his every move. He's never been a naughty child. He's easy peasy to parent. But he became withdrawn and unwilling to do much work. It got so stupid - we were called in for monthly then 2 weekly meetings.

In the end, in March we decided we didn't really have any other choice and we secured places for the boys here in the UK. But DH is commuted between here and SE Asia until December. We were their off our own backs so no financial or practical help/support with anything.

And then last week we got this MAP report emailed through and actually it seems his results are pretty good.

I just really wanted to know if anyone has taken legal action against a school for incompetence...

TBH, I don't know what you want to achieve. Even if you get a pay out (which I doubt) you can't buy that year back.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.
FWIW, I think my DDs school has failed her for the last year. Since it's the same school my DH teaches at, we were in a tricky situation.
It's righted itself in a way, we are leaving shortly. She won't get that year back, but we can move on.

I agree with kreecher just put it down to experience. It's unlikely you would get anywhere with legal action and given that you are backi in the UK now not worth the hassle. Sometimes a school just does not fit a child. Sorry to hear your DS went through such a bad year though hope things are better for him now. Where are you off to Kreecher?

We're Norfolk bound or . DD is clueless ATM thank goodness.
It hasn't been the best year of our lives.
Onward and upward.

Thanks. I guess part of me doesn't want them to get away with treating DS/us this way. Part of me wants some of the £32k back. I guess it's hard to just move on and let it be.

...and if no one holds these companies accountable for the misery they can cause then they will just carry on doing what they're doing. Sure, I'm not going to change the world, but I do believe quite strongly in standing up for things that matter (to me).

Did they say he wasn't achieving academically? The school sounds like it mishandled perceived behavioural issues.

Was there no option to change schools there? I'm assuming it is a Cognita school? Who's the columnist in the S Times education section (I forget his name. Isn't he on the Cognita board?

I don't think you will get very far though. These are businesses with deep pockets for lawyers. Everything will be documented to the enth degree with back-up paperwork. Sorry but the little guy won't win in this case.

Concentrate on the current schools and making this a happy experience for your kids.

I'm sorry that this is still haunting you but I agree that you should move on. You will know from living in Singapore that most complaints are met with a shrug and you will probably be fobbed off with a 'you picked the wrong school' type comment.

What evidence did you get from the school that your ds was 'naughty' or not doing well before you pulled him out? What were his other test results like (even in class tests?)

The school will just cite examples of other pupils and their glowing achievements. I know kids who are happy and thriving there. If you had known about your ds' good map results, would you have kept him there? Probably not as he was unhappy. These results don't change the outcome so what's the point?

There is a difference between "behaviour" and achievement.

I would have been very angry about this situation too. However I don't know how you stand legally wrt getting part of your fees reimbursed. I am afraid you might need to obtain legal advice if this is the route you want to take.

I would not email the Minister of Education and the others. For a formal letter of complaint, I would always send a letter by post and/or by fax.

You do of course have the possibility to write a review of the school to let prospective parents know of your negative experiences. I suppose you would do this after exploring other options you mentioned.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with this school.

I agree re behaviour and achievement being different. He did not behave badly at school. He withdrew and felt completely lost. They went through various "diagnoses" of this. They offered no real learning support. They said he hadn't done enough work/wasn't at a standard sufficient to enter the next grade. Yet they wouldn't hold him back either. And this is the crux of the matter. Because now we find out he was actually making good progress. So the criteria we made our huge decision on (as advised by the school) seems to be total BS. The other options we had were Dover Court ("normal" learning support in the classroom) but they had a waiting list. SAIS recommended two schools for extreme special needs cases. WTF. DS would do things like go missing for 10 or 20 minutes at a time. He was so unhappy. One day he told me he hid outside the classroom next to a book case for about 20 minutes and no one saw him?! It was obvious they just didn't want to teach him. So we came back here where he is much happier and his very experienced teacher (in her 50s, 4 kids herself, a grandmother, absolutely lovely) thinks there is nothing wrong with him other than confidence.

Thanks for the comments. I will carry on as planned and see if I get anywhere although I agree, not much hope. But feel I have to do it.

But in the meantime yes, of course I am focussing on settling into life here. Actually loving it on the whole and the DCs are very happy.

From the school's pov, deliberately hiding for 20 minutes will count as bad behaviour. And they will probably have other incidents they can cite. And it will get very messy. You, and DC, may find this stressful and emotional, so you need to think carefully about whether you are really up for a legal fight with no certainly of winning.

Also, despite Cognita being an international group, your contract will probably be under Singaporean law and you will need to pursue it in the courts there. Is DH going to be able to do this in the time has remaining? Or have you worked out a way of doing so from UK? Have you taken local legal advice on the strength of your case?

Poor kid. The school sounds terrible. Write by all means - keep it factual and unemotional. Ask them to answer each point. Get someone else to read it before you send it (to take out comments like 'you are a bunch of shits'). They will only get defensive if you go on attack mode. Do you think it was the teacher or the system that let you down?

Don't expect a refund though - they are as tight as a duck's bum.

Believe me you need to think about what you have and not what you've not had, I'd give my life to swap places into a better position now and have this as the biggest of my worries, and when I think how bad my life is, and it's bloody bad, I try to look around at what I still have and that some people are in a worse position in their lives than I am.

Concentrate on the good things in your life now and not on the things in the past which have gone wrong, no matter how hard they are to forget.

Thanks everyone. It's not stopping me/us moving forward per se and DC doesn't know I'm pursuing this. It feels more like a loose end and an injustice; just feel I'm doing some due diligence. The school isn't all bad. DS1 was reasonably happy there. But it def failed DS2.

I have been through more than my fair share of crap in my life. But ultimately I'm a positive person and I'm a fighter. We are counting our lucky stars, believe me. Love the house we are renting, the school we are at, the area and DH gets to transfer to UK on same salary. I am very relieved and grateful. The letter I sent to school was very factual and asked for answers to these questions.

I think the teachers at the school are mostly very good. The management, particularly Head Of Elementary is what's letting it down. (I am not alone in experiencing this. I also think they have grown far too quickly and are also trying to add so much to the curriculum rather than build a solid foundation).

Hello pupsiecola it sounds like you have had a nightmare with that school. From experience, I would say there is no chance of success with an International School (although I don't know the ins and outs of this particular school) - so many of them operate outside the law of any country.

Also, and I really don't mean to offend you here, I am just offering an argument that the school might take. Just because your son had a good MAPs result, it does not mean he was performing to this level in the school. We use MAPs tests and so many students get results that do not match their performance in general because, as with any other tests, it is based on how they perform only for that day (hour).

I can understand your need to right the wrong - make sure the board are aware of the issue, and if the school have any accreditations, you could look at approaching those companies.

Hello, sorry to hear about your experience.

I do so understand where you are coming from in holding the school to account, but would agree that the legal route is highly unlikely to succeed and just drag you all down through a new beginning. What I have done in my situation in a different culture has been to write very clear letter to Director of School/Board, to my husband's employer (a major provider of pupils to school) and to copy to external body (e.g. Good School International Guide consultant, or international school membership body), so there is a trace for potential future pupils too and there is a trail for future inspections to probe on. Being 'shamed' to an external body/professional body of peers can have an impact in changing behaviour for the future too, and at least means it isn't kept 'secret'.

And a small ceremony for you and the kids works wonders too. On leaving our school which never heard our perspective and always said it was us not them we drove past several times shouting Poopooo P+++(the school name). Had to do an extra two visits after hours. Sat in the school carpark blowing raspberries. Considered dropping a rude comment on cricket lawn in cress seeds but decided against it. Children found it very satisfying to think of ways they could have their say in rebellious ways (and then not...) Good luck.

Governance of international schools is a real issue, IMVHO. There is often no recourse for dissatisfied customers.

I think you need to forget it tbh. If you sue then you're going to rack up legal bills and even if you win you might not get awarded costs. Also afaik Singapore law is based on uk law. If you sue you can only be awarded a settlement in respect of actual financial losses you have suffered as a result of their negligence( assume that's what you're thinking of as opposed to breach of contract). These costs must be direct, so for example you wouldn't get the costs of moving home because the school's actions didn't force you to leave Singapore. You cannot get a payment for 'pain and suffering/ emotional distress, as in some countries.

I am sorry this has happened and I'm sure you must be very pissed off. In your position, I would want my feedback to be taken seriously, can you contact the head of school as well as the board to see if your DH can get a meeting with them? Also, do you know if they are independently assessed by anyone? Other Cognita schools quote CfBT as their assessor. Might be worth finding out and giving feedback to them?

Thanks for all the replies. I did copy the head teacher on my mail too. And head of Asia.I said I wanted a reply in 5 working days.I didn't heard back so wrote again saying who I was going to write to next. In the next hour I received three replies; one from the head and two from Directors saying sorry I hadn't heard and they will investigate. Funny that.

I'm not looking for return of moving costs or even a full year's fees. Even just the fees for the 6 weeks of school we missed would be good. And actually what I would really like is for the member of senior management who dealt wit it so badly to be educated for future issues.

I don't know how far I will go with it. He broke his leg on Monday and we have been in hospital since. He has a full cast on to thigh and cannot bear weight for 6 weeks. Never rains but it pours eh... . I will see how they respond.

Oh bummer !!! What a nightmare. Re the school, it sounds like what you really want is an acknowledgement that they screwed up, so if I were you I would continue to hound them mercilessly but would stop short of racking up legal fees as unlikely to be in your interests.